Nope.. 6 rivals (7 civs including yourself)Danthor said:
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News: WOTM-03 Pre-Game Discussion
- Thread starter Gyathaar
- Start date
Some good, some bad for my tastes. I like the non-financial civ for a change...too many of those lately...and epic / monarch is nice. Not fond of rocky + aggro AI + crowded map...plays well into the UU for an early expansion via IW, I guess.
Smart thing would be to ignore early religions and go worker / military techs with worker 1st build. Think I will be stupid and try the Buddhism gambit since we have a 2f2c square 1south of starting position. Try to leverage a quick temple, priest specialist, and Oracle...get most of the religions and spread a couple of them selectively with missionaries to set the AI's against each other rather than me.
Probably won't work, but I'll give it a shot.
cas
Smart thing would be to ignore early religions and go worker / military techs with worker 1st build. Think I will be stupid and try the Buddhism gambit since we have a 2f2c square 1south of starting position. Try to leverage a quick temple, priest specialist, and Oracle...get most of the religions and spread a couple of them selectively with missionaries to set the AI's against each other rather than me.
Probably won't work, but I'll give it a shot.
cas
indeliblemerson
Chieftain
I don't see any screenshot of the start map. Why?
indeliblemerson
Chieftain
I don't see any screeshot of the start file. Why?Gyathaar said:WOTM 03: Celtia
The starting screenshot is here (Click for larger version)
My guess is that your work is blocking all webpages that contain the word gameindeliblemerson said:
Murky
Deity
Here's a practice save for use with the HoF mod.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Anybody can please explain what this "BLAKE" is?
I've seen for the first time in the list of changes of 2.08 patch.
Don't answer "an english poet", please (i love The Tiger).
I've seen for the first time in the list of changes of 2.08 patch.
Don't answer "an english poet", please (i love The Tiger).
kojimanard
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2002
- Messages
- 238
As I understand it, Blake is a poster at Poly who designed an improved AI, and some of his work was incorporated in the warlord's patch.BLubmuz said:
BLubmuz said:
Read the following thread. He explains quite a bit of his thought process on developing a better AI.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=191685
Danthor
Warlord
Gyathaar said:
uuups!!
as I understand it from reading the thread BLAKE has posted in CFC about his changes...most people seem to think Monarch level now plays like emperor+ because of the higher intelligence of the AI combined with its monarch bonuses.
Considering the possible ability to have both 'swordmen' and axemen with copper though, I'm definitely gonna be going for early military.
Considering the possible ability to have both 'swordmen' and axemen with copper though, I'm definitely gonna be going for early military.
A'AbarachAmadan
Deity
I think the 2.08 patch has some interesting changes, such as Math required for Civil Service and fixed Vassel States. I didn't see barbarians listed, so I'm assuming we're back to normal this time? I think the extra number of rivals will be interesting, not sure how I'm going to play that, but think some early military expansion is in order in any case. Not sure yet where I plan to move to start. I really like 2S as it then brings 6 hills into my capital, which would just be a ridiculous amount of construction capability, though I'd like to have woods in my sites also for chopping, which would be lost for the early game. Hmmm.
godotnut
Inverted Unicycle
The AI is indeed better, but I don't know if I would personally say Monarch is now like Emperor.
A couple specific things I've noticed since the patch: it's worth remembering that Barbarians can and will build spearmen now (no chariot-rushing early barb cities) and the AI definitely is not as stupid in how it used to sacrifice huge numbers of troops at a unit or two fortified in a wooded hills square, for example. In general, the AI stays within their cities more when attacked--it's harder to lure them out. It's irrelevant to this particular game, but this means Quecha rushing is nowhere near as easy.
They AI seems to tech slightly faster too, and it's harder to fund a continual 100% science bar with trades for gold when you are way ahead in tech. The AI is stingier with its cash.
Also, I settled on a gold square in one game recently, and I DID NOT receive the plus one gold bonus that I used to in my city start square.
A couple specific things I've noticed since the patch: it's worth remembering that Barbarians can and will build spearmen now (no chariot-rushing early barb cities) and the AI definitely is not as stupid in how it used to sacrifice huge numbers of troops at a unit or two fortified in a wooded hills square, for example. In general, the AI stays within their cities more when attacked--it's harder to lure them out. It's irrelevant to this particular game, but this means Quecha rushing is nowhere near as easy.
They AI seems to tech slightly faster too, and it's harder to fund a continual 100% science bar with trades for gold when you are way ahead in tech. The AI is stingier with its cash.
Also, I settled on a gold square in one game recently, and I DID NOT receive the plus one gold bonus that I used to in my city start square.
It might be a good idea to research Alphabet early (or use Oracle to get it). Plenty of AI, lot of trade opportunities. An interesting start might be: Polytheism, Priesthood, Writing, Alphabet (Oracle), (Literature?). This would probably imply delaying the worker, building warriors/scouts instead to contact civs, search huts, fog bust, steal workers (?). How fast can the capital build the Oracle (with unimproved terrain...)?
Perhaps barbs will not cause too much trouble on a crowded map. And the Great wall gives only one GP point now, it won't help that much.
Perhaps barbs will not cause too much trouble on a crowded map. And the Great wall gives only one GP point now, it won't help that much.
Has anyone played the "practice" save above?
If so...thoughts on Monarch & new patch/AI?
Although not a Monarch player yet, I find that I swiftly fall behind in Tech and blow my economy trying to stay in the initial "power" race. The "real" WOTM should be fun.
If so...thoughts on Monarch & new patch/AI?
Although not a Monarch player yet, I find that I swiftly fall behind in Tech and blow my economy trying to stay in the initial "power" race. The "real" WOTM should be fun.
perhaps the further improved AI(BLAKE has improved the AI even more since his work was included in the patch) is what people were talking about as making monarch equal to emperor.
I'd say that I'm perfectly happy with an improved AI, it may make the game harder, but it eliminates some of the 'exploits' that used to rely on AI stupidity. Since I was really bad at doing that, perhaps I'll do comparatively better now
I haven't played the test save yet, although I will if I ever get time to(not likely though), and I'll test out my strategy of going for a religion followed by Mining/BW and going for early enough Gallic Swords and Axemen that I can do some fast damage.
I'd say that I'm perfectly happy with an improved AI, it may make the game harder, but it eliminates some of the 'exploits' that used to rely on AI stupidity. Since I was really bad at doing that, perhaps I'll do comparatively better now
I haven't played the test save yet, although I will if I ever get time to(not likely though), and I'll test out my strategy of going for a religion followed by Mining/BW and going for early enough Gallic Swords and Axemen that I can do some fast damage.
I tried a couple of practice games up to 100ADish to get a feel for the patch, and also to see whether CS slingshot is achievable. Several things I found:
1. It looks like you can no longer see troops on board enemy ships. It's hard to tell for certain, but a couple of times I had troops land unexpectedly on my shores and the only plausible source each time looked like a galley that I'd ignored because it looked empty. That's going to make defending coastal cities by rushing troops to them only as needed a lot harder.
2. The AI does seem to tech a fair bit faster than on vanilla civ. Dunno about the late game, but based on the early game I now tend to agree with the people who say 2.08 monarch plays like vanilla emperor. Also a couple of times I've noticed several workers simultaneously around a newish city in a way that I'd do but I've never seen the AI do before - that makes me think the AI is using its workers and workable tiles more effectively. The AI is still pretty stupid at warmongering but not as stupid as before (It's less likely to suicide troops in battles with poor odds).
3. Direct CS slingshot with the oracle looks far too risky, certainly without gold in the start location - the AI is likely to have built the oracle before you can research COL.
4. Great-prophet CS slingshot is now much harder to do: You can't do it by by-passing masonry any more as the prophet now offers to research masonry ahead of CS, presumably because of masonry now being given a higher religious weight. Seems the only way to do it is to get theology first (perhaps from the Oracle).
5. A consequence of 4 is that also means that notagoodname's list of great-person tech preferences at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4135261&postcount=13 isn't totally accurate any more. I'm hoping the masonry thing is the only thing that's wrong and it's still good apart from that. Anyone know for certain btw?
6. One good thing though - early religion seems to be very achievable. I'm guessing the AI doesn't prioritize it as much as before.
1. It looks like you can no longer see troops on board enemy ships. It's hard to tell for certain, but a couple of times I had troops land unexpectedly on my shores and the only plausible source each time looked like a galley that I'd ignored because it looked empty. That's going to make defending coastal cities by rushing troops to them only as needed a lot harder.
2. The AI does seem to tech a fair bit faster than on vanilla civ. Dunno about the late game, but based on the early game I now tend to agree with the people who say 2.08 monarch plays like vanilla emperor. Also a couple of times I've noticed several workers simultaneously around a newish city in a way that I'd do but I've never seen the AI do before - that makes me think the AI is using its workers and workable tiles more effectively. The AI is still pretty stupid at warmongering but not as stupid as before (It's less likely to suicide troops in battles with poor odds).
3. Direct CS slingshot with the oracle looks far too risky, certainly without gold in the start location - the AI is likely to have built the oracle before you can research COL.
4. Great-prophet CS slingshot is now much harder to do: You can't do it by by-passing masonry any more as the prophet now offers to research masonry ahead of CS, presumably because of masonry now being given a higher religious weight. Seems the only way to do it is to get theology first (perhaps from the Oracle).
5. A consequence of 4 is that also means that notagoodname's list of great-person tech preferences at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4135261&postcount=13 isn't totally accurate any more. I'm hoping the masonry thing is the only thing that's wrong and it's still good apart from that. Anyone know for certain btw?
6. One good thing though - early religion seems to be very achievable. I'm guessing the AI doesn't prioritize it as much as before.
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to discover this.. it is one of the changes in the patch that isn't mentioned in the patch messageDynamicSpirit said:
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