P666-04 : Yet Another Trash Game

CAM_H said:
fbelintani (who really should lose that "Newbie in training" tag on the basis of the strong plays to date imho)
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That stands for my late game. I started too many games. And the openings in the SG's out there are overtalked a bit. So, a newbie DOES learn from them. :)
After 100AD you're gonna see what I'm talking about... In mice's many Leaders Game I'm still to reach turn 250... And It's taking me more than 2 weeks to play 50 turns. ;)
But thank's anyway! :)

Öjevind Lång said:
Well, I didn't need a crystal ball to see that my game would "get the honours".
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The "problem" here was the game objective. If we were not going for conquest, your game would be cool. I never did a Monarchy slingshot with the Oracle. Usually it's Metal Casting/CoL/Construction... Let's see how different we can play this time. The only big issue I see here is that AI will get Feudalism soon... And we will have a hard time without maces!

People are already playing. I'll try to play some tonight. Although I don't think I'll be able to finish it.

P.S.:
mice said:
I'm out of play for about 3 weeks. I wont be involved in voting for this time.
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Have a nice trip!
 
cabert: the tension..the anticipation.. its a game, I play for the thrill. Don't you? :lol: :lol:
 
Made a ham-fisted attack on Quinn and was about to post the save then realised it distorts voting if you include a save but don't vote, so withheld the save - which wasn't game breaking.

But here is a report anyway.

Spoiler :
Monarchy to Gengis for iron working and sailing ( then forgot to mine the iron)

No Parthenon, Slavery!! Settler held for better city placement later in the game.

Spent the time waiting for Hwachas by roading all the routes to Quinn's cities, few Cottages

Prophet arrived and gave theology which I on-sold for 170 gold, 140 gold ,HBR and some gold, 110 gold and 80 gold.

All that gold went to research. M/casting, Literature,

Declared on Quinn and got a GG after some attacks. Miltary Academy in Pyongyang

Began the raizing party by destroying Nanjing, but kept Shanghai.





fbelintani said:
Have a nice trip!
Click to expand...


Thanks :)
 
mice said:
Made a ham-fisted attack on Quinn and was about to post the save then realised it distorts voting if you include a save but don't vote, so withheld the save - which wasn't game breaking.

But here is a report anyway.

Spoiler :
Monarchy to Gengis for iron working and sailing ( then forgot to mine the iron)

No Parthenon, Slavery!! Settler held for better city placement later in the game.

Spent the time waiting for Hwachas by roading all the routes to Quinn's cities, few Cottages

Prophet arrived and gave theology which I on-sold for 170 gold, 140 gold ,HBR and some gold, 110 gold and 80 gold.

All that gold went to research. M/casting, Literature,

Declared on Quinn and got a GG after some attacks. Miltary Academy in Pyongyang

Began the raizing party by destroying Nanjing, but kept Shanghai.


Thanks :)
Click to expand...

give away the save.
We may or may not include it, but if you don't post it we just can't :sad: .
If there is a voting distortion, Cam will find another rule to overcome it ;), but i honestly don't think it's a problem.
There are enough players = enough voters to make 1 vote a minority
+ if you have access to internet, some of us can give you all the infos you want to judge the games.

edit: i managed to NOT read the spoiler!
 
OK here it is, but I really wont be able to vote.


Actually Nanking had better production than Taijin, so it was silly to raize it. Oh well.
 

Attachments

  • P666-04,mice, AD-0800.CivWarlordsSave
    179 KB · Views: 84
:spear: :ar15: :sniper:
:spank:

Spoiler :
Well, I looked at the save and the first thing I noticed was Wonsan and how close to Toku's borders it was. There was a Settler/archer pair nearby. Went to the Civics change screen... 3 turns to switch out from caste. Population needs to be :whipped:!
Lets make some use of caste, then. MM the cities so I starved Wonsan to run 3 artists and pop it's borders. Tokyo is too close. Switch out of civilian buildings and wonders and started on some force. Axes, Barracks and Archers for Garrisoning.
Press ENTER.
What a surprise! The Khan (Genghis) has Alpha now! So, I trade Monarchy to him for IW and Sailing. Let's get some Iron.
Used the Settler to found Pusan at the same spot I founded on my last game. It's in the middle of the desert, 1N of the Oasis, to grab Iron, Wheat and Marble.
So, at last I change to Slavery.
By the time construction is in, we had some force of axes and start pumping Hwachas out of everywhere but Pusan (poor city has no production yet). Tech to Currency.
The Khan (Kublai) builds the Pyramids and switch to Representation.
Our "friend" Asoka has Alpha too. So we have. I can't rememeber what I gave, but it wasn't construction!
St. Thomas Aquinas (Prophet) (Great Prophet) born in P'yongyang
That's another profit from the Oracle. I looked at the civics.. We are on the expensive Organized Religion with NO state religion. Let's change it. Prophet bulbed Theology and Christianity was found on the better place for it: Pusan. It had no culture at all.
Everybody is asking us to cancel deals with the Indians. Ok, we know it's Asoka. But the cool thing is when they ask to cancel with the chinese or the mongolians. I decline all of them because I don't know who they are talking about. Because of it, everybody is becoming annoyed with us.
I see one insanely promoted protective archer of Toku heading south for a tundra city he founded. Better not let him arrive there!
P666-04(Korea) declares war on Tokugawa(Japan)
Yes, Japan. I had too many cities of him near mine. Pusan had two cities near (Kagoshima and the tundra one) and Tokyo was near Wonsan.
War summary: I LOVE HWACHAS! This time the RNG god was on my side. I won battles at 20% odds and in the NEXT turn, the last Japanese city (Satsuma) will fall. IIRC, it has only two archers and we have about 5 hwachas, 3 axes and some chariots (including a medic 3 warlord) on the tile next to it. Toku will be history!
Techs I got after currency: MC, (traded for) Literature, HBR, Machinery and we are 5 turns from Civil Service and maces for our next campaign against Qin this time. That city near Seoul is getting down on culture % and may flip (it's about 75%).
The cities need some MM. One I know is that Seoul need to run an engineer now that I finished a forge. I usually don't MM too much regarding economy during wartime. I only care about units. Seoul is spreading Christianity too. I changed the state religion to it (better than go back to Paganism) in the middle of the set when we captured Tokyo and were running North to Osaka and Kyoto.

Wow, I had to delete the autolog:
CivFanatics said:
The text that you have entered is too long (31568 characters). Please shorten it to 30000 characters long.
Click to expand...

Forgot to mention: Qin and Asoka are at war. I let some Hwachas back at home just in case for the next war. Just be careful because Qin has Feudalism.
Forgot to mention 2: Genghis is a research powerhouse! He had Lit right after alpha, so I didn't go for the GL. Although it's not built yet, we have Marble and we may have a shot at it (I didn't check for a suitable site), even if it's only for the :gold: we may earn from losing it.


Wow, I wrote too much! That's what you get for writing up in a Tuesday Boring Morning at work! :D

A save:
 

Attachments

  • P666-04 fbelintani AD-1000.CivWarlordsSave
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hey guys, what's up with this save? i know that i took a pass last week, but i thought that in the previous week that oracle-->construction was in the bag? what happened!?!?!?!?!?! :(
 
Cam_H said:
We became the proud owners of the Monarchy technology. :)
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Gah!!! I know this is a fix the trash game, but it's still a succession game. Everyone (except one person apparently) was on board for the oracle->construction approach last time I checked.

I am urging people to please follow along with the discussion (and contribute to it as well)!

It's not that we all want to play exactly the same, but this was a huge error imo :sad:
 
When I saw it on the report, I was pretty sure that his game would be elected the trash one. Confession: I didn't even bother to open any save game to cast my vote. :blush:
I agree with you that this can be called a "mistake" and I understand your.... How can I say? Frustration, maybe? But, you know, we can always learn from "mistakes", can't we? ;)

Let's just give our best shot to "fix" it, shall we? This is the fix the trash game after all! :)
 
mommyyy.... I don't wanna take the trash out :cry:
 
fbelintani said:
When I saw it on the report, I was pretty sure that his game would be elected the trash one. Confession: I didn't even bother to open any save game to cast my vote. :blush:
I agree with you that this can be called a "mistake" and I understand your.... How can I say? Frustration, maybe? But, you know, we can always learn from "mistakes", can't we? ;)

Let's just give our best shot to "fix" it, shall we? This is the fix the trash game after all! :)
Click to expand...

I'm not against fixing the trash at all and I understand that that is what this thread is all about. However, what I am saying is that this is STILL a succession game = people need to read the discussion and try and play optimally.

Not taking construction wasn't about just not playing well. It was a boneheaded move imo (sorry). It was a matter of picking construction when oracle was done instead of ??? monarchy ???. If the person had been following the discussion, they would have known that the optimal move was to take construction allowing early access to hwachas.

I don't mind if lower-level players don't play as good as the higher level players. That is after all the point of the thread. But everyone still needs to read the discussion and not make simple, but serious, mistakes like this :)

*end rant*
 
Öjevind Lång was immediately aware of his mistakes, he (she?) didn't argue and aknowledged the results without any negative ranting.
Let's play the game as it was given out.

Choosing monarchy was indeed a mistake because we have a good UU and we wanted to use it for as long as possible. Still monarchy and feudalism are priority too. We just attack later :(

Remember we go for conquest and we're only 80 turns in the game, there is room for improvement in this turnset, I'm sure although I'm not positive at all that there is room for a good fight :
- protective neighbours,
- no catapults, - using caste system instead of slavery...
It may be long before we have a force big enough to take out toku or quin.
On the other hand, we may not be compelled to research alphabet at all in this game :lol:
 
I apologize for my harshness. My frustration stems from what I was trying to articulate (minus the harshness): If everyone else does something (pick construction from oracle) and one person doesn't, that indicates to me that the one person wasn't reading along with what the goals of the game are at a given time. My plea was for people to avoid this in the future and to read everything posted in this thread and to ask if there are any questions.

Like I said, I have no problems fixing trash. All I ask is that clear-cut issues like this be avoided by some simple reading of the thread :) That's standard in any succession game :)

Again, apologies, and I hope no hard feelings :)
 
I'm sure that Öjevind Lång was playing the strategy he felt comfortable with. It may be that having looked at the other submissions for the round he (she?) will conclude from observation that construction for UU was the strongest move at this point in the game.
If nothing else it makes the game challenging for the more experienced players to get to a strong position from the starting save.
 
Oh yes, from the looks of the save it will be a fun time fixing this trash ;) :p

I think I was more surprised than anything else. I opened the game expecting to have fun dumping a bunch of hwachas on china and when I went to build them I was like, huh? :lol:
 
I played my round too.
A bit smoky, and ... hum... challenging.
Spoiler :

So no construction, and buildings going everywhere, population growing big.
What to do?
I finished researching pottery, traded monarchy for IW and sailing (genghis Kahn among all those builders is the most advanced!), trade wine for gems to genghis.
I know monarchy leads to feodalism. But since our research is so slow, we may just as well trade for feudalism that we will need to vassalize our neighbours. So giving away monarchy is the way to go :crazyeye:.

I switched to slavery (had to wait a bit), then to buddhism (we are running a religious civic, we may just as well use it!).

Now my neighbours loved me a bit more, and I didn't want to break the buddhist universal harmony. + all our neighbours are protective!
So I scanned all around, who's not too loved...
Asoka!
+ he has 2 (at least!) holy cities. yum yum.
Of course, he is far away from our land, but our buddhist buddies will give us a good buffer = no need to defend :)

I took the jewish holy city and the hindu holy city.
Meanwhile I had finished the parthenon and had a great prophet waiting. The temple of Salomon will give us some small cash.

I also researched currency (badly needed and hard to trade for) and metal casting.
I traded this around for
- HBR (for whatever it may help = knights and cavalry)
- feudalism :king:
- litterature (don't go running for the marble, the great library is built already. Kublai would be my next target, if i did play on).

I have a forge and a market in seoul, and I'm a few turns away from the colossus.
My army is small but effective :)

the save
 
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