"Fire" Developer Diary

Kael said:

Yeap, depends on the type. I dont think there is a poison immunity promotion. Instead the demon, golem and undead promotions all give immunity to poison, etc.

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hmmm... immunity to poison.
a new endurance promotion line?

actually-forge drill and endurance into a new promotion.
prowess-!
gives +5maximum health(not str) per promotion and fs chance for the first two, 1 first strike each for the 2nd two
and leads to a few resistences including body and poison?

How about a defensive collateral strikeback?

Jono said:

How about a defensive collateral strikeback?

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first strikes already lower collateral damage...
if you kill the unit or force it to withdraw i think it deals no collateral whatsoever

maybe if siege units could get be a counter-bobard promotion based off of cmb1 or
drill1

What I was saying was that the loss of a unit would devastate the rest of the stack. Collateral damage to a stack after losing an offensive battle to a unit with a certain promotion sounds decent to me.

Except that it'd need to track where a unit attacked from - at present I believe only the defender's tile where the battle takes place is taken into account.

EDIT: Actually, some sort of checks must be made for the amphibious and river crossing penalties. Hmmm.

Jono said:

What I was saying was that the loss of a unit would devastate the rest of the stack. Collateral damage to a stack after losing an offensive battle to a unit with a certain promotion sounds decent to me.

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you mean the archer who is most likely defending, vs a siege unit sitting in a stack?
i was thinking that each time thedefensive stack was attacked, a siege unit with the proper promotion would retaliate without risk if the defenders wins
(up to once per turn)

No, I'd probably give the promotion a minus on city defense...
I'm completely aware of how I've stopped making sense.

Jono said:

No, I'd probably give the promotion a minus on city defense...
I'm completely aware of how I've stopped making sense.

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promotion-vengeance?
you take additional vengeance for strength lost to an attacking unit,
that damage is divided evenly between three units from the attackers stack?
or just non specific retaliation

or just a negative moral promotion

Yoshi2942 said:

Armagedon Counter sounds great! I've been looking at ways of "increasing tension" as the game progresses - and this sounds like just the thing to do so.

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Thats exactly the design need we are trying to fill. I typically don't like designing from flavor ("I have this cool idea, how can we use it") but instead we try to find a functional issue and resolve it in cool ways. The "issue" was how the late game gets stagnant, we want it to be as interesting as the early game.

Thats the point we started designing from. We all brainstorm, pool our ideas and try to find the design that works best (the problem with the FfH we have is never having not having great ideas, but choosing which great idea to use) and this is what we came up with. Its not going to balanced or well polished when you guys get it, thats what we need you guys to playtest for. But the structure will be there.

It is fun to hear the Armageddon sound, see the counter increase and realize that somewhere in the world a city has been razed (the amount of increase is based on the size of the city, so really big cities being razed can jump it up quite a bit). Or to see it jump when the Veil is founded and Hyborem has entered the world. Or when someone has built the Prophecy of Ragnarok (which now gives armageddon points).

Or on the other side see the counter decrease because an Order civ is fighting back and destroying Veil cities, or that the Hallowing of the Elohim ritual has been completed (an Elohim only repeatable ritual that lowers the armageddon counter, the Sheaim have one that does the opposite).

Even if you aren't involved in the battle, you are effected a world away if Basium dies and the counter jumps. And you will watch your neighbors wars and alignments with interest, if you are good and your fellow good players start dying you will be a lot more interested in jumping in and saving some late game allies than you are in Light.

Wow, I'd say that this really looks like it's going to keep the late game from stagnating. I can hardly wait to see how it plays out.

Hmm...with the spreading of hell land, any chance Basium's civilization will start a counter spread of "Good land"? Meh that would be interesting, anyways I was also wondering if they might enter the game much as the infernals do with the founding of the order Just a thought.

Oh, and the armageddon counter looks amazing, I was wondering if culture levels of good/evil civilizations will have an affect on the spread of hell land. For instance, would high culture calabim = faster spread and high culture elohim = slower spread? This is more of a thought really, just curious hehe.

Alex Encandar said:

Hmm...with the spreading of hell land, any chance Basium's civilization will start a counter spread of "Good land"? Meh that would be interesting, anyways I was also wondering if they might enter the game much as the infernals do with the founding of the order Just a thought.

Oh, and the armageddon counter looks amazing, I was wondering if culture levels of good/evil civilizations will have an affect on the spread of hell land. For instance, would high culture calabim = faster spread and high culture elohim = slower spread? This is more of a thought really, just curious hehe.

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Not directly. The culture levels of those civs will expand their borders and that will influence the spread of hell. So if the calabim are AV and they have high culture then hell will have more area to spread through. Likewise if the Elohim have high culture (and they are good) they will keep hell from entering that area, or chase it out if they take over some land that is already converted.

We will talk about the Mercurians next week, but they aren't related to the founding of the Order (we rarely use patterns).

Jono said:

What I find funny about it is that Benjamin is a Hebrew name .

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I think there are a lot of English names which are Hebrew or inspired (e.g. David - King David).

Kael said:

It is fun to hear the Armageddon sound, see the counter increase and realize that somewhere in the world a city has been razed (the amount of increase is based on the size of the city, so really big cities being razed can jump it up quite a bit). ...

Or on the other side see the counter decrease because an Order civ is fighting back and destroying Veil cities,

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So the counter increases when you raze a non AV city but decreases when you raze an AV city?

Bad Player said:

So the counter increases when you raze a non AV city but decreases when you raze an AV city?

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Exactly. And razing the order holy city increases it extra, while razing the AV holy city decreases it extra.

Instead of razing AV cities, it might be better to use Evangelist to capture it that changes it, removing AV from the city.

With all this talk of hell tiles, are Defile and Sanctify (Entropy I and Life I spells) going to be reworked, so that Defile creates hell tiles artificially while Sanctify removes them?

MrUnderhill said:

With all this talk of hell tiles, are Defile and Sanctify (Entropy I and Life I spells) going to be reworked, so that Defile creates hell tiles artificially while Sanctify removes them?

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Sanctify has been changed to convert the tile to non-hell terrain. I havent touched defile yet but that would be a good idea.

Kael said:

Sanctify has been changed to convert the tile to non-hell terrain. I havent touched defile yet but that would be a good idea.

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Will workers be able to "scrub" hell terrain?

Basium will be at war with at least 2 civs for most of the time in most games (since he is at war with all AV religions) so therefore he will try and get allies! The best way for him to have strong allies (good civs are the best allies too!) is to increase the Armageddon counter! Therefore what is his motivation to destroy AV cities?