Alternate History Thread III

Dachs, any news on the stats/map? Finals are approaching and I can start it after that.
It's getting epic. After screwing around with the Mexican Revolution, I'm still messing with the Americas. Communism took a while, too, especially in the Balkans - that Bela Kun! ;)

The whole TL is in the fifty-page range right now. How exactly do you want me to do stats?
 
I thought the Spanish catholics were the ones with huge differences with other catholics?
Umm....no. Mexican Catholics have huge differences with the rest of the Church as do other Latin Americans to a lesser extent. Within in Europe itself there is rather little difference between Portuguese, Spanish, French, Belgian, Swiss and other Catholics. Italian, Hungarian, Croatian, and Ukrainian Roman Catholicism do have some abnormalities, though not major ones. Besides Ireland and Scotland (Scotland, in fact, does still have its own Scottish Rite of Catholicism that survived into the modern day), the only huge differences in European Catholicism are the Eastern Rite Catholics, whose practices more closely resemble Orthodoxy than Roman Catholicism though they have theology that falls in line for the most part with the Vatican.
 
Personally, I like Stormy's rules, if thats okay. Less bother with ECs and what not.
 
The Hussite Wars did of course have an effect, as they killed much of the leadership and made people think "Hmm, if I convert to Lollardy I'll likely get killed. I think I'll stay a Roman Catholic."

But: much more of the leadership remained, and those dead remained martyrs. i do agree that while strenghthening the Hussites in Bohemia it did lessen their chances of spreading elsewhere. But that has more to do with re-intensification of the Inquisition's activities in Eastern and Central Europe as opposed to the war itself, which was more of a glorified national uprising, with nationalist ideas partially overtaking the religious ones soon into the war.

I thought the Spanish catholics were the ones with huge differences with other catholics?

Actually, only the French (and that is probably no longer true in the early 21st century) and Eastern Rite ones come to mind.

Huh? This is a new one for me. I seem to remember the Venetians in OTL striving desperately to maintain control over Dalmatia and Dubrovnik and fighting fiercely against the Hungarians, Byzantines, and Ottomans (at different points in time) to maintain naval supremacy on the Adriatic. I also seem to remember the Adriatic being the only way for Venice, as a sea power to reach the Eastern Mediterranean. Really, that is the strangest argument I have ever heard out of you. I may be wrong though, so correct me if you can.

Forgive me, I meant losing Dalmatia and Dubrovnik. But they captured it in the first place to remove the pirates there (if the Hungarians rule there then it is just as good as long as relations are normal). As for losing the Adriatic to Hungarians, that isn't physically possible. How do they "lose" a sea, unless the Hungarians decide to initiate an all-out blockade of Venice?

And basically, as long as Venice stands, it is a naval power, if only because its on a bloody island.

Savoy is more worried with French affairs than anything else at this point

Why that? It doesn't appear to have been terribly concerned about them in OTL.

Remember, France is incredibly weakened in TTL, and Aragon is also weaker than OTL.

Which is precisely why they WOULD ally with Venice against Florence-Genoa. The French just conquered Provence anyway, so an intervention in Italy is the most logical step, and Genoa was always a coveted target, whether as an ally (so the French might try and thwart the Florentine invasion in the first place) or as a forward base. As for Aragon, its priorities lie in reasserting power in the Mediterranean. It is likely to try and steal Corsica, at least.
 
Which is precisely why they WOULD ally with Venice against Florence-Genoa. The French just conquered Provence anyway, so an intervention in Italy is the most logical step, and Genoa was always a coveted target, whether as an ally (so the French might try and thwart the Florentine invasion in the first place) or as a forward base. As for Aragon, its priorities lie in reasserting power in the Mediterranean. It is likely to try and steal Corsica, at least.
The war will expand soon enough to involve France, Savoy, and Aragon. As mentioned by Swiss after the last update, the Spanish nations are in a bit of a dynastic struggle right now, meaning Aragon has not been able to intervene. France, meanwhile, does not have borders with Italy at this point. If you notice, the Treaty of Montpellier handed over Languedoc and other territory in the south of France, but not Provence-Forcalquier itself, meaning that France had no reason to intervene as of yet.
 
Here's a guess-the-PoD map, based on an idea/ideas that had haunted my mind for quite a while now. The year now is 1900, and many things are not what they might seem at the first glance: notably, the strenght of nations is not necessarily correspondent to their size, the religious picture is very different from OTL and so is the ethnic makeup of many regions, in part because of a different evolution of cultural identity and in part because of different migration and colonisation patterns. The government forms of certain nations are also not what you expect. And no, that's not exactly Canada, but it is pretty similar in certain regards and it may well have been named Canada in a slightly different version of this world.
 

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Is that the Latin Empire around Constantinople, or a Serb one, or what?
 
Both!

That is to say, an Uniate Serbian kingdom that, during the Third Balkan War (1868-1873), had won big thanks to the Holy Roman Empire's assistance and so moved its capital to Constantinople and assumed the identity of a "Byzantine successor state", in order to cement the unity of the Balkan Peninsula (which is an ethnic mess; some things never change).
 
Why is Anatolia balkanized - are those Turk tribes, or Greeks, or Crusader states...?
 
Whoah, super Portugal! And a Britain ruled from....Quebec?!?!!?

And what in heck happened to China? :p
 
Do the update! ;)

Also, why has that Ukrainian nation (whatever it is) got two capitals?
 
Yeah, slacker, back to updating. It'd better be on my desk by the time I get home!

And whatever that is it's really, really weird. Given the French capital I'd say something to do with the Hundred Years' War but that's probably wrong too.
 
It will come in time, progress is good. Blame France & Britain :p

das, if your thinking of a PoD to do whenever you decide to do one, this would be a nice refreshing change :D
 
What is the steppe nation - the one in Turkestan - and why has it got that autonomous region or whatever it is? Looks Timurid or Mongol...

EDIT: Or even Turkish - it\'d be nice if for once they didn\'t leave their ancestral homeland.
 
It seems to be something German. Related to Charlemagne, perhaps?

Perhaps his lands aren't divided between his grandsons, allowing the Frankish Empire to continue for several more generations...

I am curious. What exactly made you think that happened?

Though the time period is actually pretty close.

Why is Anatolia balkanized - are those Turk tribes, or Greeks, or Crusader states...?

The western state is the Despotate of Ionia (Greek). Around Ankara is the Kingdom of Angora (Turkish, but Christian and under strong Greek and Armenian influences). In the south is the Republic of Adana (theocratic Arabo-Turkic Muslim republic). Lastly, in the east we have the Armenian Empire.

This ethnic diversity already explains the balkanisation, in part. Basically the region had an even more chaotic history than in OTL. The Turkic invasion was much less organised, for one thing, and no equivalent of the Ottoman Empire ever arose. Other powers, including the Crusaders, the Venetians, the Hungarians and certain Slavic countries, had destabilised things further. Borders often got redrawn there; the latest major changes were the Serbian and Chernigovian conquests in the north.

Whoah, super Portugal!

Aye, its awesome, and still not in any terrible decline, though stagnating a bit.

And a Britain ruled from....Quebec?!?!!?

Its not called that neither. ;) To clarify, this is the Kingdom of Arcadia, the largest successor state to the Kingdom of Britain (and the British Empire, though it wasn't an official empire); it is still ruled by the main line of the House of Northumbria (which ruled England since the Rising of 1388), which had simply fled to the colonies during the Fifty Years War (1724-1774). The problem was that when the British Isles were reconquered, they were in such a terrible state (the French occupying authorities had made sure to cripple Britain's economic potential as much as possible and generally wrecked things beyond recognition) that it was decided to rule on from Arcadia, which had by then gained considerably in population thanks to the constant stream of refugees and immigrants. Not all the other colonies accepted this, however. That mostly brings us to where we are today. ;)

And what in heck happened to China? :p

a) Long, drawn-out war with the Qing;
b) Endless and ruinous peasant uprisings and warlordism;
c) Rise of the Japanese Shogunate, with the Chinese eastern coast as one of the natural targets for a campaign of conquest;
d) Portuguese meddling and expansionism;
and
e) All-around bad luck.

All those factors had united in the 17th century to screw over China, and the Qing too had failed to fully conquer it due to complications of their own and an unexpected war with the Shogunate. Over the course of the 18th and early 19th centuries, China was carved up between Japan, Portugal and the Qing, and small warlord states and "dynasties" in the south. Later in the 19th century, however, a popular uprising led by a Ming pretender and the White Lotus movement had overthrown those warlords and pushed the Qing out of central China. The Xin Ming Dynasty is even now plotting to reunite China fully, combining populism with pragmatic modernisation; while uprisings are organised in barbarian-occupied territories, a new, more modern army, trained by European "freelance" military advisors and paid for by the Flemings, is being prepared in the depths of China.

Also, why has that Ukrainian nation (whatever it is) got two capitals?

Officially and historically the capital of the Grand Principality of Chernigov was, well, Chernigov itself (the northern capital). For practical reasons (growing importance of south and the southern direction in foreign policy plus the Tverian border being so darn close), however, most of the actual government has been moved to Odessa. A bit like Israel with its Jerusalem-Tel Aviv capitals.

Given the French capital I'd say something to do with the Hundred Years' War but that's probably wrong too.

Indeed it is wrong. Actually the French capital being in Tours doesn't have all that much to do with the PoD itself, though it is more directly connected to a significant butterfly effect that went into place about three hundred years after the PoD itself.

das, if your thinking of a PoD to do whenever you decide to do one, this would be a nice refreshing change :D

If I ever go back to modding this shall be one of my options at least. There is a lot to do in this world.

What is the steppe nation - the one in Turkestan - and why has it got that autonomous region or whatever it is? Looks Timurid or Mongol...

Oh, its Mongol all right, its the Golden Horde as a matter of fact, though it is obviously different from the original (both the OTL and the ATL one); in fact it was only recently revived. The Uighur Khanate is its obligatory vassal/tributary state.

Or even Turkish - it\'d be nice if for once they didn\'t leave their ancestral homeland.

I have to disappoint you here, though the main mass actually settled in Persia and the whereabouts in this world. There are some OTL "Turk" tribes in the Golden Horde, though.

EDIT:

I think it's earlier than the Hundred Years War. We need a PoD that supposedly radically changes demographics, as well as creates a stronger Holy Roman Empire.

You're on the right path, though technically one can alter the demographics as late as in the Age of Exploration, and the Holy Roman Empire was actually weaker than in OTL in the High Middle Ages (but did it compensate for that afterwards or what...).
 
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