Another thing I wasn't aware of in Warlords. You may have it backwards though. It might be easier for you to get a CS slingshot in Warlords since *they* need math and you won't get beat to it very easily. That could have a huge effect on some games.
G-Major 11
- Thread starter Dianthus
- Start date
Another thing I wasn't aware of in Warlords. You may have it backwards though. It might be easier for you to get a CS slingshot in Warlords since *they* need math and you won't get beat to it very easily. That could have a huge effect on some games.
Misotu
King
- Joined
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- 934
Well, the trouble is that the AI builds the Oracle early and takes whatever tech is available. So I tend to find myself holding off completing it, taking a chance that I can get positioned for CS before they can beat me to it. I usually fail <shrug> although not always. I wish they would wait until they could get Bureaucracy! So you really have to have a very good start to pull it off in Warlords. Marble is pretty common on Inland Sea, which I've been playing, and Asoka tends to go for Poly/Priesthood as an early beeline. Perhaps I should leave him out of my games, come to think of it 
I see your point. Yes, it looks much harder in Warlords. I think the secret would not be marble, but fast teching. You'd need at least 2 gems/gold if you're at a high difficulty level and then probably no go.
AAA
Warlord
Sadly you are correct, there is almost no game, no finish, above Prince (is that when the AIs start with archers?) that is not faster with Capac. It gets alittle boring but you can't beat starting with 3 settlers and 4 workers. The gauntlets that force you to use other leaders are good -- I'm always slightly shocked that I can't just crush every AI I find at the start -- I over use Capac
Thanks for mentioning vassals in the G-minor 18, that possibility had completely slipped my mind
WEll, I give it one more attempt. This time I finished it 1616AD with 14 cities.
It took to long from MM point of view, I probably was able to finish it 20 turns early if I did not give up on MM to early and payed attention.
I had GE to finish taj maxal and forgot about it, as result Asoka steal it from me.
This time I tech all way to democaracy and free market.
My best city was producing 1500 culture/turn at the end.
This time I manage to make all 3 cities finish naturally on the same turn, nice.
It took to long from MM point of view, I probably was able to finish it 20 turns early if I did not give up on MM to early and payed attention.
I had GE to finish taj maxal and forgot about it, as result Asoka steal it from me.
This time I tech all way to democaracy and free market.
My best city was producing 1500 culture/turn at the end.
This time I manage to make all 3 cities finish naturally on the same turn, nice.
Misotu
King
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2006
- Messages
- 934
Absolutely right. It's a fairly cheap wonder anyway, marble is just a bonus. I have played games where I just take Code of Laws with the Oracle, but this is definitely much less effective, even though CoL is pretty expensive to research early game.
The other thing is that, if I'm taking a shot at it, I delay Alphabet until after Maths and that has quite a downside because I've done the shortest beeline to CoL/Maths, which means no Pottery or Animal Husbandry.
Dracandross
Warlord
At least more gauntlets should have: CIV any non inca just to make it different. Or startingage nonanc.
-Dracandross
Third attemp, corn and 1gold start, worst result:1604AD. 4religions, 9 cities, 12 cathedrals, no wonders, 14GP (2sci,1 art settled, rest bombed 3-5-5), 10cottages per city, 750-650-600cpt last turn.
I thought I needed a lot of hammers to have 9 cities, 36 temples, 30+ missionaries, some monasteries, 12 Cathedrals... So I started with slavery and OR and kept them (too much) till 780AD. It damaged my GP farming. It wasn't so useful, my 6th Cathedral came at the same time than the previous game, although I had 12 when I had 8 the previous game. What date do you guys get your 6th cathedral up and running?
I think I must change my city placement, I hardly think about hils/hammers when I choose sites. 9 cities give money problems in the research phase. Liberalism 650AD, 100% culture 920AD with Print, Natio, Liber (200-150-150cpt at the moment).
I only did one thing right: quick CoL and no Oracle meant that the Oracle AI chose MC. I traded for MC and gifted it to all AIs, then did the same with Machi, Feud, Guilds, Bank... saving a lot of research to the AI and thus enjoying FreeMarket in 1232AD. I wonder if I should have gifted them Alphabet inmediately in the first place...
Next try will be the last one, 2 mining resources, peaceful, 6 cities, 10 cottages per legendary city, GPfarm non-legendary, 1 wonder, fast tech, short slavery periods, temperate climate (my workers are sick and tired of clearing jungles). However, I suspect that Warlords and early war are needed to win this gauntlet, shame on Epic speed.
I thought I needed a lot of hammers to have 9 cities, 36 temples, 30+ missionaries, some monasteries, 12 Cathedrals... So I started with slavery and OR and kept them (too much) till 780AD. It damaged my GP farming. It wasn't so useful, my 6th Cathedral came at the same time than the previous game, although I had 12 when I had 8 the previous game. What date do you guys get your 6th cathedral up and running?
I think I must change my city placement, I hardly think about hils/hammers when I choose sites. 9 cities give money problems in the research phase. Liberalism 650AD, 100% culture 920AD with Print, Natio, Liber (200-150-150cpt at the moment).
I only did one thing right: quick CoL and no Oracle meant that the Oracle AI chose MC. I traded for MC and gifted it to all AIs, then did the same with Machi, Feud, Guilds, Bank... saving a lot of research to the AI and thus enjoying FreeMarket in 1232AD. I wonder if I should have gifted them Alphabet inmediately in the first place...
Next try will be the last one, 2 mining resources, peaceful, 6 cities, 10 cottages per legendary city, GPfarm non-legendary, 1 wonder, fast tech, short slavery periods, temperate climate (my workers are sick and tired of clearing jungles). However, I suspect that Warlords and early war are needed to win this gauntlet, shame on Epic speed.
I usually use the Oracle for Philosophy and research CS myself. Since Philosophy costs the same as CS, I think it's a good trade off. Either that or take the gold (since the AI usually have no problem finishing it before I'm done searching for Math).
The-Hawk
Old Original Geezer
It might not be as bad as you think. It appears to me that the AI is not so stupid in Warlords. If you park a Quechua near a city, the AI will no longer suicide archers against it. The old tactic of parking your first Quechua and watching him promote into a Quechua-tank while you build others no longer works. Now you need to actually build a Quechua army and root the AI out of his/her city the old fashioned way. So, Quechua rush now feels more like an axeman rush (albeit sooner).
Having said that, Inca still is the best option at higher levels...
Misotu
King
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2006
- Messages
- 934
That's interesting. I hadn't considered doing that. Yes, I've taken the gold a few times, generally one or two turns away from completion so quite a lot of gold
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
yay finally won a game! in 1738, not an early win, but i'm just as happy as if it was 500 BC, i don't even care . i thought i'd never get a major done!
last time they had SAMs in 1592 and some of y'all thought that was early. this time, i saw some in 1544. but, the map was good, things were going well other than them teching faster than i'd known that they were, and there was no gandhi around. well there was, but he was me
, i just miss spiritual too much as liz. he was the problem last time, mr. "build the UN, pass emancipation, ruin my GA rate, then launch a space ship". so i kept going. nobody built the UN this time. they all started building space ships, but i was really close by then, and nobody got more than casings done before i hit legendary!
i ended up with cities 1 through 4 on the top 5 list this time, even tho i only ever built two world wonders
. my official GA farm (NE and globe) was top city. one of my 2 satellite GA farms was city 4, it had no wonders, not even national, but it was so big and so lovely it earned a spot i guess. i had so much food it was ridiculous. i seriously debated with myself about which of three cities to put NE/globe in, they were all good choices--that's insane, i never see that much food. forget seeing it--being able to grab it for myself? that's unheard of! and i had so few towns you guys would be ashamed of me 
*giggle*. start location had marble, sugar, cows, not a lot of research potential but it was on a river and had floodplains and marble so i figured i'd look around. saw tons of food so i kept going.
i had incredibly amazing luck during the landgrab. churchill was north of me, rameses was south, but churchill expanded pretty slowly, and rameses headed towards washington to his west, not towards the spots i wanted in between us. plains elephant tile (aka extra hammer if you found on it) on the coast by clams, 2 floodplains in the cross, way closer to his border than mine, he didn't settle there. often i don't get seafood resources for myself, have to trade, so i wanted that one. gems/dye/rice in the one cross nearby, i beat him to that one. 2 floodplains/2 grasslands/irrigated corn?(whichever gives 6), surrounded by desert hill junk, churchill skipped. that's a size 11 city needing only 5 people working tiles to feed it, i'm not gonna pass that up just because it's got desert too. that sort of thing. i founded hinduism and then went for BW to whip settlers. i always miss out on at least 3 spots i want, this time i only had to move one planned city a little bit. i only ever flipped one AI city, very very late, and it was the only city that ever even revolted; that's how little we crowded each other, quite bizarre. not that i'm complaining!
my research was rather unconventional. did BW before alphabet. i missed out on conf (rameses took it from oracle), and my own hinduism spread to my cities too quickly. that meant i couldn't pick up any AI religions by natural spread, so i traded for monotheism and ran a priest off a temple to get a prophet, and popped him for theo to found christianity. popped philo from a GS, so i had my three religions. rameses sent a conf missionary much later and i cheered when i saw him in my borders of course. i was running pacifism, and the city he sent him to was the city that was going to pop the next GA, convenient! so when he asked me to convert the next turn, i did. waited for him to ask, why pass up a chance for a +1 modifier, even if we are getting along smashingly, right?
i did a bunch of things wrong of course, i always do. but the ridiculous amount of food, with the accompanying hordes of GAs, saved me. diplomacy wasn't as dramatic as last game (no wars) but it was a bit tricky; that makes it fun tho. churchill got my hinduism so he hated jewish hatty, that sort of thing. i gifted him liberalism and bribed him to go to free religion, just so that i could trade with her for pigs without a "worst enemy" negative, gotta have health resources after all. i moved my palace when it became pretty clear that my original capital would beat my second city, so i figured the palace might push it along. i think that helped, it made the dates closer. the GA farm was legendary #3 and got bombed most of the way, it had no commerce, zero cottages, just gems, river tiles, and trade routes. all of its culture was from buildings and (a lot of) specialists. i had a bunch of luxuries to trade for the healths i didn't have, and for cash. my budget sure felt it when my two ivories became obsolete for them. made an "investment" in the statue of liberty too, for gold when one of them finished it, got just over 1k gold, they were pretty slow about it. the money came in handy.
this game and my last game, george washington, whose favorite civic is free speech, was running bureaucracy. last time i kept trying to change him since he was my neighbor. this time i tried it just because i was curious. same thing, he'd change but then change back. last game it made no sense at all; he was losing so many tiles, and three cities to me in the culture war. i mean he lost a city where he built a world wonder (a crappy one, chichen itza, but still), and also his national epic city, you'd think the guy would want to run his favorite civic that helps culture wouldn't you? this was pre-apollo, he wasn't building a spaceship or wonders in his capital.
anyway ... i got a major done! with only 12 chances a year, and me being a permanoob, i really wasn't sure i'd ever see the day. i'm excited, does it show?
. i thought i'd never get a major done!last time they had SAMs in 1592 and some of y'all thought that was early. this time, i saw some in 1544. but, the map was good, things were going well other than them teching faster than i'd known that they were, and there was no gandhi around. well there was, but he was me
, i just miss spiritual too much as liz. he was the problem last time, mr. "build the UN, pass emancipation, ruin my GA rate, then launch a space ship". so i kept going. nobody built the UN this time. they all started building space ships, but i was really close by then, and nobody got more than casings done before i hit legendary!i ended up with cities 1 through 4 on the top 5 list this time, even tho i only ever built two world wonders
. my official GA farm (NE and globe) was top city. one of my 2 satellite GA farms was city 4, it had no wonders, not even national, but it was so big and so lovely it earned a spot i guess. i had so much food it was ridiculous. i seriously debated with myself about which of three cities to put NE/globe in, they were all good choices--that's insane, i never see that much food. forget seeing it--being able to grab it for myself? that's unheard of! and i had so few towns you guys would be ashamed of me *giggle*. start location had marble, sugar, cows, not a lot of research potential but it was on a river and had floodplains and marble so i figured i'd look around. saw tons of food so i kept going.i had incredibly amazing luck during the landgrab. churchill was north of me, rameses was south, but churchill expanded pretty slowly, and rameses headed towards washington to his west, not towards the spots i wanted in between us. plains elephant tile (aka extra hammer if you found on it) on the coast by clams, 2 floodplains in the cross, way closer to his border than mine, he didn't settle there. often i don't get seafood resources for myself, have to trade, so i wanted that one. gems/dye/rice in the one cross nearby, i beat him to that one. 2 floodplains/2 grasslands/irrigated corn?(whichever gives 6), surrounded by desert hill junk, churchill skipped. that's a size 11 city needing only 5 people working tiles to feed it, i'm not gonna pass that up just because it's got desert too. that sort of thing. i founded hinduism and then went for BW to whip settlers. i always miss out on at least 3 spots i want, this time i only had to move one planned city a little bit. i only ever flipped one AI city, very very late, and it was the only city that ever even revolted; that's how little we crowded each other, quite bizarre. not that i'm complaining!
my research was rather unconventional. did BW before alphabet. i missed out on conf (rameses took it from oracle), and my own hinduism spread to my cities too quickly. that meant i couldn't pick up any AI religions by natural spread, so i traded for monotheism and ran a priest off a temple to get a prophet, and popped him for theo to found christianity. popped philo from a GS, so i had my three religions. rameses sent a conf missionary much later and i cheered when i saw him in my borders of course. i was running pacifism, and the city he sent him to was the city that was going to pop the next GA, convenient! so when he asked me to convert the next turn, i did
. waited for him to ask, why pass up a chance for a +1 modifier, even if we are getting along smashingly, right?i did a bunch of things wrong of course, i always do. but the ridiculous amount of food, with the accompanying hordes of GAs, saved me. diplomacy wasn't as dramatic as last game (no wars) but it was a bit tricky; that makes it fun tho. churchill got my hinduism so he hated jewish hatty, that sort of thing. i gifted him liberalism and bribed him to go to free religion, just so that i could trade with her for pigs without a "worst enemy" negative, gotta have health resources after all. i moved my palace when it became pretty clear that my original capital would beat my second city, so i figured the palace might push it along. i think that helped, it made the dates closer. the GA farm was legendary #3 and got bombed most of the way, it had no commerce, zero cottages, just gems, river tiles, and trade routes. all of its culture was from buildings and (a lot of) specialists. i had a bunch of luxuries to trade for the healths i didn't have, and for cash. my budget sure felt it when my two ivories became obsolete for them
. made an "investment" in the statue of liberty too, for gold when one of them finished it, got just over 1k gold, they were pretty slow about it. the money came in handy.this game and my last game, george washington, whose favorite civic is free speech, was running bureaucracy. last time i kept trying to change him since he was my neighbor. this time i tried it just because i was curious. same thing, he'd change but then change back. last game it made no sense at all; he was losing so many tiles, and three cities to me in the culture war. i mean he lost a city where he built a world wonder (a crappy one, chichen itza, but still), and also his national epic city, you'd think the guy would want to run his favorite civic that helps culture wouldn't you? this was pre-apollo, he wasn't building a spaceship or wonders in his capital.
anyway ... i got a major done! with only 12 chances a year, and me being a permanoob, i really wasn't sure i'd ever see the day.
i'm excited, does it show?
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Congrats KMad you must be on course soon to be the worst quatromaster? I know you want that honour! I am aiming for second worst myself but have only just started and any level above Prince scares me.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
i want to be the worst so bad! but i was too nervous to wait until they got up to making their engines or anything, since i knew something would make my computer crash and disqualify my game or something. i've very very superstitious! so, i just went for the date i could get and didn't try to optimize, errrrr, sub-optimize/worstimize(?) my score .
don't be too scared *giggle*. but the main thing is always to have fun, don't worry about the levels. and, of course, the main thing for you in particular, is to be good enough to not be lower than my total score whenever we both ultimately reach QM. second worst will be fantastic.
.don't be too scared *giggle*. but the main thing is always to have fun, don't worry about the levels. and, of course, the main thing for you in particular, is to be good enough to not be lower than my total score whenever we both ultimately reach QM. second worst will be fantastic
.AnitaGaribaldi
Warlord
yay finally won a game! in 1738, not an early win, but i'm just as happy as if it was 500 BC, i don't even care
Well done. Better than me. My best time is 1815 AD.
The-Hawk
Old Original Geezer
Oops... going backwards. Just finished in 1526 AD. I thought I was supposed to improve with practice. 
Had a little bad luck with AI placement. Hatty on one side (after I eliminated two civs between us), Saladin on the other. I needed to pick one religion, hoped to get the other to go Free Religion by gifting Liberalism. Hatty's religion never spread to me, so I took Saladins. However, Hatty kept her religion the whole way, I guess religious-oriented AI's don't go Free Religion. Towards the end Hatty was ticked at me and dropped her trades with me, including two key health bonuses. That messed up my GP farm and starved two of my legendary cities.
However, I think the bigger impact that caused a slower time was my capital. I started with gold and marble, plus a couple flood plains. However, no food bonus. Since I cottaged the FP my capital grew slow, and never could sustain enough population to completely cottage it out. I suspect that cost me plenty over the full game.
Nice thing about a major gauntlet, plenty of time for another go at it.
Had a little bad luck with AI placement. Hatty on one side (after I eliminated two civs between us), Saladin on the other. I needed to pick one religion, hoped to get the other to go Free Religion by gifting Liberalism. Hatty's religion never spread to me, so I took Saladins. However, Hatty kept her religion the whole way, I guess religious-oriented AI's don't go Free Religion. Towards the end Hatty was ticked at me and dropped her trades with me, including two key health bonuses. That messed up my GP farm and starved two of my legendary cities.
However, I think the bigger impact that caused a slower time was my capital. I started with gold and marble, plus a couple flood plains. However, no food bonus. Since I cottaged the FP my capital grew slow, and never could sustain enough population to completely cottage it out. I suspect that cost me plenty over the full game.
Nice thing about a major gauntlet, plenty of time for another go at it.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
anita: we both got it done! that is the main thing. you honestly have NO idea how excited i am. i thought i'd never ever get a major done. i mean really! if i was in first place on the list i would not be any more thrilled than i am right now, and i ain't first, i am exactly in the middle spot .
hatty has this tendency to always found judaism and stick to it til 2050 it seems to me. asoka will change to free religion the turn after he builds spiral minaret just about (i've seen him change within 20 turns of building it, no kidding), but she just really sticks to her OR favorite civic (in warlords at least, in vanilla it's HR i think). in both my attempts i stayed NSR until most civs were in free religion, i just needed to get along with people so i didn't get any pacifism until later, and never any OR building bonuses. i rationalize with myself that the pac bonus is worth more later on when GAs cost more, but i'm probably just saying that to make myself feel better. i'm very much NOT like you, i do NOT want to go to war at any time in these games, so i go out of my way to please them all from turn -1 .
.hatty has this tendency to always found judaism and stick to it til 2050 it seems to me. asoka will change to free religion the turn after he builds spiral minaret just about (i've seen him change within 20 turns of building it, no kidding), but she just really sticks to her OR favorite civic (in warlords at least, in vanilla it's HR i think). in both my attempts i stayed NSR until most civs were in free religion, i just needed to get along with people so i didn't get any pacifism until later, and never any OR building bonuses. i rationalize with myself that the pac bonus is worth more later on when GAs cost more, but i'm probably just saying that to make myself feel better
. i'm very much NOT like you, i do NOT want to go to war at any time in these games, so i go out of my way to please them all from turn -1 .AnitaGaribaldi
Warlord
I got a really good start this time. Four gems! 
I just could not believe that. The screenshot is inside the spoiler tag. The graphic quality is really bad, sorry. 
I'm buying a new video card soon. Money is not the problem, I just have a guilty feeling that I'm spending too much money into civ.
I just could not believe that. The screenshot is inside the spoiler tag. The graphic quality is really bad, sorry. I'm buying a new video card soon. Money is not the problem, I just have a guilty feeling that I'm spending too much money into civ.Spoiler :
You are right I tried inca yesterday 1540 finish my best (i killed 2 of my enemies), bu i have financial problems all over the game
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