The pre-AFSNES I.

The pre-AFSNES I.
Or, the “BT” portion.

Introduction

AFSNES I is a part of the name of my Advanced Fresh Start experiment, wherein the idea is to create a fairly advanced, yet highly original setting by the means of several BT updates (that is to say, comparatively concise updates covering large amounts of time, also known as pre-updates). Ideally, this should combine some of the best points of alternate history and fresh start NESes. We’ll see how this turns out. Anyway, this is the thread where said BT updates will take place, developing the backstory and the setting; the NES proper would start later, and probably not immediately after we’re done here. Still, might as well start now while the research and the ideas, as well as the excitement, are still fresh.

The individual BT updates would cover centuries, and their sum should probably cover over two millennia, though I am not sure – indeed, I don’t have much of a set goal in mind, although I am presently aiming for a level of development more or less equivalent to that of late Middle Ages, technologically, politically and culturally. Obviously, a complete hit is unlikely and even undesirable, and I will probably end up deciding when to stop as I go.

Anyway, over this wide amount of time… a lot will happen. Technological ages will change, whole new religions will rise and spread or wither, peoples would move, cultures would evolve and as for empires, they would obviously rise and fall several times. Obviously, the very scope of the updates will limit the amount of player control over the minute details of their nation’s development, and over some of the more important stuff as well. Still, there wouldn’t be much of a point in this thread if I didn’t want the players to play a very important role in the development of this NES setting.

Civilisations, Civilised Zones

To join this pre-NES, simply take a civilisation. Except it is not that simple.

First of all, it is usually advisable for you to create a new civilisation of your own. In the beginning, there are no civilisations whatsoever, so that’s your only choice. There are no stats on this stage, so to create a civilisation, simply write about it, giving some general description of its initial state. When deciding what civilisation to pick, make sure to consult the Civilised Zones (CZ) map. The red zones signify areas of old civilisation, where things will generally tend to be more advanced, but also often falling behind and in some cases economically-exhausted (that is mostly true for Crete, southern Mesopotamia and Indus Valley). That is by no means a condemnation, but it is a challenge in and of itself. The green zones, meanwhile, will have more primitive, but younger and so usually more vigorous civilisations. They also tend to be on the fringes of civilisation – that means both better expansion opportunities and more serious potential barbarian threats. Take note also of the civilisations already in existence (or, in this first stage, of those that have already been claimed); it is usually not advisable to start near another player civilisation, because neighbours have higher chances of being destroyed or assimilated. If you want to start in a non-CZ region, well, talk to me about it and maybe we will work something out, but this will usually be even more challenging.

Speaking of which, foreign conquest or internal disintegration are viable threats to any civilisation at any time, but are not necessarily lethal; even your state ceases to exist in a BT update, a successor state may well arise. Keep that in mind. Still, that is no guarantee, and sometimes a loss is a loss; be prepared for that. If you lose, you could always switch to another civilisation or start a new one. You might also try an exodus or rebellion or some such, but those rarely work out too well when things are far gone.

Note also that it is not necessarily good to join in on the first turn. As time goes, many new CZs will become available, with new peoples and cultures. Just keep that in mind.

About the civilisations themselves – you should pick a historical, quasi-historical or althistorical civilisation; what is most important is that it should be feasible for this time, but originality is also good.

Updates, Orders, Global Problems

Each update will cover a long period of time; the exact length of said period will vary from turn to turn, and will probably decrease over time. Each will feature an age of human history. What will happen within that time will depend on many factors, but to a large extent it will be influenced by your orders.

Your order sets for those “BT” updates are expected to be very broad and general; it would be simply impractical and senseless of you to cover every minute detail of your country’s development, considering that you never know in what way said development may be radically derailed over the course of the update. The main function of those orders is for you to give me some general idea about what directions you want your civilisation to develop in during the update, preferably covering all spheres (social, political, economical, cultural and if necessary military). Still, you could put almost anything in those orders, though it is never guaranteed that any of it would matter at all. One sphere in which I will usually appreciate some detail would be that of culture, especially if your civilisation is an ahistorical one; if only because this is most likely to have an immediately-noticeable long-term influence.

Aside from that, it might also be a good idea to give me some guidelines on how to deal with unexpected difficulties. However, for the most part these difficulties are called unexpected for a reason. Within the update’s span, many problems will arise, and some of them will be significant enough to qualify as “global problems”, even if that really is a misnomer in most cases. Anyway, if no way of dealing with whatever problem happens to come up is found within the orders, I will simply PM and give you a choice of reactions. It is preferred that you reply fast; if that is impossible or if you take too long, I will simply decide it myself based on the general style of your orders and other such stuff. Still, this should allow you some greater influence.

Lastly, I fear I cannot guarantee a stable updating schedule; it will really be very circumstantial, and my circumstances free time-wise are a bit uncertain, so it would be wisest to improvise. Still, I will try to keep you appraised on when the next deadline is.

Constraints

Apart from the aforementioned Civilised Zones, there are other OTL-based constraints as well, though they shouldn’t really be too, well, constraining.

Firstly, it is presumed that Palace Minoa, Old Kingdom Egypt, Sumeria and Indus Valley Civilisation all existed and were generally like in OTL (and the same probably goes for other contemporary cultures). However, the assorted details, including cultural ones, may vary, as would their long-term survival and influence – how exactly largely depends on the players.

Secondly, the general ethnocultural distribution in the beginning will in general be as in OTL, though it is likely to diverge as time goes. The point is, no, you can’t have an Ottoman Empire in ancient Middle East, because the Turks are still in the Far East and not separated from their other Altaic brethren. Likewise, there are no Greeks or certain Greek-built cities in Egypt unless there is an explicit in-game reason for that to happen. And Islam doesn’t exist in 1000 BC neither; you could create a similar religion with such a name if you really want to, though, and are willing to write about it in sufficient detail. I generally don’t want anachronisms here as they tend to ruin the game.

Thirdly, climate change – and its influence on things like barbarians and agriculture – will remain largely the same as in OTL, at least to what extent I could trace it.

Aside from that, the only constraints would be those of realism, and that is rather more malleable.

Stories

Although certain story genres and/or formats will be made difficult to use at best by the scope of this pre-NES, stories still will be very welcome indeed, as they too will help flesh out the setting and define your nation’s culture.

Suggestions, Comments, Questions

I intend to create a plausible, original and detailed setting, so obviously your suggestions and questions (and maybe comments) would help me greatly as I strive to flesh this world out. As far as suggestions go – I will ofcourse be doing a fair amount of research in all relevant spheres as I go, but still, any good ideas for/information about NPC civilisations, technological developments, cultural and economic trends and suchlike could prove pretty useful – after all, I cannot find or come up with every tidbit of useful information, and I am sure the setting will be richer for this. So yes, all of this is encouraged, be it by PMs or in the thread.

Initial CZ Map.

To Be Redone.

For BT Update I

EDIT: The deadline is 15:00 GMT, Thursday.

The first update will cover time from somewhere in the end of the 3rd millennium BC to 1000 BC. During this time, the proto-civilisations mentioned in the rules would fall, and their legacies will be determined; some will have pretty continuous successor states, while others will be lost to all but the future archeologists. The next generation of kingdoms (especially but not solely in the Middle East) too will have their fair bit of troubles – technological progress will shake the late Bronze Age societies, warmongering kings will build and destroy entire states, exhaustion of certain resources will destroy trade networks and all of this combined with natural disasters will cause general chaos as barbarians will flood in from the fringes of civilisation. In other words, the world will be shaken and become as clay for you to mould your first civilisations from. Barbarian tribes, rebels and traditional elites alike – in their multitude and variety – should allow for a very wide choice, and the chaos might allow you to create some original ahistorical nations as well.

The nations created by you for this time period are rather unlikely to make it to NES Proper in their present form; but continuous or less so successor states are much more likely, and it is almost a given that those nations which make it to 1000 BC will leave at least some influence on regional and world culture and history. Obviously the events of this time will largely define those that will follow, especially as trade routes pick up again and with them, the cultural exchange between greater regions…

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For BT Update II

EDIT: The deadline is 15:00 GMT, Monday.

The second update should cover the first half of the first millennium BC. Trade networks and colonial empires would expand, but some of the latter would likely fall; old powers would fall into decay or perhaps gain a new leash on life, while new ones would emerge and perhaps rise to greatness unprecedented. What is for sure is that recent advances in military technology and political organisation are likely to allow the creation and long-term maintenance of bigger empires than ever before. No doubt such past precedents such as those of Sargon of Akkad, Mursili the Great and Eskander of Samarkand would also inspire aspiring conquerors.

At the same time, the trade networks would greatly spread the width of civilised zones, allowing new ones to arise under the influence of the old. Also, the technologies of advanced iron working and horse breeding will spread; this will help both the civilised imperial states and the barbarian hordes, especially as the superior horses will make the transit to a true nomadic lifestyle in the Great Steppe possible – this will both allow greater trans-Eurasian trade and the rise of steppe nomad empires, as well as the flight of the less fortunate nomad tribes with the purpose of taking some land and wealth off the civilised world. The coming time will therefore have plentiful opportunities, but also many dangers. Many of the smaller nations that exist in 1000 BC will be consumed or displaced five hundred years later. Then again, many new ones will be able to arise along the spreading borders of civilisation. As for the great empires of the day, they too shall face great perils in the times yet to come.

Be prepared.

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For BT Update III

EDIT: The deadline is 15:00 GMT, Saturday.

The third update should cover a shorter time period still, from 500 BC to 200 BC. It is generally characterised by a warm climate, a high population, rising trade routes and spreading cultures. Great technological progress and intellectual flowering in the main civilisation centres (such as Danipaguache, Tartessos, Ur, Avyaktaraga and Xishan) is likely to occur as well; old philosophies and religions will gain further development, and new ones would appear likewise. Also there will be violence, but that goes without saying; armies and navies will become bigger and better than ever before, and this, combined with new feats of engineering, should allow new conquerors to go further than any had gone before them. And that, in all likelihood, means trouble – both for the old established empires and for the little states of the world.

In many regards, this would be the end of the beginning of this world’s formative period, as those civilisations that will survive its great wars and cataclysms in a strong enough position will need not worry for the survival of at least some elements of their culture, as well as their successor states, distant or not. It is, ofcourse, also important to remember that the lull in barbarian activity during this period is a quiet before the storm, as new tribes adapt a migratory lifestyle, making the Steppe even more chaotic than before and so speeding up the great movements of peoples – eventually forcing them to attack the civilised regions.

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For BT Update IV

EDIT: The deadline is 15:00 GMT, Friday.

The fourth update will cover the years 200 BC-100 AD, the next part of the age of empires that had begun over the past few centuries. It is hard to define this period properly, and also quite difficult to predict its events; in some places and at some dates it might be a time of consolidation and reconstruction, but elsewhere and elsewhen it will also see fresh warfare on a greater scale than ever before, and even more ruinous barbarian migrations and invasions than those seen in the 5th century BC. And meanwhile, the younger and smaller civilisations will be particularily threatened with extinction, though the old empires too will face numerous challenges which might just turn out to be lethal – perhaps the direst of those would be time itself, as many of the mighty states had grown stagnant and even backwards when compared to some of the more vigorous new states around.

Civilisation’s spread should continue during this age, as should cultural exchange and general advancement. This will create great potential for dynamicity, though often weakening the social order, and might result in breakthroughs technological or even religious on the crossroads of the great civilisations that had by now arisen.

In the end, such an ambigous period could either be very boring and anticlimactic, or pivotal to further development of world history.

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For BT Update V

EDIT: The deadline is 15:00 GMT, Wednesday.

The fifth update will cover the years 100-400 AD. The greater empires that arose in the preceding Age of Conquerors will begin (or continue) to decay and stagnate; perhaps they would crumble altogether or be conquered, or maybe they could yet be revived. At any rate, even though the great trade network that had crumbled around the past millennium’s end is now picking up again, the wars, diseases, revolts, natural disasters, neglect of old irrigation and other public works, environmental changes (such as cooling of the climate, salination and deforestation), general stagnancy and other factors (including the aforementioned trade collapse) have resulted in a thorough decline of the economy in traditional regions. That results in greater social and political strife, and even when taken alone threatens the civilised world with a dark age. And at the same time, the barbarian raids and invasions of the past few centuries, terrifying in their own right… had been merely the beginning – natural factors and intertribal strife have ensured that the zenith of barbarian invasions will arrive during this period.

There is every reason to be pessimistic about this coming period, but not all is as bad as it may seem; for this is also a time for great technological innovations, as well as new cultural advances, with the rise of new religious movements spreading with the gradually reviving trade routes. And after all, without a dark age there can be no renaissance...

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For BT Update VI

EDIT: The deadline is 15:00 GMT, Thursday (the 2nd of August).

The sixth update will cover, predictably enough, the years 400-700 AD. Even though civilisation had weathered the direst storms and began to recover somewhat from the barbarian invasions and great wars of the preceding era, the challenges are no lesser now; more and more barbarians arrive from the steppe and the northlands, and new conflicts have arisen in the ashes of the old. As much as in any previous time, there will be war, as a new wave attacks the walls of civilisation.

Still, the great technological and cultural advances of the last few centuries will not be forgotten, and are likely to be improved upon. In Danipaguache, Arganthopolis, Mumbai and Guangling, great scientific schools have by now risen to prominence, preserving and spreading knowledge, and inspiring further innovation. Likewise, the great philosophical and religious texts are preserved in libraries and temples in Sakbe, Liguria, Akkad, Tibet and Luoyang.

Note – this is probably the second to last of the BT updates.

First post?

I'm very interested! I'll be attempting to join once ive read the rules properly.

I'd advise you to look in the other thread first. This is the pre-NES; AFSNES I itself will have different rules, obviously.

Still, I'll be glad to have you on board if you want to join.

I think I'll join this...

I need an NES to replace Azale's, it seems rather dead anyways.

It's not even in hibernation, people just refuse to send orders

Will construct something soon, my anti-virus thing isnt letting me see attachments for some stupid reason.

EDIT: I can't see the attachment das, can you upload it and use IMG tags?

EDIT2: Nevermind, BTM did it for me. 5 Azale points for you BTM!

Joe is defeinetely interested in some pre-civilizing. Not exactly sure what specifically you want us to do at this moment, though.

As tempted as I am to to design part of the new world again; I'd like to join as a Nubian Empire.

Thats where i'd like to start

anyway; I'll write a story or something about it tommorrow.

I'm fully aware that such a kingdom stands a good chance of getting killed by the Egyptions, but it helps the story aspect, and I can join elsewhere

I will be claiming a nation in Israel. Story to come.

I claim the civilization of Samarkand...in SAMARKAND!

Tiahuanaco (coast parallel to Lake Titicaca). Southern Peru zone.

It's not even in hibernation, people just refuse to send orders

Click to expand...

My orders were in a week ago . Something you can't claim.

~Darkening~ said:

My orders were in a week ago . Something you can't claim.

Click to expand...

Don't rolleyes me. 6/25 orders is ridiculous on any level.


@das, are we supposed to even claim anything?

Totally mine!

Lurking...

I guess I'll grab sicily then, until we find out what we are supposed to do.

This looks interesting. I'll probably have a civ idea for the location of Rome soon... for now, I call dibs!

I was thinking of making Reme (Remus instead of Romulus), but I realized that we're not in that timeframe yet.

Splime said:

This looks interesting. I'll probably have a civ idea for the location of Rome soon... for now, I call dibs!

I was thinking of making Reme (Remus instead of Romulus), but I realized that we're not in that timeframe yet.

Click to expand...

If you really want to get crucified by Dachs, go for it.

Playing as the Samnites is fun as well, if you want alternate Romes.