Wow....plus SMAC mod reborn!

Religion

For religion, you could use actual religions or political philosophy. A good idea is to divide them into 2 categories;
“Old earth Religion/philosophy “ and “ Centauri religion/Philosophy”
I would just use religion to represent the ideologies of the various factions - Peacekeepers, University, Believers, etc.

The religions themselves can carry bonuses and penalties, or they could allow unique buildings - extra-powerful markets for Morgan Industries, better barracks for the Spartans.

There are seven factions and seven religions, aren't there? Not to mention a number of game concepts that each "religion" can be paired with: :science:, :hammers:, :strength:, :culture:, :gold:, :health:, :traderoute:, &c.

(Though I find the Peacekeepers and Believers hard to place - the later especially as you don't want to just duplicate the Spartans)

Of course, this would mean that you could have the Gaians with bonuses meant for the Hive, but I think it would add another interesting dimension - taking over your opponents through ideology rather than just through force. It would work well with a mechanic for also purging "religions" from your bases (I believe I've already seen an "inquisitor" mod around).
 
So how's progress? When do you think you'll finish this?

I can't wait!! :drool:
 
We hope to release an alpha version(will require BtS to play) before the end of the summer.
 
Hey guys,

wish you the best luck, I'll be excited to play.:goodjob:

One thought (this must have come up during your discussions, but anyway):
I always thought how cool it would be to have a "normal" civ session, and when you end your game via (extended) space race, you continue the game in Alpha Centauri - with input from your "normal" civ session. Meaning, the size and extent of your ship would influence your starting power in SMAC, your government, religion, economy, e.g. environmentalism... (counted for how long did you run them) would set your starting faction/ideology in SMAC, your final line of discovered technologies would carry on to give a base to your SMAC research... I think you get the idea.
I think (with the current possibilities of civ IV,) this can be done.

Anyway, keep up the good work!!!
 
I think BtS is going to give you guys a nice shot in the arm... there seems to be alot of capabilities in the core game, as well as alot of space graphics that you guys could use towards the next SMAC.

It may be a while off... but I can't wait! :)
 
One thought (this must have come up during your discussions, but anyway):
I always thought how cool it would be to have a "normal" civ session, and when you end your game via (extended) space race, you continue the game in Alpha Centauri - with input from your "normal" civ session. Meaning, the size and extent of your ship would influence your starting power in SMAC, your government, religion, economy, e.g. environmentalism... (counted for how long did you run them) would set your starting faction/ideology in SMAC, your final line of discovered technologies would carry on to give a base to your SMAC research... I think you get the idea.
I think (with the current possibilities of civ IV,) this can be done

I have thought of this and it would be possible. The main problem is I think most people would rather skip the "normal" civ session and thus I don't think it is worth the effort to incorporate it.

I think BtS is going to give you guys a nice shot in the arm... there seems to be alot of capabilities in the core game, as well as alot of space graphics that you guys could use towards the next SMAC.

Yes, BtS will really help us do allot of things as well as incorporate ideas that wouldn't have really been possible before BtS.
 
Religions as Great Political Movements.

Great Prophets -> Great Politicians.

An idea for five political movements that would fit within every "core" ideology:

Unitarians (Humanity must become one, before Earth happens again.)
Independence (Let each branch of Humanity go it's own way.)
Genesis (Rebuild Humanity for the new Planet.)
Purists (Humanity must be preserved as-is.)
Turing (Computers are the Heirs of Humanity.)
 
if you guys get anything close to a releasable alpha by the end of summer... I will guarantee to shave my head....

If you don't you all gotta shave yours...
 
I have a lot to type here, and I have no idea if it's even worthwhile to do so. (Especially with what looks like news of a version of C4AC being ready by the end of the summer). I just hope I can be forgiven for this post if it causes more harm than good. Like through stretching the page or something.

Ever since I heard of the plans to mod Civ4 into SMAC/X, I have eagerly observed the progress and awaited the opportunity to find a way to discuss and/or contribute to the project. In November and December 2006, I made myself known on Apolyton for a brief time regarding trying to perfect the tech tree. I had plans to reoganize the techs in standard Alien Crossfire and present my efforts. But for reasons unknown even to me, I couldn't get around to it. I'm hoping that won't happen a second time.

Like in my previous efforts, my two largest priorities are regulating the degrees of freedom in the tree and preventing dead-end techs. Make the tree too thick and stuff can be chased after out of order, or people might get confused by trying to scroll through too many options. Make it too narrow and there aren't enough choices, players can't really prioritize, etc. While my issue with dead-end techs is that if their immediate benefits aren't useful in a game, it can't rely on being useful later on. And I've been known to try to plan for tech trees of indefinite length, for which dead-end techs could potentially pile on until one has to scroll indefinitely to seek that one desired tech advance. I don't want something like that to happen.

After my last attempts at proposing a tech tree for C4AC, my considerations for what makes a tree of certain width switched over to how many choices one has on average. I set up a program that would research tech advances at random. (I chose at random because ideally the techs and their applications would be balanced enough that they have even chances of being the best option in any situation.) Anyway, I have the program go through a test tech tree anywhere from 10000 to a million times. Each time it'd take the number of options for the next tech to be research, convert it to a number proportional to the natural log, and add them together. Seeking a geometric mean of how many options are available after a certain number of tech advances have been researched, I then plotted the numbers into Excel, divided them by how many times the program went through the tree, and converted them back. For the tech trees of SMAC and Civ4, I've gotten charts like these:
Spoiler :

What I'd ideally like to see is a tree that has its average number of choices start at 6 and stay at the 5-7 range until the late game. ...the narrowness of the tree always gravitates toward the number of "Future Tech" or "Transcendent Thought" techs available.

Recently I decided to try a go at seeing if I could create a tech tree based somewhat off Maniac's SManiac, somewhat off normal SMAC/X, and somewhat off a few of my own ideas, mostly renaming a bunch of the tech advances like Neurology and Cybernetics. I managed to shove in 94 advances, and yes, everything still ultimately leads to Transcendent Thought. My tech tree also relies on a few assumptions, like many factions would start off with three tier-1 advances each while some would start with a teir-1 advance and a tier-2 advance. This would be particularly important for the Gaians, Planet Cult, and Pirates. Sea Colony Pods I'd prefer in Doctrine: Flexibility (or equivalent) and Centauri Ecology in my current proposal tree requires Biogenetics or Doctrine: Mobility. (In a random collecting of techs in SMAC, Centauri Ecology averages as a later research than the other six. And I chose to have only six tier-1 techs. Also, I took Progenitor Psych out of the tree.)

Of course, I'm sure all of you have your own ideas of what techs should be in the game, in what order they should show up on average, and what advances they should probably be related to. With that information I could then jumble the advances together, use my program to make sure the tree isn't going haywire somewhere (like the very beginning), and use another modified version of the program to figure out how much research would go in before one gets a certain advance. Thus working to place the advances in a desirable order.

A few things to keep in mind:
Suppose you have techs A, B, C, D, and E. C requires A or B. D requires A. E requires A and B. It's easier to get C than D than E.
If B requires A and C requires A or B, C essentially doesn't require B at all.
If B requires A and C requires A and B, it's redundant to say C requires A. Every tech tree I've seen made by the professionals has made this mistake, even Civ4 with Nationalism -> Constitution -> Corporation -> Assembly Line -> Fascism.

Anyway, the tech tree I've come to pull together is as follows. Feel free to be struck with awe, disgust, both, neither, something in between, or something else entirely.
Spoiler :
0 - Biogenetics - none
1 - Doctrine: Mobility - none
2 - Fission Power - none
3 - Industrial Base - none
4 - Information Networks - none
5 - Social Psych - none
6 - Centauri Ecology - Biogenetics or Doctrine Mobility
7 - Power Economics - Fission Power or Industrial Base
8 - Doctrine: Flexibility - Doctrine: Mobility
9 - Ethical Calculus - Social Psych
10 - Planetary Networks - Information Networks
11 - Polymorphic Software - Information Networks and (Doctrine: Mobility or Industrial Base)
12 - Lasers - Fission Power and Industrial Base
13 - Neurology - Biogenetics and Social Psych
14 - Gene Splicing - Biogenetics and (Ethical Calculus or Planetary Networks)
15 - Chaos Theory - Fission and (Planetary Networks or Polymorphic Software)
16 - Field Modulation - Biogenetics and Doctrine: Flexibility
17 - Plasma Chemistry - Lasers and Information Networks
18 - Automation - Planetary Networks and Industrial Base
19 - Doctrine: Loyalty - Ethical Calculus and Doctrine: Mobility
20 - Adaptive Economics - Power Economics and (Centauri Ecology or Doctrine: Flexibility)
21 - Centauri Empathy - Neurology and Centauri Ecology
22 - Applied Rocketry - Lasers and Polymorphic Software
23 - Game Theory - Polymorphic Software and (Chaos Theory or Adaptive Economics)
24 - Intellectual Integrity - Doctrine: Loyalty and Doctrine: Flexibility
25 - Xenobiology - Centauri Empathy and Gene Splicing
26 - Ecological Engineering - Gene Splicing and Centauri Ecology
27 - Zero Point Energy - Chaos Theory and Power Economics
28 - Composites - Plasma Chemistry and Doctrine: Flexibility
29 - Neural Grafting - Automation and Neurology
30 - Machine Resonance - Field Modulation and Applied Rocketry
31 - Nano-Fibers - Automation and Plasma Chemistry
32 - Optical Computers - Lasers and (Game Theory or Zero-Point Energy)
33 - Superconductors - Composites or Nano-Fibers
34 - Bio-Engineering - Gene Splicing and (Neural Grafting or Xenobiology)
35 - Cyberethics - Intellectual Integrity and Planetary Networks
36 - Doctrine: Initiative - Machine Resonance and (Intellectual Integrity or Composites)
37 - Bioadaptive Resonance - Xenobiology and Field Modulation
38 - Environmental Economics - Ecological Engineering and Adaptive Economics
39 - Doctrine: Air Power - Composites and Applied Rocketry
40 - Monopole Magnets - Nano-Fibers and Composites
41 - Centauri Meditation - Centauri Empathy and (Bioadaptive Resonance or Environmental Economics)
42 - Superstring Theory - Machine Resonance and (Cyberethics or Monopole Magnets)
43 - Mutagens - Bio-Engineering and Doctrine: Loyalty
44 - Mental Harmonics - Bioadaptive Resonance and Intellectual Integrity
45 - Planetary Economics - Environmental Economics and Game Theory
46 - Force Fields - Monopole Magnets and Zero Point Energy
47 - Fusion Power - Superconductors and Optical Computers
48 - Pre-Sentient Algorithms - Cyberethics and Optical Computers
49 - Nanominiaturization - Monopole Magnets and Superconductors
50 - Quantum Relativity - Game Theory and (Superstring Theory or Force Fields)
51 - Mind/Machine Interface - Pre-Sentient Algorithms and Neural Grafting
52 - Centauri Genetics - Centauri Meditation and Bio-Engineering
53 - Biomachinery - Mutagens and Doctrine: Initiative
54 - N-Space Compression - Force Fields and Bioadaptive Resonance
55 - Satellites - Fusion Power and Doctrine: Air Power
56 - Nanometallurgy - Nanominiaturization and Doctrine: Initiative
57 - Probability Mechanics - Pre-Sentient Algorithms and Force Fields
58 - Super Terraforming - Planetary Economics and (Centauri Genetics or Biomachinery)
59 - Smart Materials - Superstring Theory and (Nanometallurgy or Probability Mechanics)
60 - Quantum Computers - Quantum Relativity and Pre-Sentient Algorithms
61 - Centauri Psi - Centauri Genetics and Mental Harmonics
62 - Industrial Nanorobotics - Nanometallurgy and Fusion Power
63 - Cybernetics - Mind/Machine Interface and (Nanometallurgy or Biomachinery)
64 - Advanced Spaceflight - Satellites and (Mind/Machine Interface or N-Space Compression
65 - Unified Field Theory - Probability Mechanics and Quantum Relativity
66 - Nanotech Biology - Industrial Nanorobotics and Biomachinery
67 - Graviton Theory - Unified Field Theory and Satellites
68 - Quantum Power - Smart Materials and (Quantum Computers or Unified Field Theory)
69 - Antimatter - Advanced Spaceflight and (Smart Materials or Industrial Nanorobotics)
70 - Secrets of Alpha Centauri - Centauri Psi and Super Terraforming
71 - Matter Compression - Industrial Nanorobotics and Smart Materials
72 - Digital Sentience - Cybernetics and Quantum Computers
73 - The Will to Power - Cybernetics and Centauri Psi
74 - Sentient Resonance - Digital Sentience and N-Space Compression
75 - Matter Editation - Nanotech Biology and Quantum computers
76 - Interplanetary Flight - Graviton theory and Advanced Spaceflight
77 - Sociometrics - Digital Sentience and Super Terraforming
78 - Secrets of Creation - The Will to Power and Unified Field Theory
79 - Super Tensile Solids - Matter Compression and (Quantum Power or Antimatter)
80 - Quantum Machinery - Quantum Power and Antimatter
81 - Self Aware Machines - Digital Sentience and Nanotech Biology
82 - Mental Dynamics - The Will to Power and Secrets of Alpha Centauri
83 - Gravetomagnetism - Self-aware Machines and Graviton Theory
84 - Secrets of the Manifolds - Sentient Resonance and Secrets of Alpha Centauri
85 - Teleportation - Matter Editation and (Self Aware Machines or Mental Dynamics)
86 - Femtotechnology - Quantum Machinery and Super Tensile Solids
87 - Eudaimonia - Mental Dynamics and Sociometrics
88 - Singularity Mechanics - Gravetomagnetism and Interplanetary Flight
89 - Temporal Mechanics - Teleportaion and Secrets of Creation
90 - String Resonance - Femtotechnology and Secrets of the Manifolds
91 - Threshold of Transcendence - Temporal Mechanics and Eudaimonia
92 - Controlled Singularity - String Resonance and Singularity Mechanics
93 - Transcendent Thought - Controlled Singularity and Threshold of Transcendence

I think others may need to determine the applications of each advance. I might help with some ideas like a Network Satellite (research) or Graviton Park (happiness and industry). I suppose a major recommendation of mine is for each advance to have the same benefit, or for those benefits to gradually increase along with the progression of the game. So Optical Computers had better provide a benefit right away, whether it be a direct research boost, a second version of the network node, a new unit, or a combination of those. It'd also do best that each tech provide at least one benefit that doesn't rely on getting there first, lacking a superior unit, a certain victory condition, or having a tech advance that doesn't lead to it. So some changes would have to be made to techs like Biomachinery, Secrets of Creation, Threshold of Transcendence, and Secrets of the Manifolds.

By the way, here's a graph for average number of choices across my rough draft tech tree.
Spoiler :

I suppose this is the point where I wait and see if any of my ideas have any use here? ^^;;;;
 
Hey guys..Take as long as you need. Those of us who have waited this long can continue to wait longer.

I just hope it's a new version of everything I've always loved from the original ACT
 
I have a lot to type here, and I have no idea if it's even worthwhile to do so. (Especially with what looks like news of a version of C4AC being ready by the end of the summer).

Yeah we already have a rather concrete tech tree ourselves. Would love to hear your comments about it though when time comes.

For the tech trees of SMAC and Civ4, I've gotten charts like these:

Have you ever made such a chart for SMAniaC? I'm curious how it would look. :mischief:

Anyway, the tech tree I've come to pull together is as follows.

Do you have an overview on what techs a tech leads to? Myself I'm rather obsessed with each tech leading to two other techs.
 
Yeah we already have a rather concrete tech tree ourselves. Would love to hear your comments about it though when time comes.
I look forward to seeing it. ^^
Have you ever made such a chart for SMAniaC? I'm curious how it would look. :mischief:
Not yet. But if I start now and commit to it, I might be able to have something to show within the next six hours.
Do you have an overview on what techs a tech leads to? Myself I'm rather obsessed with each tech leading to two other techs.
For my tree? Not at the moment. Although that may take even less time than the chart.
 
Not yet. But if I start now and commit to it, I might be able to have something to show within the next six hours.

Oh if it takes lots of time, don't need to bother. These days I'm not so happy with the SMAniaC tech tree anymore anyway. Then again, it's hard to make something decent with the heavy limitations imposed by SMAC. Planetfall's tech tree will definitely turn out much better I hope. :)
 
Oh if it takes lots of time, don't need to bother. These days I'm not so happy with the SMAniaC tech tree anymore anyway. Then again, it's hard to make something decent with the heavy limitations imposed by SMAC. Planetfall's tech tree will definitely turn out much better I hope. :)

Limits of the SMAC coding considered, I think you did a decent job there. I probably would've still tried to get Transcendent Thought to require everything, but that's probably just me. ^^; ...Part of me would still like to see what that graph may look like. If only I could commit to stuff like that better. ...whatever.

With that tech tree I proposed, here's the list of advances and what each one leads to.
Spoiler :
Biogenetics - Centauri Ecology*, Neurology, Gene Splicing, Field Modulation
Doctrine: Mobility - Centauri Ecology*, Doctrine: Flexibility, Polymorphic Software*, Doctrine: Loyalty
Fission Power - Power Economics*, Lasers, Chaos Theory
Industrial Base - Power Economics*, Polymorphic Software*, Lasers, Industrial Automation
Information Networks - Planetary Networks, Polymorphic Software, Plasma Chemistry
Social Psych - Ethical Calculus, Neurology
Centauri Ecology - Adaptive Economics*, Centauri Empathy, Ecological Engineering
Power Economics - Adaptive Economics, Zero Point Energy
Doctrine: Flexibility - Field Modulation, Adaptive Economics*, Intellectual Integrity, Composites
Ethical Calculus - Gene Splicing*, Doctrine: Loyalty
Planetary Networks - Gene Splicing*, Chaos Theory*, Automation, Cyberethics
Polymorphic Software - Chaos Theory*, Applied Rocketry, Game Theory
Lasers - Plasma Chemistry, Applied Rocketry, Optical Computers
Neurology - Centauri Empathy, Neural Grafting
Gene Splicing - Xenobiology*, Ecological Engineering, Bio-Engineering
Chaos Theory - Game Theory*, Zero Point Energy
Field Modulation - Xenobiology*, Machine Resonance, Bioadaptive Resonance
Plasma Chemistry - Composites, Nano-Fibers
Automation - Neural Grafting, Nano-Fibers
Doctrine: Loyalty - Intellectual Integrity, Mutagens
Adaptive Economics - Environmental Economics
Centauri Empathy - Xenobiology, Centauri Meditation
Applied Rocketry - Machine Resonance, Doctrine: Air Power
Game Theory - Optical Computers*, Planetary Economics, Quantum Relativity
Intellectual Integrity - Cyberethics, Doctrine: Initiative*, Mental Harmonics
Xenobiology - Bio-Engineering*, Bio-Adaptive Resonance
Ecological Engineering - Environmental Economics
Zero Point Energy - Optical Computers*, Force Fields
Composites - Superconductors*, Doctrine: Initiative*, Doctrine: Air Power, Monopole Magnets
Neural Grafting - Bio-Engineering*, Mind/Machine Interface
Machine Resonance - Doctrine: Initiative, Superstring Theory
Nano-Fibers - Superconductors*, Monopole Magnets
Optical Computers - Fusion Power, Pre-Sentient Algorithms
Superconductors - Fusion Power, Nanominiaturization
Bio-Engineering - Mutagens, Centauri Genetics
Cyberethics - Superstring Theory*, Pre-Sentient Algorithms
Doctrine: Initiative - Biomachinery, Nanometallurgy
Bioadaptive Resonance - Centauri Meditation*, Mental Harmonics, N-Space Compression
Environmental Economics - Centauri Meditation*, Planetary Economics
Doctrine: Air Power - Satellites
Monopole Magnets - Superstring Theory*, Force Fields, Nanominiaturization
Centauri Meditation - Centauri Genetics
Superstring Theory - Quantum Relativity*, Smart Materials
Mutagens - Biomachinery
Mental Harmonics - Centauri Psi
Planetary Economics - Super Terraforming
Force Fields - Quantum Relativity*, N-Space Compression, Probability Mechanics
Fusion Power - Satellites, Industrial Nanorobotics
Pre-Sentient Algorithms - Mind/Machine Interface, Probability Mechanics, Quantum Computers
Nanominiaturization - Nanometallugry
Quantum Relativity - Quantum Computers, Unified Field Theory
Mind/Machine Interface - Cybernetics, Advanced Spaceflight*
Centauri Genetics - Super Terraforming*, Centauri Psi
Biomachinery - Super Terraforming*, Cybernetics*, Nanotech Biology
N-Space Compression - Advanced Spaceflight*, Sentient Resonance
Satellites - Advanced Spaceflight, Graviton Theory
Nanometallurgy - Smart Materials*, Industrial Nanorobotics, Cybernetics*
Probability Mechanics - Smart Materials*, Unified Field Theory
Super Terraforming - Secrets of Alpha Centauri, Sociometrics
Smart Materials - Quantum Power, Antimatter*, Matter Compression
Quantum Computers - Quantum Power*, Digital Sentience, Matter Editation
Centauri Psi - Secrets of Alpha Centauri, The Will to Power
Industrial Nanorobotics - Nanotech Biology, Matter Editation
Cybernetics - Digital Sentience, The Will to Power
Advanced Spaceflight - Antimatter, Interplanetary Flight
Unified Field Theory - Graviton Theory, Quantum Power*, Secrets of Creation
Nanotech Biology - Matter Editation and Self Aware Machines
Graviton Theory - Interplanetary Flight, Gravetomagnetism
Quantum Power - Super Tensile Solids*, Quantum Machinery
Antimatter - Super Tensile Solids*, Quantum Machinery
Secrets of Alpha Centauri - Mental Dynamics, Secrets of the Manifolds
Matter Compression - Super Tensile Solids
Digital Sentience - Sentient Resonance, Sociometrics, Self-Aware Machines
The Will to Power - Secrets of Creation, Mental Dynamics
Sentient Resonance - Secrets of the Manifolds
Matter Editation - Teleportaion
Interplanetary Flight - Singularity Mechanics
Sociometrics - Eudaimonia
Secrets of Creation - Temporal Mechanics
Super Tensile Solids - Femtotechnology
Quantum Machinery - Femtotechnology
Self Aware Machines - Gravetomagnetism, Teleportaion*
Mental Dynamics - Teleportation*, Eudaimonia
Gravetomagnetism - Singularity Mechanics
Secrets of the Manifolds - String Resonance
Teleportation - Temporal Mechanics
Femtotechnology - String Resonance
Eudaimonia - Threshold of Transcendence
Singularity Mechanics - Controlled Singularity
Temporal Mechanics - Threshold of Transcendence
String Resonance - Controlled Singularity
Threshold of Transcendence - Transcendent Thought
Controlled Singularity - Transcendent Thought
Transcendent Thoguht - more Transcendent Thought

*OR-Prerequisite
 
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