SGOTM 05 - Murky Waters

Note, that if Alex can't build a 2nd city, then barbs won't appear till Qin or we settle another, right?
If you're talking about barb cities, yes the condition is 2 per civ on average.

Alex should be able to build a second city. Athens is only size 2, so he is building a settler (or has a really lousy location; does anybody know if Gyathaar hates Alex :lol:).
And the CIV AI does not build a settler if no settling location is possible (in contrast to civ3).
 
Okay, if there are no objections or concerns, I'll go ahead and finish my turnset which will bring us to the revolt to slavery, I think. So I'll finish the Revolt so we have a fresh screen-full of data to absorb.

That means Agri, settler(most).

I'll be playing about 2 am GMT

Note, that if Alex can't build a 2nd city, then barbs won't appear till Qin or we settle another, right?

I think its an average of 1 1/2 cities per civ isn't it? Don't know if our cities count as we are team Barb (klarius?)

Don't forget to check each turn if the AI will accept peace (think of it as diploMM ;) )
 
Well, dang, let's crank out some cities and get the barbs populating that big huge empty continent... :crazyeye:
That's still probably only 4 barb cities which could spawn there (note 110 unowned tiles per barb city). And the RNG may have a word in that also (7% probability per turn).

But another pretty interesting thing is that the 110 tiles are cut by a factor of 3 for empty or barb only islands (so 36).
So we should e.g. think of not capture Saladins island (probably no 110 unowned tiles), but raze everything.

If one city has spawned I think we could gift the barbs settlers and they would settle them, taking crappy land w/o us having to pay maintenance.
 
If one city has spawned I think we could gift the barbs settlers and they would settle them, taking crappy land w/o us having to pay maintenance.
We should run a quick test on this (gifting settlers). I thought we shared their maintenance or something like that?
 
...If one city has spawned I think we could gift the barbs settlers and they would settle them, taking crappy land w/o us having to pay maintenance.

klarius, did you just suggest that we go for the forbidden-victory-condition by gifting settlers to the barbarians? If so, stonehenge becomes top priority. It's brilliant if it works...
 
klarius, did you just suggest that we go for the forbidden-victory-condition by gifting settlers to the barbarians? If so, stonehenge becomes top priority. It's brilliant if it works...
Well, even if we don't go for the ***, it would still be nice if we could occupy bad lands with our friends and don't have to pay maintenance or constantly raze new settlements.
 
But another pretty interesting thing is that the 110 tiles are cut by a factor of 3 for empty or barb only islands (so 36).
Does our island count as empty for this? In which case, could the barbs settle the gold (or copper) after all?
 
klarius, did you just suggest that we go for the forbidden-victory-condition by gifting settlers to the barbarians? If so, stonehenge becomes top priority. It's brilliant if it works...
Even I concede that that would be a good reason to build SH ;)

EDIT: or just get a religion.......
 
No our island is not empty or barbarian. It's the player here not the team. That's why I said to raze cities not capture.

And settler gifting doesn't work at least in my quick test. The barbs don't accept the settler, probably because they think they are in financial trouble (ignoring that financial trouble doesn't mean anything for them).
 
And settler gifting doesn't work at least in my quick test. The barbs don't accept the settler, probably because they think they are in financial trouble (ignoring that financial trouble doesn't mean anything for them).

Not only that - the barbs won't accept any unit gifts (even if you set the barbs up with a whole bunch of gold in WB first) - so we can't gift them a SOD either.

And if a barb settler is created in WB it just hunkers down in the nearest barb town.

Pity as it was a great idea :goodjob:
 
2530bc played 9 more turns, 20t total. Here's the log (don't call ME a slouch):
Spoiler :
Here is your Session Turn Log from 2800 BC to 2530 BC:
Turn 46, 2620 BC: You have discovered Agriculture!
Turn 47, 2590 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 47, 2590 BC: Temujin adopts Slavery!
Turn 47, 2590 BC: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.
Where we stand:
Fishing 105/117:science: @15:science:/t
Settler 123/150:hammers: @7:hammers:/t
banana farm 3/8t
culture 94/150:culture:

Visible land tiles:
I counted 1028 of 1081 visible land tiles. About 50 unaccounted for.
The Continent has 671+ (still hidden beneath Toku).
Temujin: 78 tiles
Sal: ~97
Qin: ~148 (127 still vacant)
W Islands: ~15
ALex: 5+
Alex S: 18+

Culture Bridges
Possible Culture bridge to W.
Qin starting to look isolated, but still uncertain (50 tiles can string a long strand of Gyathaar spaghetti).

Barbs
Appeared in 2650bc.
Weak axeman RNG for us so far. The one idiot axe who attacked unpromoted grass city Isa attacked across the river and lost easily.
Next few turnsets will be fun.

Battles:
Cyrus 2740 2710 2710 2560 2560
Isa 2710 2620 2530 2530
Sal 2710 2560 2560 2530 2530
Asoka 2770 2650 2560
Toku 2770 2770 2740 2740 2710 2680 2650 2650 2620 2590 2560
Qin 2650 2530
Alex

Techs
Wheel 10/175 @1/t
Masonry 8/234 @2/t
Hunting 77/117 @2/t
Myst 30/145 @1/t
AH 32/292 @2/t

Screenshots:
 
When to poprush settler:

If we poprush the settler on (relative values):
  • T0: +2:commerce: +2:food:
  • T1: +3:commerce: +6:food:
  • T2: +1:commerce: +2:food:
  • T3: +0:commerce: +0:food:
We should poprush the settler on Turn 1, that is, the turn that Fishing is completed.
 
Did you anger the RNG somehow ?
There should be 1/3 axes (ok also 1/3 warriors) and we got mostly archers.

Looks pretty straight forward for the next turn set (if nobody has any smart new ideas :)).
Capital should grow to 4 after settler, building another work boat and 1 garrison.
Research first 1 turn wheel, then back to fishing to nab another turn of free beakers (feeling greedy :)).
Worker finishes irrigation, does another irrigation on a jungle endangered river tile, then probably can start roading.
For clammy Drojf, I think worker first. Further digging in the code has shown that we pay 1g of number cities maintenance, if the second city grows to 2 (the algorithm is pretty obscure).
We want to be at 15 beakers for the pottery research (or do we want now something else first :confused:), so we make max use of 40% prerequisite bonus. 2 river tiles in the capital and the clam should do the trick. But we then need the odd turn at 0 research to pay for the distance maintenance in the second city.
 
Not only that - the barbs won't accept any unit gifts (even if you set the barbs up with a whole bunch of gold in WB first) - so we can't gift them a SOD either.

And if a barb settler is created in WB it just hunkers down in the nearest barb town.

Pity as it was a great idea :goodjob:
I didn't try the WB thing. How long did you wait after getting them a settler. A settler needs an escort to venture out and units assigned to city defense duty cannot do this (and as far as I know, the AIs don't change this assignment).
There might still be the chance that the barbs somehow get their finances in order. I think they need positive cash flow to accept units - every AI not just the barbs. Though I don't really know how they should do it.
 
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