Hackapell
Rhetorician
this is pretty cool; I'll be lurking here for a while!
Too bad I don't have BtS; then I would join you.
Too bad I don't have BtS; then I would join you.
Request for a Civ4: BtS "Intermediate" Succession Game
- Thread starter Jamesds
- Start date
Jamesds
Great Scientist
Zetetic Apparat
Warlord
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- 276
Next three added. It now demonstrates pretty well how largely unhelpful Demographics are, but it made me feel useful. 
Spoiler :
Zetetic Apparat
Warlord
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I'll add better economics – gold, science, espionage, culture per turn – next round. I'm sure you'll appreciate that I have more important things to do for the time being* that re-open those saves. Next tech and % complete is worth adding as well, I guess. Score would be a pretty good idea next time as well...
*Like get drunk over exam results and watch Daria.
Chopstyx added:
. Next tech and % complete is worth adding as well, I guess. Score would be a pretty good idea next time as well...*Like get drunk over exam results and watch Daria.
Chopstyx added:
Spoiler :
Putchuco
Addictionado
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I will probably have to agree that the Bowmen are not overly helpful here, we have no immediate warmonger to fear (like a Shaka or Monte), and we sit on a completely isolated island. I was preparing for more danger, which didn't materialize. I will still try to 'train' the Bowmen on some animals/barbs and have them ready.
The extra tech a hut popped for me is nice, but how much more is 90-110 gold worth, which will help to keep your research at 100% for a long time...?
How do we actually evaluate the saves now?
For me it will be very interesting to see how the different strategies play out:
- immediate worker at city size 1
- worker/settler at size 2, 3 or 4
That in itself is a very valuable lesson, and I would suggest we continue a couple of the current saves to see how they will compare in 40/80/120 from now. Here I expect to see if my current love growing the city first together with timed construction of useful buildings/units is any good.
Probably the most important question right now is where to settle the 2nd city. I would agree with what most of you said in that the floodplains are very good. I always go for those, and plant nice cottages on them, money and food for the ages.
Does it help at all right now to go after a copper city? As mentioned we have no immediate danger and the axemen wouldn't really do anything right now.
The other resources on the island don't make my heart flutter either and I would probably start thinking when to start a fleet and where to turn. Our chinese neighbor in the East will most probably be the first to get a visit, but who knows, maybe Shaka is just waiting around the corner...
The extra tech a hut popped for me is nice, but how much more is 90-110 gold worth, which will help to keep your research at 100% for a long time...?
How do we actually evaluate the saves now?
For me it will be very interesting to see how the different strategies play out:
- immediate worker at city size 1
- worker/settler at size 2, 3 or 4
That in itself is a very valuable lesson, and I would suggest we continue a couple of the current saves to see how they will compare in 40/80/120 from now. Here I expect to see if my current love growing the city first together with timed construction of useful buildings/units is any good.
Probably the most important question right now is where to settle the 2nd city. I would agree with what most of you said in that the floodplains are very good. I always go for those, and plant nice cottages on them, money and food for the ages.
Does it help at all right now to go after a copper city? As mentioned we have no immediate danger and the axemen wouldn't really do anything right now.
The other resources on the island don't make my heart flutter either and I would probably start thinking when to start a fleet and where to turn. Our chinese neighbor in the East will most probably be the first to get a visit, but who knows, maybe Shaka is just waiting around the corner...
Zetetic Apparat
Warlord
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Yes. It goes in the assets folder of BtS and should not effect Vanilla (which is your fear, right?).
Putchuco, I'm still not entirely sure you understand. After rrau's go is in, we democratically select on game and we all play on from that. (Well, obviously, you're welcome to continue your own, if it's not continued by the group, alongside the common one, which I could imagine being interesting for yoou.)
Putchuco, I'm still not entirely sure you understand. After rrau's go is in, we democratically select on game and we all play on from that. (Well, obviously, you're welcome to continue your own, if it's not continued by the group, alongside the common one, which I could imagine being interesting for yoou.)
Putchuco
Addictionado
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Since Solver's unofficial patch is only one dll and needs to be placed into the Bts/Asset folder, I would say it can only affect BtS.
If you just find your current Civ4/Beyond the Sword/Assets folder (where you installed Civ4 and the extensions), just rename the existing Civ4...dll to something else (non-dll) and put the patch dll there. You don't need the cpp files, they're just for people who want to see the changes in the source code.
Putchuco
Addictionado
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No, no, I understood that part.
I'm trying to see how I can get the most for me out of this experiment.
If nobody objects I would like to continue my game (and play the chosen save, of course) and then compare as we go, where I could have done something better. My above-stated questions are really of interest to me, because I never start a worker on a size 1 city. Is that a mistake on my side? I hope to find out.
Zetetic Apparat
Warlord
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Right, sorry, good plan. 
4000bc Settle in place. Warrior heading to hut. Start worker. Research to mining.
3960bc Pop 81g from hut.
3760bc After learning mining and seeing we're fairly isolated, go for AH instead of BW (was planning on an early axe rush)
3520bc Pop 31g from hut
3280bc Learn AH. Start writing for sci boost since it appears we're alone.
3160bc Meet China
2680bc Finish writing and start BW.
turn 34 lost my warrior to a bear.
turn 40. First settler done and waiting on a warrior escort to build.
3960bc Pop 81g from hut.
3760bc After learning mining and seeing we're fairly isolated, go for AH instead of BW (was planning on an early axe rush)
3520bc Pop 31g from hut
3280bc Learn AH. Start writing for sci boost since it appears we're alone.
3160bc Meet China
2680bc Finish writing and start BW.
turn 34 lost my warrior to a bear.
turn 40. First settler done and waiting on a warrior escort to build.
Attachments
Jamesds
Great Scientist
Thanks for getting that in rrau, and chopstyx - so, all saves in within 11 hours of release, very good!
Putchuco, you wish to carry on your game which I see no problem with, as long as we all benefit in some way. How many turns were you thinking? If you wanted to continue for another 40 turns, well maybe we could all play for another 40 turns and see whether those who look weak now are actually going to be stronger as they progress. I feel that my game doesn't show it's potential yet, and maybe some extra turns would be fairer to everyone.
What do you all think?
Putchuco, you wish to carry on your game which I see no problem with, as long as we all benefit in some way. How many turns were you thinking? If you wanted to continue for another 40 turns, well maybe we could all play for another 40 turns and see whether those who look weak now are actually going to be stronger as they progress. I feel that my game doesn't show it's potential yet, and maybe some extra turns would be fairer to everyone.
What do you all think?
Jamesds
Great Scientist
Yes, being on a continent is a little disappointing if you were looking for more excitement, but soon, we will be searching for those islands to colonise. I'd be getting some boat out soon just to look at the sea and find more civs.
that is quite nice! I got 112 gold from a hut, so I'll use that down to around 50 (I always keep reserve with these random events) with 100% science.
Well, look at the data collated from each save, load each save and look at them yourself, discuss each save, and for those whose saves aren't chosen, I think it is important we decide why they weren't chosen, so that everyone can learn something.
Yes, same as me - I like to build a warrior/scout to size 2, then worker, then maybe warrior/settler as needs be. And as I said above, maybe we should continue our games for a little longer to see how our strategies actually pan out.
Yes, I should get pottery when I finish Bronze Working in a few turns. Cottages are great, esp. for financial - cottage by river gives 3 commerce immediately! As for where the next city goes, since we are not trying to stifle the AI's building, I don't think it matters too much at the moment. The next city should be in a productive position I guess, to help out with workers/settlers and defense.
That isn't my main objective, and the only reason my third city might be built near copper is for the Barbarians.
The other resources on the island don't make my heart flutter either and I would probably start thinking when to start a fleet and where to turn. Our chinese neighbor in the East will most probably be the first to get a visit, but who knows, maybe Shaka is just waiting around the corner...
Early war from overseas will be a new one on me. As for exploring the seas, I am completely in favour of that. We need to find more land to settle on, esp. islands where there are no AI.
pawelo
Emperor
Hey!
Thanks for your words of praise for my game
Just kiddding , however it makes me feel not as bad as I thought.
I was thinking about frob's plans as to change settling plans to his choice, but it has the drawback in losing the clam tile in the north ( too much overlap with jamesds and my planned coastal city ). So I would continue with my original plans, dropping the idea of two full cottaged flood plains, and gaining the clam in the north instead. However, I think it's a pretty important point so let's discuss it.
As for me, from your tries I like Zettetic game most, essentially for techs chosen and GNP leadership, and I'm very comfortable with Jamesds and frob's starts. They both managed ( or almost ) two cities so far. Jamesds is more of my style of play ( hey, we are city planning buddies sofar ) and frob is a little bit more controversial. As much as I find your techs perfect and your expansion quick, I am not a great fan of your planned city to the west.
Putchuco seems a little bit too military for this start, though it was very prudent given that we didn't know that we were on an island.
I don't like the choice of Writing as research that soon - there are several critical techs at this stage ( Mining, AH, BW, Pottery, IW, Fishing if necessary ), and Writing is very expensive for such an early game.
Chop, I didn't understand your choice of building a scout that late. At this time, animals are pretty everywhere and you are pretty much vulnerable. But it must be my style of play - no scouts built, only military.
OK, let get this discussion going!
Hey, well done everyone! Eleven hours and every save's in!
See you later today!
Thanks for your words of praise for my game
Just kiddding
, however it makes me feel not as bad as I thought. I was thinking about frob's plans as to change settling plans to his choice, but it has the drawback in losing the clam tile in the north ( too much overlap with jamesds and my planned coastal city ). So I would continue with my original plans, dropping the idea of two full cottaged flood plains, and gaining the clam in the north instead. However, I think it's a pretty important point so let's discuss it.
As for me, from your tries I like Zettetic game most, essentially for techs chosen and GNP leadership, and I'm very comfortable with Jamesds and frob's starts. They both managed ( or almost ) two cities so far. Jamesds is more of my style of play ( hey, we are city planning buddies sofar
) and frob is a little bit more controversial. As much as I find your techs perfect and your expansion quick, I am not a great fan of your planned city to the west. Putchuco seems a little bit too military for this start, though it was very prudent given that we didn't know that we were on an island.
I don't like the choice of Writing as research that soon - there are several critical techs at this stage ( Mining, AH, BW, Pottery, IW, Fishing if necessary ), and Writing is very expensive for such an early game.
Chop, I didn't understand your choice of building a scout that late. At this time, animals are pretty everywhere and you are pretty much vulnerable. But it must be my style of play - no scouts built, only military.
OK, let get this discussion going!
Hey, well done everyone! Eleven hours and every save's in!
See you later today!
Jamesds
Great Scientist
Yes, you have a strong start Pawelo, and I would agree that we have similar games and strategies - at least at the moment, what the future holds I cannot tell! I like your city planning, and I think the only reason I haven't a second city yet is because I've moved my settler a little further than you and frob - I like the clams, which I only just noticed when moving my warrior onto the hill.
My techs are similar to yours, except I've tried to utilise our UU sooner with Archery and you've been strategically looking for copper for your city placement. But that would even out sooner or later I guess.
Your choice for a second city is good, esp. with the pigs to the south. I quite like my second city placement, especially now that I see there's copper in the city radii too
.
I have to agree, frob, that your second city placement might mean you lose out on an optimum placement for the continent we are on, but I can see what you are trying to achieve, but could you show that it would be better in the long run? If it is, then that's what matters.
I will comment more on the other games later, when you all discuss them here - for now, I'm going to create a quick index for the first round.
My techs are similar to yours, except I've tried to utilise our UU sooner with Archery and you've been strategically looking for copper for your city placement. But that would even out sooner or later I guess.
Your choice for a second city is good, esp. with the pigs to the south. I quite like my second city placement, especially now that I see there's copper in the city radii too
. I have to agree, frob, that your second city placement might mean you lose out on an optimum placement for the continent we are on, but I can see what you are trying to achieve, but could you show that it would be better in the long run? If it is, then that's what matters.
I will comment more on the other games later, when you all discuss them here
- for now, I'm going to create a quick index for the first round.
Jamesds
Great Scientist
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