Request for a Civ4: BtS "Intermediate" Succession Game

Oh regarding stats - perhaps one way of allowing us to baseline different tech / $ rates across games is to also include %'s in the table? I don't mean to make more work for you Jamesds, but I think this stat would be useful.

Some general thoughts. War has been waged well, I am leaning towards those who made the most gains (territory wise), and to those who traded techs (especially with the Chinese, wise move).

Depending on which save we pick, I think we should finish off the Chinese (or if we haven't, peace for tech, then redeclare and wipe them out [they might build 1-2 new cities on the island for us].

after that, focus purely on economy. In my game, I met washington, dunno if I should go into some implications from that game or not, let me know.

Now the individual analyses

Jamesds:
strong game. not quite as far as some of the other players, but you have an almost fully healthy army, and should be able to take out the rest of the chinese cities shortly. i didn't notice anything exceptionally positive or negative.

Putchuco:
busy techtrading, which i think was a smart move, i wonder if the trades for archery and poly were done before meeting the other civs, as i would personally be way of WFYABTA for those relatively cheap techs. Otherwise, you are also well positioned to wipe out the chinese if desired as well.

Pawelo:
skimped on the tech trading like me (an error in my opinion, as we are already down 2-4 techs on the other games ... though that could potentially be made up for in the next turnset). you've completely wiped out the chinese and can now entirely focus on building up the economy. Basically, we have completed the chinese war phase and are on to the next one.

Erathelix:
Same as Pawelo, you've taken out the three chinese cities, with one more left. we can either extort more tech from them (if they're willing to give) , or just wipe them out in short order. You also did some tech trading, and have strong research with good reserves. once you get calendar and those dyes are hooked up, our economy can expand fairly rapidly.

Asaegyn:
I think i may have played too tentatively. Although I am quite confident I can roll through China very quickly, I am thinking that those extra 10 turns that the Chinese cities were not in our hands are productive and economic turns that have been lost. Furthermore, the lack of tech trading may be a potential problem, especially if the window for some of those trades have passed.

Pigswill:

i like the economy buildup, my likely strat of choice as well. Though not having the GL to help is a bit unfortunate. Nonetheless, I think as the production shows, we are well placed to manufacture a future chinese taking out force if desired.

My vote - in retrospect, trading with china equals free techs for us, and having chinese cities sooner in our empire (if we've been gearing for war), means that those are more hammers and beakers coming into our empire. Thus, I would vote for erathelix's game, as he not only conquered china, but made some savvy trades.

I'm happy to see that the Chinese war went well - we had waged the move well, and had some time to do it before they had time to strenthen their defenses.

Should we play this one once again, and basing myself on your game reports, I think I would have changed two things :
- trade techs with China - I have overestimated their might and their ability to pump defense troops before the war and didn't want to strenthen them, given the fact that my army wasn't that great ( 11 axes, 1 spear, 3 cats ). I also should have made peace before going for Shanghai, and get whatever tech they are willing to give
- hurry Moais in Borsippa - they're almost finished, but I delayed them to get one additionnal spear or axe ( I even don't remember ). Yes, my attack on Shanghai has proven the utility of every axe available, still it's a major drawback in production capacity

@Putchuco
Nice alternate try

Some thoughts about your games :

Jamesds:
Very good game and a nice army. Your eco suffer a little bit, I think it's the lack of currency ( due in a short amount of turns ). Maybe one small thing - your techs are a little bit behind. Still, we can screw the Chinese to get it in exchange of peace. Otherwise, very nice moves and play.

Putchuco:
Your army mirror mine, but you traded techs much more than I did ( hey, but you lack CoL ). If we choose your game, the Chinese will be wiped off in a few turns. One of my favourites in this turnset .

Pawelo:
I am happy to have finished off the Chinese, still as I already said, I could've traded more techs. Our beakers are pretty nice thanks to war deeds, GL and Currency, allowing us to get Arch, Poly and may others in 1 turn, still all the Chinese knowledge should have been ours before they were over! I wouldn't vote myself for this one

Erathelix:
Another great game - your conquest and tech trades are great, and you've managed Moai's in Borsippa so far. One thing bothers me - well, it's not a BIG stuff - with GL and Currency in, your GNP is 40 gold lower than mine, even though I had wiped pretty much during my game. Is it because of different tile working / cottaging ?

Asaegyn:
I like your game too, even though I think you have overestimated the Chinese and built your army too much. It can be turned to our advantage - we could go with this army on the Khmer after wiping the Chinese off.

Pigswill:
Great eco game, your buildup is very instructive and we have a great amount of techs, including CoL, Currency, Philo ( religion ) and MC more than halfway throuhg! Knowing what we know now about the Chinese, I think that your game would be a great starting point to wipe them later.

I hesitate between two options for this turn. I'm greatly impressed by pigswill eco try, and I am tempted to give it a shot. Also, Putchuco has made a great turnset, decimating the chinese to their last city. Many techs, Chinese almost over, and great GNP ( without Currency ), it's my alternate vote.

As for now, no vote. I will see where the discussion is going to choose between my two favourites

Jamesds
Wow, that's some nice military build-up. I have the feeling if we continue with this game we would be able to take next civilization right after finishing with China. I don't consider your lack of certain technologies as a major setback as you can still easily extort them from our China friend . Currency, which will come very soon will fix your not so good economy and allow further expansion.

Putchuco
Another great game. Good choice of technology trading and solid expansion on Chinas continent. Your population is also impressive. With such a big base, we can whip our 2nd army in no time if there is a need for rapid action .
As in Jamesds game I'm positive you'll be able to take China without any problems. However since you lack swordsman taking Shanghai won't be very easy and will come with a few losses.

Pawelo
Well, what can I say you're the only one who was able to wipe China that's some impressive work . You have the biggest chance to expand fast on Chinas continent, however since you didn't trade with China you're little behind tech-wise. I strongly believe that it would be more appropriate to get everything you could from China before you finished them.

asaegyn
With 15 axes and 7 catapults China is as good as dead . However I'm not sure if you didn't overestimate the power of our neighbor. It will take another several turns to overrun China. On the other hand you meet 3 new neighbors which will significantly improve your research time.

pigswill
Well, your game is most similar to what I would do in normal single player game . Your research and stable economy make a difference. I'm positive that using this save will would still be able to take China at will. Not only you have the strongest economy, you also founded your own religion which will in short term solve many unhappiness issues.

Now I'll list some concerns I have with my own game:
- I should have hurried Moai Statues few turns earlier, I forgot about it since I was occupied with China war.
- Should have settled a new city on our continent. There is a settler ready to do it altho it's a bit too late. This city should have been founded on the same turn Beijing was captured.
- I shouldn't loose almost all my forces at attack on Shanghai, should have sacrificed catapults instead of axes.

Having said all that, my vote for this turns goes with Putchuco .

re china - japan is right at the top of that island and can conceivable settle on it. i haven't explored japanese territory, but i wouldn't be surprised to see some japanese cities on that island.

the island close to us with a hut still on it - that is also very close to sury and washington [who btw already has like 8 cities].

if we do want to claim it we should hurry