BTS Beta-2

the "locked assets" thing (What is this for actually?).

Locked modified assets makes it so that everyone is playing with the same rules.

Also, to get a legal HOF save for submission, do I need to change anything in the extra options menus included in the HOF-patch?

No. There are a few things in the HOF part of the options menu that are very beneficial, but none of them are mandatory.

Hy guys If I play during the weekend do you accept submission at next Monday around 11:00 AM ( for this gauntlet?

Try and get it in as early as possible. We plan on doing the update on the 10th, which is Monday, though I'm unsure exactly what time.
 
My tactics for this game are to go for diplomacy via conquest. I wanted to eliminate most of the civs so that it could be a self-vote.

I chose Kublai Khan and raced for Keshiks. I'm only on my second game (first one I abandoned) and I think the earliest I can win would be around 1000-1100ad.

Unfortunately I have put it on hold cos I am working on my gotm games when I have time to play.

I'll try to get one done by Monday (cos I'm conscious that I requested a diplo-type gauntlet).
 
Well, I finished off my game... and it went better than expected.

Diplo victory 425AD (vote was 400AD Turn 132)

All enemies except 1 conquered. I spread my religion with one missionary to the last standing Civ and self voted myself in.

I built the AP in 575BC (turn 92)

There was exactly 40 turns between building AP and having AP vote. I didn't spread my religion fully until about 250AD (so I didn't fulfill the criteria to trigger the vote until then) but this magic number of 40 turns is the same as what I observed in a few other trial marathon games.

So I think that 40 is the set number of turns (as a minimum) between building the AP and having the victory vote. And I think that this number is independent of the game speed setting.

The worst thing about my game was that in my haste to verify my idea about 40turns, I started a new BTS game which wiped my autosave start file.
Now I can't submit my game! :mad:

At least if my hypothesis about 40 turns is right my game wasn't too big of a waste of time...
 
I had aggressive AI checked - the theory being if they like each other less because they are warring then they'll like me more - however twice when the vote came up it meant that they all abstain, even those with good friendly ratings who are full voting members of the AP - bummer. By this point i was well overstreatched and gave in.

Don't check agressive AI :)
 
How are votes tabulated? Population of cities with the AP religion?
 
I'm think its total population of all civs with the AP religion present in one or more of its cities.

However, if a civ doesn't have the AP religion as their state religion then their contribution to the number of votes is only equal to 1/2 of their population.

I'm not 100% sure though. Haven't tested it.
 
How are votes tabulated? Population of cities with the AP religion?

I'm pretty certain that's how it works, but don't quote me on it.

The AP was toying with me for the diplo victory. Spread my religion fast and early. Had most all but one neighbor on my side from early BC. 1st two AP votes, everyone abstains. I then initiate a 5 on 2 Charlie Foxtrot of my my side vs the other two sims. Nice to get the war ally bonus :)

1st post war vote - 300 votes, but needed 307:mad: Second vote my neighbor votes himself and it's an even split. 10 turns later that civ changes religions, and can't vote for themselves next time. Vote comes up - Game, Set, Match :king:
 
Hy guys I found at least 2 bugs:

1. Sometimes it is not possible to build any building just units in the city in boreal map (I have nto checked other maps and I do not have a save games)

2. This one disturbs me a lot! I had a very good start a build the AP in Bc but I simly didn't work, so I was not able to even elect and vote!!! I attached the savegame
 

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Hy guys I found at least 2 bugs:

1. Sometimes it is not possible to build any building just units in the city in boreal map (I have nto checked other maps and I do not have a save games)
Yes I posted the reason somewhere in this thread, basically the northern 20% of the boreal map cannot build buildings.

2. This one disturbs me a lot! I had a very good start a build the AP in Bc but I simly didn't work, so I was not able to even elect and vote!!! I attached the savegame
:eek: My prediction was wrong: if your game wasn't bugged you would have won in BC years, well done. The AP is bugged though, I am not sure if this has already been posted in the bug reports section, would you mind posting it there? It is weird - and this gauntlet indeed picked a bugged map and a bugged victory condition :(
 
Bah humbug on this gauntlet. Apo Palace-built before 1000 BC. All civs converted and pleased/friendly by 400 BC. Why no vote? I played until 400 AD and no votes or resolutions?

I elected myself as the head of the palace before converting anyone. Could this be the problem?
 
I elected myself as the head of the palace before converting anyone. Could this be the problem?
No I did that just fine in my (much later) win. The only thing I can think of is that there is some bug in the trigger at a certain point.
:hmm: do you remember if you had met all other players before building the AP?
 
This gauntlet has concluded. Peluin took first place with an 175 AD victory. He was followed by Jadex in second with a 200 AD and Dracandross with a 350 AD victory.
:goodjob: also to those that were mbugged in their BC victories :goodjob:
 
No I did that just fine in my (much later) win. The only thing I can think of is that there is some bug in the trigger at a certain point.
:hmm: do you remember if you had met all other players before building the AP?
Pretty positive that I had not met the last civ, tucked away in the corner before building it. I usually send early missionaries long-to-short to get the farthest away ones converted more quickly.
 
Well done on those times guys!

Were the fast times (and the probable BC victories) all done through a peaceful route?

Any tricks that people are able to highlight from the conclusion of this gauntlet?
 
I played a dozen or so games trying different approaches to fastest AP diplomatic victory.

At first I thought I was being clever using the Egyptians to wipe the map with war chariots and save one poor sap to vote myself to victory over. Unfortunately, the massive boreal forests meant the going was slow.

I changed gears and explored peaceful approaches.

  • No barbarians!
  • Found an early religion
  • Research Monotheism early for Organized Religion
  • Churn out missionaries as if your life depends on it
  • Spread your early religion to as many opponents as possible
  • Build the Oracle and take MONARCHY, grow your cities huge
  • Use a great prophet to bulb Theology
  • Build the AP for one of your newer religions, and give everyone a little taste in a tiny city.

I selected custom opposition -- the first requirement was that they don't start with Mysticism so I could get an early religion, and the second was that their favored civic was Hereditary Rule or Organized Religion, in case I needed to actually have a friend. There's a list of 7 or 8 leaders that meet those criteria.

I played as Ramesses for the Obelisk and industrious. The Obelisk obviously helps one generate great prophets for bulbing, and industrious helps you build the expensive AP.

I built Stonehenge so that new cities wouldn't have to worry about cultural expansion, avoiding relying on religion or building monuments. I'm not sure how good of a decision that is, to be honest. I usually didn't want to build settlers/workers because growing my capital helped my early research, and the research path is really front-loaded.

I kept no state religion for as long as possible to preserve open borders agreements. Monotheism came before writing, so I could build the first missionaries while researching open borders, and I signed OB with everyone as soon as possible.

I took Monarchy off the Oracle to remove the happiness caps on my cities. With all the forests on Boreal, health was hardly an issue at all, so cities easily grew into double-digits. When I wasn't building wonders, I settler-spammed my heart out and took any deer tiles I could find. I had few workers, but I didn't need to cut trees or even connect cities with roads. They just went town to town building camps.

In my mind, I wanted it to be a "legitimate" victory, where the shared civics + religion bonuses added up sufficiently to vote me to victory. Unfortunately, all the AIs were also sharing civics and religions with each other. Even after I had gifted them Monarchy (to start building that shared civic bonus!), they would typically split votes since I would have an opposing full-member AP candidate.

So I tried again and went the cheesy route. I tried to get Buddhism but actually missed it in the winning game, which turned out to be alright as it was one less AI to convert to a heathen religion. Building a monastery at times was helpful, but researching Monotheism was just about equally fast in most games. I spent the early game building missionaries in between Stonehenge/Oracle/settlers. I sent those missionaries to the farthest reaches of the map, since I had plenty to do while they traveled.

I tried NOT to get too many religions, hoping they would provide "coverage" on someone I didn't get a missionary to. I used my prophet to found Christianity, but that's a good thing since you get a free missionary to infect someone with.

The plan was to send missionaries in pairs, one heathen religion to the capital, and then one "winner" missionary THE NEXT TURN to a little burg. That way, they'd convert to the heathen religion and keep it, especially since none of the AIs were spiritual. I actually messed up on Joao in the winning game and gave him both missionaries on the same turn, and he converted to the AP religion (possibly for the hammer bonuses? even though he had more heathen population). I devoted a couple cities to spamming him with heathen religion and got him to convert out before the game-winning vote took place. For spreading the AP religion, I would typically have one or two missionaries on long journeys while using the third missionary slot to spread the religion to my own cities.

A couple things I did to trim turns were to use my last three missionaries all at once, so I could stick them in whatever the newest AI city was without worrying about its future growth potential, since the diplo vote would come up in a handful of turns anyway. Additionally, the map layout played a huge role. On some boreal maps, there's an AI stuck behind a mountain range in the corner, inaccessible by land or nearly so. In some games I played the city-gifting game, but building/moving the extra settler and missionary usually hurt my time pretty significantly. On top of that, if you spawned in the bottom-middle your missionaries had shorter travel time to the corner AIs than if you spawned in a corner yourself and had to run across the whole darn globe. The capital resources were important too -- after I while I started regenerating the map if I didn't have two plains forest deer in the fat cross, it was the only way to get everything built in time!

It's definitely possible to win faster. Chopping on the AP and missionaries could be done more aggressively to trim some time, I don't think I focused enough on that. Stonehenge was a questionably valuable investment, but I kept doing it. Also, to be truly perfect, building the AP should be timed with the last three missionaries so that the vote comes up the turn you spread the last of the religion -- I think the vote interval is 9 turns, and I wound up having to wait four or five for the chance to win.
 
I played Ghandi. Fast workers chop the abundant woods and road 25-33% faster and makes up for the lack of industrious. Philo lets you bulb Mono while working on other useful things like Writing and Oracle Theology. Unforested gems +deer were usually the gas in the civ engine on such a commerce poor map as Boreal.
 
I also played Ghandi:
*fast workers so I could move in a forest and start chopping the same turn and just because fast workers are... just fast...
*spiritual to change civics 2 or 3 times (which means 2 or 3 extra turns)
*philosophic because I'd get a prophet twice as fast, so I could make the Big Religion Building for money income (and put research higher)

First select your opponents (for "same civic" relation bonuses and no mysticism starting techs)

Techs:
Go for hunting first (makes sense I think), then Bhuddism, then "copper working" (so your workers have something to do, namely chop/prechop), then masonry, to get monotheism afterwords and start pumping out misssionarries. Escort them with scouts to all your opponents (When I read Peluins post, I realized I should have turned off barbarians, which could have made a small difference). After monotheism, I went for priesthood to chop the oracle (wich would give me a great prophet) while researching writing, to get christanity for the AP. Then alphabet for trading.
This tech research also ensured that no-one would found another religion besides Bhudism (which was founded by elizabeth, but she was willing to convert to hinduism for some techs). This is where my tactics differ: I wanted everyone to have the SAME RELIGION for the +4 or +5 relational boost.

At the moment of founding monotheism, I started chopping missionaries. As soon as I could build a new missionary, I'd build one. Send the first 3 to 3 close opponents to east and north (I was in south central), then the second wave of 3 to the closest and the 2 most far away civs, all in the west. I wanted people to be converted asap to get the religious relation growing over the years.

At this time (missionary spawning) I still only had 2 (maybe 3) cities (Both with "gems" was really nice for extra research to get to monotheism fast and only 2 cities means less upkeep). After the second wave of missionaries went off to the west, I started building and expanding:
*with stone I'd build/chop the great wall, so I'd never need ANY military (except for one happiness-warrior in most cities). This was nice because I had a random event which spawned a horde of horse archers near my borders, but they where just walking around my "great wall protected" empty cities :mischief: )
*Chop the AP
*start expanding and occupy every spot with at least 1 food resource available (religion for culture expanding)
*Before my research got stagnated because of all the small cities, I made sure I'd have the "hanging gardens" tech, so that I could build this to grow all my small cities with +1 to get a much larger share in the votes.
*Start giving away lots of techs to make everyone +4 happy with you for "'fair' trade realtions and possibly the +1 for "sharing techs".

The first vote came up when almost everyone was just "pleased" with me, so that was an expected failure. Ten years later, second vote: all but one friendly with me, Kublai wasn't my religious buddy for a very long time yet, so it was still at +1 or +2 for shared religion, so he didn't vote for me. Elizabeth was my opponent in the votes and even though Hatseput was at +12 with me and +6 (but friendly) with Elizabeth, she voted for her, which cost me the BC victory... AAAARgh :(
Anyway, ten years later all but Kublai were at +11 to +15 with me and I won the elections in 200AD...

Actually, before the 200AD victory, at my second or third try, I managed a 50AD victory, but since this was my first gauntlet/HOF game, I had not yet installed the BtS HOF-mod, quite frustrating... :)

Anyway, it was nice to play a game with a clear objective and goal and I'll play more gauntlets and GotM's. Actually, I'm going to start with caesar in this month's GotM in a few minutes! It seems like a :crazyeye: game!
 
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