Rise of Mankind v2.0 discussion

When are you'll going to put a new complete MOD update out?

zappara, I haven't played much until now (not enough time), but I really love this mod!
It is very pleasant to see that others have thought along the lines of my ideas and even put them into the game!

What I would like to ask for, though, is an overhaul of promotions. I have experienced that you may get a General really soon, although you do not have that much promotions available.
Therefor, you have the chance to make him a military trainer, to have him create a war academy or - to make him a troop leader.
To the last option I refer: I always found it very annoying how easily Generals are defeated. I mean, conceptionwise they symbolize troops led by very skillful commanders, no?
I would suggest to offer special promotions for Generals which add some first strikes to the "normal" promotions, thus reflecting the high skills of the commander.
This way, Generals really could become powerful units - like the armies led by a Napoleon or Alexander.

What do you think?

Then I do have another suggestion:
In my copy of your mod, I have taken the liberty to change cottages - towns.
First, they are available for all terrain, if there is one food available. It has always bugged me that a agricultural powerhouse was not able to make proper use of that one tundra field in the fat cross.

Furthermore, I did add +1 production to villages and towns, as suburbs of this size are assumed to have quite some early industry available as well.
Additionally, I have added +1 commerce for roads and railroads, as this should reflect the additional trading between the metropolis and its suburbs.
Finally, for villages and towns I subtract one food, as this reflects the decreased space for agriculture on the tile.

For your convenience, I have attached the respective file to this posting, maybe you want to make use of some of my ideas.

Edit: please take notice that this file is my first attempt for modular xml. Therefore, it makes reference to a copy of the CIV4TerrainSchema.xml, which has to be put in the same folder.
I had to save it as txt-file, as otherwise I was not allowed to upload it.

Hmm. That's pretty potent; cottaging everything has always been a pretty good strategy... does it really need to be made better?

Endovior said:

Hmm. That's pretty potent; cottaging everything has always been a pretty good strategy... does it really need to be made better?

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It clearly comes with a price: the -1 food later. You will find that you may suddenly struggle in your bigger cities.

I am currently trying to find out how good the AI deals with it, but at the moment I am pretty satisfied.

I really enjoy Rise of Mankind, but i want my civics!!! Look at Overload 2 or ViSa! CIVICS!!!!

waha, but thanks zappara!

Hey thanks for the mod it is alot of fun..... the only thing that I find annoying is that there is to many buildings and not enough time to build them. Do not get me wrong I love all the buildings. you could fix this by making the techs harder to resreach and I also noticed because there is so many buildings the ai gets alot of bonuses against building things faster so with alot of buildings it makes the ai harder on the levels. just some thought see ya


P.S I love the way you have steel done and oil and all that but maybe you could add in that one amunation gives you only enough support for like 15 units or so and same for the oil and things like that it could make the game alot more fun. It would also be harder for the ai to build really big armies to

Bobisback said:

the only thing that I find annoying is that there is to many buildings and not enough time to build them.

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I think thats kinda the point, have to pick and choose what you want the city to build, what direction you want it to go in.

Hi Zappara,

I love Rise of Mankind.


I hope that I don't say absolutely redundant stuff, but
one thing I would change for 2.0 is cosmetic:

the modern grenadier should look more like the infantry and not like the marines, because
infantry and modern grenadier is researched by the same technique in your mod.
(Moreover it is quite the same era like represented in the mod.)

With Nif Viewer and Nifscope I made such modern grenadier unit which based in my case on a
German infantry I took from the great Varietas Delectat mod.

hmm.

I know that it is a huge task to give a full ethnical diversity to RoM, particularly because it has more and more units.
I combined parts of Varietas Delectat with Rise of Mankind myself and
edited some XML's to have for example the pikemen from Varietas Delectat
as normal and heavy pikeman for each civilization. Furthermore I found units
in Varietas Delectat which I use now as "modern infantry", in fact Varietas
Delectat's marine units of Germany, England and France which look very modern to me.
I also took the complete African noncombatant set (uploaded by Polycrates) and added it to RoM.

Again: I love your mod.

Thanks for the awesome mod !

1. What mods or mod components should be combined?

-Finland as a civ

4. What units/buildings/wonders/techs should be added?

-Special opertions as a unit/tech (SAS-England, Speznaz-Russia, Erikoisjääkäri-Finland etc...)



vahti

About the cottages modular change which I posted above:
Since 3.13 this does not work correctly anymore. That means, the modularity does not work anymore, the settings by themselves are ok and the AI is very well able - according to my observations - to cope with it.

Just wanted to let you know...

My bad how do you keep this all in your head! Past, present and future

Freakwave said:

My bad how do you keep this all in your head! Past, present and future

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It's called multithread-thinking.. keeping past, present and future in their own thought patterns

...actually I keep notes about everything plus I've followed world of science for about 20 years now so my brains are filled with all kinds of stuff

I gotta say that in my second game I still really dislike the 4 World Wonder limit per city. I gotta remove that limit - IMO if you're lucky enough and skilled to have some few cities that can get you to Wonders first in a cutthroat world, any further limits are just cruel.

I'm enjoying the extra food given by some of the new civics too, but I can see how that will be quite dangerous, given that I don't think about the food when I go to change civics, and I could easily end up with a load of starving cities. That's not a criticism of the mod, just an observation I hope other players will keep in mind if they haven't already considered it.

MrWhereItsAt said:

I gotta say that in my second game I still really dislike the 4 World Wonder limit per city.

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Is there any way to make this dependable on map size or number of opponents? Large and up maps, cities are limited to 4. Medium 5. Small infinite? Or possibly 12+ opponents, 4 wonders. 10-12 opponents 5, and so on and so forth.

I dislike the limit too. In a game against 5 CPUs i had 20 World Wonders in my five biggest cities. But - boom - there were World Wonders available to build, but i cannot build them ... because there are obsolete early wonders taking the slots for them.

I feeled realy dumb. Having a lot of nearly useless wonders and cannot build the usefull end-game wonders. (My other cities were founded later and they had low production until the very end of the game)

Btw. it is possible to raze buildings? If not - this is a feature request.

zappara said:

It's called multithread-thinking.. keeping past, present and future in their own thought patterns

...actually I keep notes about everything plus I've followed world of science for about 20 years now so my brains are filled with all kinds of stuff

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Yes you must have a good understanding about history and present day science looking at the tech tree.

Some thoughts:

I think some buildings give way to much bonussus, like the casino another 50% commerce. Its a good moneymaker but not to that extend. E-bank has that too but i think thats ok since that would be another leap like the medieval bank. And they are far apart. You already have the jeweller 20% which is cheaper than the bazaar15% btw but 5% more commerce and only buildable with precious metals and stones. Then you have market 20% and grocer 25%.
Not to forget ports which make a big difference.

There are alot more buildings for each type culture, commerce and science because of all those new techs so i think smaller increments would be better.
balancing the game is hard enough as it is i can imagine...

Ideally faster build times on marathon for both units and buildings but slower research. Compared to normal speed games my army was very small compared to my empire, i had enough money to upgrade and i needed to since build times were long, didnt reach 1 turn builds in late game 2 turns was highest in late game. I am talking about the bigger units not cruise missiles of course.


I missed the FW 190 for germany aswell as grey uniform infantry but the latter wasnt in before, so thats a hint

Oh and about the civic options that give unhappy faces if you dont have it, there is more then one civic category, will the ai pick another choice when all the other ai's stick with say emancipation and not take contracting? And why would i as player? In the later game you have enough happy faces to compensate is that the idea? but there are two civic categories that have that effect thats a big penalty if you move up the tree(if you change both). Ai wont make those choices even though the new bonussus you get are better. Which in turn make them actually worse because of all the unhappyness.

Contracting and those healthcare civics, which give unhappyness if you dont have it, are begotten by industrials techs. Which means you dont have enough happy faces to compensate yet, still they are available and can be used but at great penalty.
I know there arent equal numbers for each civic category.

Gunships against gunpowder units are unbalanced starting from musketman, if you have a good defensable position you get very bad odds for your gunship attacking a musketman in a city. Gets even worse with riflemen. Having gunpowder units is a major step in defense since lots if not all modern units have bonussus against melee and archer but so much against gunpowder. So if you have riflemen you can hold out pretty well. Of course bombardment by any means will bring down the greatest foe. but 1 on 1 its (too) though fighting gunpowder units with modern units compared to fighting melee units.

Dont know if this is intended or not, but in the first pic you can see that the Church of Nativity is still available to be built, BUT in the 2nd pic you can see that i had already built it??

Thanks for all the feedback. Taking all in consideration when upgrading the mod. Techleak is one mod component that I'm interested as well and will see if I can combine it to my mod. There's plenty of mod components that I'd like to use, just combining them is the hard part.

strategyonly said:

Dont know if this is intended or not, but in the first pic you can see that the Church of Nativity is still available to be built, BUT in the 2nd pic you can see that i had already built it??

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It's intended changed. If you read version history, you'll see that religious shrines are no longer considered as World Wonders. They were changed because now you can built them in your holy city even if the city already has the max amount of World Wonders built (if you had before 4 world wonders, you couldn't built religion shrine there). It shouldn't affect gameplay but indeed you'll see the build button on those units still.