What the Iraq war cost you.

RedRalphWiggum said:
Well, after practically the whole world wanred against the attack in the first place, I think theres a "you made your bed..." attitude. Might not be helpful, but ye were warned.
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Yes, its fine to rub it in Bush's face, I think this has been taking place for several years now.

But claiming that the US will dump a problem it created on the rest of the world, (Verbose being from Europe) isn't really based on anything at all.

The EU won't do anything, now next year or 5 years from now, to help stabilize Iraq. I'm not saying the EU should, just disputing Verbose's claim.
 
Chronic said:
Yes, its fine to rub it in Bush's face, I think this has been taking place for several years now.

But claiming that the US will dump a problem it created on the rest of the world, (Verbose being from Europe) isn't really based on anything at all.

The EU won't do anything, now next year or 5 years from now, to help stabilize Iraq. I'm not saying the EU should, just disputing Verbose's claim.
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The EU has a track record of outrage at various things... after they have taken place. While they are going on? Smiles, nods and handshakes. Not like the US government is any better, but let's keep it in prespective here.
 
Verbose said:
Whose back-yard do you figure the Middle East is?
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The Middle East as a whole?

Well for the most part it borders Africa, and then the rest of Asia, as it is in Asia, and Turkey has a small border with Europe.

But we are discussing Iraq, not the middle east as a whole.
 
Bronx Warlord said:
No, I've been involved in it for some time and continue to be of my own free will.
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Given, as you say, you're in the war because of your "own free will", one could make the argument that its cost you nothing. It would be more correct to blame yourself. The choice to serve is what has cost you, not the war.

Don't take that to mean I don't appreciate that people serve the country. I do. But at the same time, I don't go in for all this rah-rah BS cult of worship about military service. Its completely voluntary. If someone's not happy with the fact that, OMG, they may in fact be killed, then I think they used the wrong criteria to make their choices in life. And, we, the US people, reward that choice through a range of uber-generous benefits (some might argue they're a form or bribery or welfare, in fact) to attract people and as payback for the potential risk. I'm all for that. In fact, if I were in Congress, I'd be leading the charge to fund and take care of veterans. Just don't ask me to genuflect in the Church of the Holy Soldier.

Now that said, I agree very much w/ the sentiment that the war has cost the average (non-serving) American almost nothing directly. At least not yet.

If you'll grant that it has or will cost Americans in that we have to pay for it and that will either mean increased taxes or reduced services, then yes, there's a cost.

But, do we "feel" that cost? Have we been made to feel that we're "doing our part"? Hell no. Not even close. Bumper stickers, ribbons, and lapel pins are essentially hollow gestures.

And there's the rub. We're not paying because we haven't been asked to pay. Why not? Because if Bush/Cheney had asked us to sacrifice when they were starting this FUBAR their support would've died on the vine.

If they'd of tied paying for the war to a tax surcharge, or to a requirement for "gas-less Tuedays" or an energy tax... any tangible way of saying to John Q. Public, "the marines and army will bleed, all we ask is you pay an extra $XXX in taxes this year" you'd of seen just how committed all the so-called war supporters were. You'd of seen just how easily and how quickly they would put a pricetag on your life.


Bronx Warlord said:
I mean really. Learn our history, then see just how tame and well... de-ballsac'ed we have really become.
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lol, no idea where you're going here.

Yes, I read Yankee's list, but I don't see where it ties to your comments here.
 
Do I favor high taxes (think: Switzerland) because I don't have to pay them yet, or because it's my political belief?

(No, seriously, I really don't know.)
 
HAHA! the USA can rot.
 
carmen510 said:
Are you sure? Was there a draft before? If not, then that doesn't make sense, the relatives didn't want to go to Iraq, yet they were sent anyway.

Hmmmm...
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Are your relatives ambassadors?
 
Abaddon said:
HAHA! the USA can rot.
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Careful sonny, if Fred Thompson wins there might be a one million man amphibious assault on your island. :trouble:
 
I suppose I could have made a really awesome--and overly long--rant simply by asking how much Welfare has cost me, or Nature Nazis such as Greenpeace, or Affirmative Action laws, or "free needle" programs, or a whole lot of other chunks of government spending I disagree with. But I've only gotten this far and you all see the point already, so I'll stop there.

This is simply the price of Democracy, folks: sometimes the majority of voters will disagree with you. I say getting rid of Saddam was the right thing to do, and worth the cost. And the President (I didn't actually vote for him, but millions of Americans did) agrees with me. Remember that next time it's some sissy-pants bleeding-heart weed-smoking hippie in the White House: at that point it will be me having to live by you rules. It's happened before several times already. My response will be the same: boo friggin' hoo. I will grumble about it for fifteen minutes or so, and then go on playing Internet flash games, downloading porn, posting inane crap in threads like this one, dating a woman who is very attractive but completely wrong for me, eating way too many burgers for my good health, and just generally being me.

I take it back--I still got a really good rant outta that!! :)

Narz said:
Our government is not responsible. Sometimes when I watch GWB speak I get the sense that he's thinking "Heh, the suckers who believe the tripe I speak will support me and everyone else /smirk what are they gonna do about it? /smirk again".

Sadly, our country doesn't seem to learn (or rather it doesn't matter if the people learn because the people's opinions don't matter). Korea, Vietnam, Iraq ('91), Iraq (again). What waste.
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Here's a thought: why don't you run for President so you can set us all straight....?

Don't hold your breath--you're not the first person who's tried. Why do you think the same complete bobbleheads seem to keep getting elected and continuing to run the U.S. in the wrong directions? I'll tell you why: because after progressive, honest, well-meaning idealists finally do get elected and gain access to the CIA, the FBI, the Pentagon, and many other secret sources of information, they discover how the real world actually works (and in the end receive a much more accurate picture than you or I ever will) and that it's people like you and me who are the bobbleheads.
 
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