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SGOTM 13 - klarius

We should still trade IBT for another hope. :)
If we get IW IBT (before production) and either hill or mountain is iron we get Tokyo to 11 spt just in time to finish the GLib one turn earlier.
Another turn of the GLIB build could be won, by merging the worker and living of the stored food. But there is the question if we rather send the worker along with the settler.

So with all other AA wonders away, we should trade. Minimum to get should be MM, BW, IW and all money around.

The first settlement on south island should just be the northern tip. This has 3 water resources and 3 BGs with a temple.
I hope we get a government tech with the GLib (preferred monarchy for now). We should then revolt and cash rush things.
So we need all the money we can get - I wouldn't even do min research then.
 
Monarchy will come from the GLib. HG is built and France is in Monarchy, should only be a matter of turns before someone else we know has it.

Good point on the trade issue. One turn can be a huge deal. OTOH I would guess Rik has placed both key resources on the other island. But apart from MM, BW and IW we should only take money and loads of it for Literacy. Try to get MM and BW from the first you trade with (maybe portugal, france or egypt since they are low on gold)), that woudl get IW and gold from the next and then gold only from the rest.

The Worker should go to the new island. And Tokyo build Settler after GLib.

The northern tip sounds like a good first site. And absolutely no research.
 
Worker and settler on the boat, that's a given. Good point on grabbing the strict minimum from Literature, I'll stop after trades and put a dotmap out.

I hate to bring this up but we're still 11 turns away from GLib: it's 400 shields, not 300. We still need to grab MM for boats but we don't need it for the settler, so the door is open for us to wait for 10 turns before we go grab MM. OTOH there are no pre-builds around at all. I think it'd be safe, but then again, it's a big gamble either way. I'd go for MM right away and a faster colonization but I want to make sure everyone realizes that GLB is not due this IBT.
 
Are we sure there are no barbs on the island? Playing it a bit safer would put a Warrior from Kyoto with teh settler on the boat.

And if klarius wish comes through and either the hill or mountain holds a deposit of iron we will have Glib in 10 turns else in 11. The gamble is probably not that big with no known AI having Literacy. if an unknown AI has it and has cascaded we are not worse of by trading anyway so we don't really have any alternative I guess. Just make sure to get as much gold as possible. ;)

EDIT: just a reminder as a precaution. Differentiated sea move so a Galley makes it to the island in two turns. Coast/sea/Coast and Sea/Sea/Coast. I am sure this is not neccessary but better safe than sorry. ;)
 
Yeah, differential sea movement :lol:

Might play this before dinner, otherwise tomorrow.
 
Another small point:
Osaka shall grow from next turn on. I want it size 2 in 10 turns for either a worker build, or some gift retake action.
So we need a garrison after the pop-rush. We can spare one warrior in the capital for that. So move this even before hitting enter.
 
It is OK to move a warrior to Tokyo next turn from Kyoto and take one from Tokyo and move on to Osaka should it not be done before hitting return. Will gain us an extra VP. ;) (sure that matters a lot)
 
I thought some more and think it's best to not send the worker with the settler but merge it in Tokyo.
This gives GLib then 1 turn faster and we can just peel of the worker again in Tokyo after that.
Our new town doesn't benefit that much from a worker. We will not build anything before the GLib completes and we hopefully get monarchy.
Then it's cash rush time down there. Temple-granary-harbor to establish a worker factory.
 
klarius said:
I thought some more and think it's best to not send the worker with the settler but merge it in Tokyo.
This gives GLib then 1 turn faster and we can just peel of the worker again in Tokyo after that.
Our new town doesn't benefit that much from a worker. We will not build anything before the GLib completes and we hopefully get monarchy.
Then it's cash rush time down there. Temple-granary-harbor to establish a worker factory.
Click to expand...
I think in this case we should only trade to get MM and gold. No need to "pay" gold to get IW and a chance at an iron deposit showing up on our starting island.
 
Still, iron would win another turn, but we don't need it then right away. We can wait 5 turns, so yes we could wait.
But we still need MM and cash.
 
If we join the worker now, we need more lux tax, and if 20% won't do then we lose Literature altogether. I'll do it next turn, after we're done with research. Right now if I work a sea tile to add a gold, 30% is required to gain a happy face. Good idea, bad outcome, plan goes to trash.

Here's the trade situation: 1K for grabs. We'll need to trade Literature around, since everyone has everything, so I think it'd be wise to take advantage and get as many techs as possible upfront - such as IW.

sg13_04.gif
 
We will get every tech in that picture in 9 or 10 turns from teh GLib. What the Glib will not give us is the gold so besides MM and the gold no AI has anything to offer us. Trading with the AI to get additional techs would just be like gifting it to them, we will have the techs in a few turns anyway and will not really gain anything from having them a few turns earlier. I would rather use Literacy to maybe help pay to kickstart a few phony wars. getting France Egypt, Portugal and maybe byzantines to fight wars.

Maybe start by trading with either America if they offer the majority of their gold besides MM, else mabe trade Lit to France for MM and the few gold they have and then go through the gold hoarding AI beginning with the wealthiest, Spain and then down through their ranks.

EDIT: I think klarius mean join the worker when our next turn begin, at that time extra lux won't matter since we have stopped research ad´fter Literacy.
 
I think we're arguing about the same thing here: I'll join the worker next turn, I'll trade Literature for as much gold as possible, and as an additional cookie I'll try to grab techs.

I guess phony wars is a good idea, since we want to go to space. Power graph shows the Mongols strongest, followed by Rome and Portugal (Portugal's power is inflated by having more ground than they can work, though, with colonies and all), while France and America are weaker, with Egypt standing on the brink of destruction. I'd avoid involving Mongols and Egypt.

We're also due for a contact this very turn, so how about holding off trades for that long? We could then forment long-range wars between Portugal, America, Byzantium(?) and France. Lots of border crossing, lots of tensions, big world war.
 
Since we no longer need the gamble on Iron I think waiting to trade is OK. Just don't forget to switch the palace prebuild to GLib in the IBT phase.

Just can't understand why you want to go for other techs????? We must have MM but nothing else. The value of Literacy should be more than MM but maybe not more than an additional 100 gold or so? After the first monopoly trade the value will go down for each consecutive trade and with Spain at 300 gold and the rest between 200 and 300 I cannot see how you are to get additional techs without reducing the gold we get in the trades? And trading it to the AIs without any gold just to get techs we will have from the GLib in a few turns is like gifting it to them. In other words not worth it in my opinion we do not gain anything.
 
Yeah, I would definitely not trade it just for techs. Grab barrels of gold and whatever tech fits in the deal, not the other way around, and I'd definitely stop trading when there is no more gold around. That's where the quiproquo was. I was just hoping for IW in the first place but kept some optimism around anyways.
 
Sure, join worker next turn. Trade for only MM and gold.
We have then still some turns to find someone more backwards to try to get IW w/o giving away gold.

Edit:
BTW, I think we should try another suicide run to the west with our galley as soon as it has delivered the settler. Our westmost curragh seems to be at a cross-roads. A reinforcement with a galley wouldn't be bad. There is still lots to discover.
 
Alright. We've got 110 shields to go, so even if we traded for IW and joined the worker this turn and didn't have to bother with lux, we'd make 13 spt which would overrun 7 shields (13x9=117). So we have a 7 shields loose we can play with. Say we lose 3 on the first turn (we're running 10spt currently), that leaves us 4 turns to find a way to extort IW from someone.

Byzantines(?) could be willing to pay up something more for Literature, if they are on another mass. I'd be tempted to wait out the full four turns before deciding to trade for IW, should it incur any kind of expenses.

edit: So, about phony wars: do we spend our techs on that right away or do we wait for techs to start flowing from GLib in and buy armies out with that?
 
Literature at 4th or 5th will not be enough for the massive phony wars I want to see :D. So wait until GLib. Find out who's tech leader (to declare on) and who's laggard.
Then get the laggard's on all tech leader's at once (with peace renegotiation for war happiness later).
 
I'm not sure why you are so eager to get IW in the next few turns. What will that help us with compared to getting it with the GLib? trade Literacy for Map Makinga nd as much gold as possible then stop trading for anything but gold until we get the GLib.
 
Wotan said:
I'm not sure why you are so eager to get IW in the next few turns. What will that help us with compared to getting it with the GLib? trade Literacy for Map Makinga nd as much gold as possible then stop trading for anything but gold until we get the GLib.
Click to expand...
Still one turn faster to GLib, if there is iron and we get IW within 4 turns. But really we shouldn't invest in it, but if we can get it for free ... :)
 
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