SGOTM 13 - Smurkz

Niklas said:

Bah, why wonder, I'll go check the save for corruption values. EDIT: CAII reports 4% in Sushi and 9% in Nibanme. Most likely we will feel some then, but I guess it will be 1 lost in both towns in both of zyxy's scenarios, so 2 would still be better. I'm not sure how the values are rounded, does anyone know?

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Thanks for checking! It's rounded to nearest integer, and specialist income is never corrupted. Meaning that the 13-th gold in Sushi will be corrupted, and the 6-th in Nibanme. So we are corruption free if Sushi works fish/bg and 2 coast (6 or 7 gold), and Nibanme works oysters, bg and scientist (4 gold from tiles).

I'll play this evening, unless discussion starts to rage.

Turn 0, 2230BC: All is well. Hit enter.

Turn 1, 2190BC: Our curraghs move into the void and see new land. It looks rather fishy:

Let's hope they survive! Differential naval movement is on, btw.

Turn 2, 2150BC: Sensei curragh -> curragh. Our southern curragh is lost, but the other one survived! He sails on. I'm sending our new curragh straight west - there seems to be a passage to somewhere...
Nibanme has grown. I'll join the worker in a few turns to bring it to size 3, and hire a scientist for now.

Turn 3, 2110BC: our curraghs survived! Sailing on, further into the void:

As you can see, two of our curraghs are at risk. And that northern passage seems to be going nowhere...

Turn 4, 2070BC: Nibanme curragh -> curragh. Everyone survived again! We press on:

The northern passage really seems to lead nowhere, and I also see nothing to the east. But we do see a lux on the new continent. Too bad it will be of no use to our homeland until Astro... or the GLight? Our new curragh will try to cross to this continent, to sail down the east coast.

Turn 5, 2030BC: Sensei curragh -> curragh. And again everyone survived! I don't think I've ever been so lucky. Now if we would just find some more land...

Turn 6, 1990BC: end of the good luck - three curraghs sank this turn. Well, can't have everything, I guess. Our island explorer bravely continues - I hope he doesn't drink too much...


Turn 7, 1950BC: Sensei has grown to size 4 and gets a scientist. A new curragh tries to cross to Wine Island.

Turn 8, 1910BC: Sensei curragh -> curragh. Sushi curragh -> curragh. Sushi has grown and is stabilized at size 3. Our curragh survived the sea passage. We have discovered horses on Wine Island, and it seems that we have reached the southern tip:


Turn 9, 1870BC: Nibanme curragh -> curragh. Worker joins Nibanme. Now all our towns are stabilized, and we make 24 bpt.

Turn 10, 1830BC: I send our island explorer south in the hope of finding the next island. I'll play two more turns to get back to a nice turn number.

Turn 11, 1790BC: Sensei curragh -> curragh. We lose one.

Turn 12, 1750BC: All curraghs survived.


notes:

• The Glight seems highly useful on this map, although it's quite possible that the sealanes we see are all red herrings. However, we lack a decent prebuild. Perhaps research Masonry next?
• We are getting close to the free support limit. But we are also getting to the point where our curraghs have nothing to do but to risk the seas and oceans in an attempt to find new lands. So perhaps it will work out.
• Sensei and Sushi can share the fish and the bg: Sensei needs the bg 2 out of 3 turns, Sushi can have it the third turn, in exchange for the fish.
• Differential naval movement is on. Meaning that our curraghs can do 2 moves in sea or coast, but 4 in ocean.

The save.

Roster:
Othniel - Up! (Jan 1)
eldar - On Deck! (Jan 4)
CommandoBob - Warming Up (Jan 7)
Niklas (Jan 10)
donsig (Jan 13)
zyxy - just played (Jan 16)

Wow! An island that big, this early in the game and uninhabited. I sure thought the first land we found would have a somebody on it, so we could trade with them.

With Differential naval movement turned on, galleys be able to cross the two sea tiles to the Wine Island in one turn, so that helps (some).

I think the two curraghs alongside Wine Island need to get to the southtern tip of the island and then start heading east and west.

Nice going zyxy, very lucky with those curraghs!

GLight indeed seems almost like a must-have, but like zyxy noted a prebuild is a bit problematic. I'm not sure Pyramids is the right choice for that though, I expect it to be built by someone quite a lot earlier than we get MM.

At any rate I think we should keep spamming out curraghs in all directions, we desperately need to meet some others. Though it seems as if we're not supposed to...

Niklas said:

GLight indeed seems almost like a must-have, but like zyxy noted a prebuild is a bit problematic. I'm not sure Pyramids is the right choice for that though, I expect it to be built by someone quite a lot earlier than we get MM.

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How many shields is the palace? Sushi could do 7 spt (cows, plains, bg).

With three towns I think the palace is still at the base 200 shields. That's 2/3 of a Torch. Is it worth the risk? Hmm, I'm leaning towards yes, but you know I'm a risktaker. But we should be doing pretty good research, so Masonry shouldn't be too many turns. I say go for it.

24 hours and counting. Othniel is hereby skipped (he did warn it could happen so no harm done).

Current Roster and Schedule

• eldar - UP! (Jan 1)
• CommandoBob - On Deck! (Jan 4)
• Niklas - Warming Up (Jan 7)
• donsig (Jan 10)
• zyxy (Jan 13)
• Othniel (Jan 16)

eldar, your go!

Niklas said:

With three towns I think the palace is still at the base 200 shields. That's 2/3 of a Torch. Is it worth the risk? Hmm, I'm leaning towards yes, but you know I'm a risktaker. But we should be doing pretty good research, so Masonry shouldn't be too many turns. I say go for it.

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I don't see this as a risk, rather as our only chance to do more than colonize that nearby island before Astronomy.

Tech cost modifier is apparently 57. Ignoring all possible rounding effects, Masonry is 57*4 = 228 beakers, so it takes 10 turns. Pottery is 114 beakers (5 turns), Map Making is 684 (29 turns). 34 turns should be enough to collect 200 shields, and we could even start a bit sooner, using temple as prebuild. Then we only need to do 5 spt!

Niklas said:

Current Roster and Schedule

• eldar - UP! (Jan 1)
• CommandoBob - On Deck! (Jan 4)
• Niklas - Warming Up (Jan 7)
• donsig (Jan 10)
• zyxy (Jan 13)
• Othniel (Jan 16)

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I like the idea of roster and schedule. It is a good heads-up.

Got it. I'm still catching up on "stuff" since getting back online (as usual I've avoided all things internetty whilst at my parents). I like zyxy's plan for Masonry-Pots-Maps.

Base Palace cost is always 300 shields that's a whole Lighthouse which is rather handy.

I'll open up the save a bit later today.

Edit: looking at save and CA2:
We have 9 turns on Writing, then 5 for Pots (only need 23 gpt for that so we should've mined the plain for an extra shield?), then 10 for Masonry (again only need 23 gpt for that too), CA2 says either 685 or 1014 for MM... not sure what's going on there. It lists the tech cost as 685 on the right of the grid, but 1014 at the bottom. Something in the tech cost calculation I'm missing obviously!

Still 685 @ 24 is a manageable 29 turns. 1014 @ 24 is a painful 43.

I'm an optimist so reckon 685 will be the number giving us 9+10+5+29 = 53 turns to MM. And as stated 34+ turns of pre-build, at somewhat less than 10 spt.

SS cannot use the Palace to pre-build (agree Pyramids is risky). So we'd go with Sushi instead. Pop a worker from SS to bring it down to 3 pop (it'll have to lose the Cow so can only maintain 3 pop using fish, rocks, coast), mine plain & hill, join to Sushi. We should start the pre-build in Sushi ASAP we can always swap tiles round if it's going too fast.

eldar said:

Got it. I'm still catching up on "stuff" since getting back online (as usual I've avoided all things internetty whilst at my parents). I like zyxy's plan for Masonry-Pots-Maps.

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Welcome back!

Base Palace cost is always 300 shields that's a whole Lighthouse which is rather handy.

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Good to know. Just to make sure I checked in another game and indeed it was 300 shields at three cities.

I'm an optimist so reckon 685 will be the number giving us 9+10+5+29 = 53 turns to MM.

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685 coincides with my independent estimate, so that is the correct number.

SS cannot use the Palace to pre-build (agree Pyramids is risky). So we'd go with Sushi instead. Pop a worker from SS to bring it down to 3 pop (it'll have to lose the Cow so can only maintain 3 pop using fish, rocks, coast), mine plain & hill, join to Sushi.

Click to expand...

So you are planning to work cows + bg + hills + plains, for 9 spt? (This leaves a surplus food, btw). Then, with a 30 shield prebuild pre-Masonry, it will take 30 turns after discovery of Masonry to finish GLighthouse.

A downside is that this will force us to run the lux tax to create one happy face. Sushi makes 5 gold per turn, so a 10% tax might just be enough (this needs to be checked, I am not certain of the rounding). Unfortunately we lack the food to grow Sensei to size 4, so it will be at size 3 working fish, rocks and coast for 8 bpt and 1 useless happy face. Nibanme can stay at size 3 working oysters, bg and scientist, for 7 bpt.

This means our research rate will go down from 24 bpt to 19 bpt: first, because we are retooling from beakers to shields in Sushi, and second because we spend 2 gold on lux tax.

Building the worker will also cost some beakers.

Hence our prebuild would finish much sooner than the discovery of Map Making! Probably it is better to run a scheme where we produce more beakers and fewer shields.

We should start the pre-build in Sushi ASAP we can always swap tiles round if it's going too fast.

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This looks suboptimal to me: we should retool as late as possible, so we can keep our research up as long as possible. The whole thing is deterministic, assuming we do not stumble on any AI, so we can just calculate what to do.

eldar said:

CA2 says either 685 or 1014 for MM... not sure what's going on there. It lists the tech cost as 685 on the right of the grid, but 1014 at the bottom. Something in the tech cost calculation I'm missing obviously!

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685 is the cost for MM. 1014 is the beakers we have left until we finish MM, i.e. MM + Pottery + what's left of Writing.

I agree with zyxy, it's much better to run at as high commerce as possible. We could even go for Masonry before Pottery to get that prebuild sooner, so we can run at the lowest spt (and thus the highest bpt) possible.

Long Term Goal

Blast off to the stars, thumbing our noses at those left behind.

Short Term

Max out cash to get Maps ASAP. Keep exploring and hope our brave little boats don't sink.

Next 10

Very little! Keep pushing the Curraghs around, remember to swap tiles every three turns, finish Writing, start Masonry to get a pre-build going.

>> The Save <<

Apart from a bit of luck at first, this has been a frustrating set.

0 1750BC Quick check reveals nothing to do. Press space.

1 1725BC All boats survive. Western curragh spots coast, in range next turn if it survives. Southern curragh gets in range of coast and spots some borders. If it survives it will make landfall & contact next turn. There is a sea lane all the way south.





2 1700BC All boats in sea/ocean sink . But we have target directions: the west corridor and the south corridor.

3 1675BC All boats survive. IT: Hittites build Oracle.

4 1650BC All boats in sea/ocean sink.

5 1625BC Move boats.

6 1600BC All boats survive.

7 1575BC Move boats. IT: Inca build Colossus.

8 1550BC All boats in sea/ocean sink. Work plains for extra shield towards Curragh in Sushi, Writing still in 1.

9 1525BC Writing->Masonry (due in 10 turns). All boats in sea/ocean sink.

10 1500BC Move boats.

End-of-set report: all quiet. Push boats West and South. Going South I'd recommend heading down the ocean route as it's quicker. Masonry in 10, Pots next then Maps, unless something dramatic happens.

It's too bad our luck didn't hold one more turn but at least we're now close to meeting someone!

Good going eldar!

That's very frustrating, but quite amazing that they could go that far. I really doubt any of our pre-Torch ships will make it all the way. And I fear that we'll see maybe one or two teams at most who will luck out, and get a very different game than everyone else. Did I mention I dislike gilligan starts?

Current Roster and Schedule

• CommandoBob - UP! (Jan 4)
• Niklas - On Deck! (Jan 7)
• donsig - Warming Up (Jan 10)
• zyxy (Jan 13)
• Othniel (Jan 16)
• eldar (Jan 9)

CommandoBob, time for second run! I don't see our strategy changing much, it's masonry for prebuild, then MM to get the torch, all the while keep sending out curraghs. Anyone of a different opinion?

Ah.. just popped in here for a looksie.

Good luck, Smurkzes.

What do people reckon our chances are for getting Philo first and MM as a freebie? Just a thought before the chance goes begging....

Indeed, nice we got this far, too bad our luck didn't last one more turn. Both crossing seem to require 4 or 5 turns in ocean or sea, so indeed the probability of getting across without the GLight is low.

Niklas said:

CommandoBob, time for second run! I don't see our strategy changing much, it's masonry for prebuild, then MM to get the torch, all the while keep sending out curraghs. Anyone of a different opinion?

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I would like to see a plan for the GLight. Should we sacrifice some beakers for shields to optimize?

Philo is an option but risky...

Sorry for the delay; cold/flu/hacking cough has pestered me the last few days.

I'll download the save once I get home and post my strategy.