SGOTM 06 - The Real Ms. Beyond

Good to hear some practice game results! I've been worried about attacking archers defending capitals built on hills; I see this fear is well-founded.

Sooooo in his recent AW RB event report noted the importance of sending pillaging parties to stifle the AI. (This is what you're testing, right Ruff?) This is probably even more true if all the AIs are financial. Chariots are nice for pillaging parties too, since they can move and pillage flatland in one turn while being defended by other 1-move units.

I'm still working on getting a test game together, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to learn Perl to do what I'm hoping to do. (I want to edit a WB save of a randomly rolled simu-start so that the terrain closely matches the real game.) I doubt I'll get it together before we start playing again in earnest.

If there is interest, I'll try to edit a normal random start to something like what we've got (similar to what Swiss has done). Let me know if you'd use another map.
 
TheArchduke said:
So, the question is if a an early rush feasible against Hannibal? We would need more exploration data for this.
Click to expand...
Not really: it's still quite feasible against Alex, and would net us a great city in Athens; it's just going to be tough work. We can use Woody to scout for Copper at Athens and choke if he tries to hook it up (Athens or elsewhere).

So, perhaps the wiser idea is to strangle them economically with an axe/spear combo..
Click to expand...
Doesn't really work on its own as the AI will sneak a settler out the backdoor of its capital. It'll also encourage unit spam if we leave them to choke, so maybe a pre-horde pillaging party to the capital? But in Alex's case, he's got seafood and a golmine that'll have an archer sitting on it (his key tiles). No magic grasslands for him in the real game :lol:
 
Hmm, it seems the next session should see scouting of the two other capitals and a preparation for an axe rush then.

I still dislike the idea of founding mediocre cities nearby.
 
I have to say (without much AW experience in SP) that an early rush seems much more attractive than a pillage/stifling group. We will not be able to effectively hold back each AI for long, so we need to ask what we're trying to accomplish while stifling them....and what could be as useful as grabbing a juicy AI capital. I think an ax rush on Athens is worth the bloodbath.
 
My holiday season is over, and back to the dreck of work tomorrow. I am ready to start talking about this game.

Still a challenge for a test game, as I have a lot of personal tasks backlogged from the week off.
 
:bump:

@Compromise - now that the holidays are over, what are the plans moving forward?

It looks like we may have been the only team to put things on hold. I will concede you can only guess so much based on thread activity.
 
Glad to be in the new year! My last houseguests leave tomorrow, so I'll be back in the groove again. (I gotta get that RB report done today too.)

Is everyone else back now? Let's ramp it up again. We want to finish this by tax time (in the USA anyway).

I haven't looked to see how the other teams are doing.

I think we want at least one more city, then start pumping troops to start taking AI cities, starting with Athens.

If we are going to pillage (which I suspect is in addition to early attacks, not instead of them), I think we'll want at least two axes, a spear and a horse in the pillage parties. The axe is for defense against axes and swords, the spear defends against horses, the horse attacks axes and does the pillaging. Ruff, any advice to the contrary on that?

I'll have to look again at the map to think about where to plant new cities.
 
re pillaging - how big a stack should I be testing? You mention 4 while I have been thinking / testing a larger group.

I was thinking the following:

  • axe - defense on the flat
  • spear - defense against horses
  • archer - defense on hills (give the axe some support)
  • horse - pillage

Additional counts would be: axe, horse, spear, horse, axe, horse, spear, horse, etc in that order.

The horses (2 movements) do the pillaging and so you want to move the stack and pillage on the same turn - multiple pillage (road plus improvement or multiple cottage pillage).
 
I'm back in the saddle. Looking at the progress chart, only CFC are into the AD years and I assume they will break for Orthodox Christmas at the end of this week, so we're lagging a bit but not significantly.

I agree with Compromise on the second city. The question is where? As I see it, there the choice of fish/cows/rice towards Athens, or Horse/Cows/Spice to our north. I favour the latter as a bridge to Greece (though it does require Mysticism and a happy Monument to be useful). Before that, we need Woody to scout Greece for Copper.
 
Okay, let's get this baby back up to speed.

@ruff: I agree with your stack analysis. We might need more map info before deciding how many pillage parties to send out. I suspect the number will be greater than zero.

@swiss: I agree that Woody needs to scout Athens and environs for metal.

@ all: Tonight and tomorrow, I'm going to go through the old posts and compile a proposal for action for the next turnset or two. Any insights are welcome.
 
Guys - RL is on the hop again and I will need to convert to a lurker status - sorry and good luck.
 
I hope nothing's too bad, ruff :(

We'll always be happy to get some input along the way, so stop by when you can!

As for the game, I am back into the SGOTM groove and will (attempt to) offer some thoughts.
 
I've been staring at our map for a while to try to figure out where to play. One of the things I noticed about the winning team--CFC I think--in SGOTM5 was that they placed their cities so that they didn't need a border expansion to be effective.

With this in mind, I think our second city can't have too much (any?) jungle around it. I think we want horses asap too. So, I think the best spot for a city is either 1NW of the horses (which would have plains cows and plains horses in the first ring, or 1N of the horses which is much better long-term. The biggest problem with this location is that it's further from Alex. (But then, maybe it's closer to the other AIs.)

Once we have Iron, we may consider a city 1S-1SW of the plains hill gold that's 2SW of the capital. But by then, we may not want to be building any settlers.

The other cities seem like they'll take too long to become productive.

Another possibility is to settle directly on one of the elephants, but I think that's too far afield for our second city.

If the whole map is like this, we'll probably wish we had Stonehenge. Maybe we can capture it, though.

Thoughts?
 
If we want to go with cities with an ASAP pay-off then 1NW of the horses is the only logical choice. We need an axe up there to defend it, but once horses are connected then we can get them to the capital in three turns so we don't need to connect it by road to London, as the chariots will be able to catch up with the axes once on the road.

The capital can build a barracks and then train axes. Worker(s) road south towards Greece (at least part of the way). City two goes barracks, then chariots.

Research: Wheel - Pottery - IW. We may need to squeeze in Hunting before IW in case the AI have horses.
 
I think we've got enough of a plan to move forward. And I agree with Pottery before IW. We'll see about Hunting after we get more intel.

I wish 1NW of the horses had a little bit better long-term potential, but there's just no food there. I think we simply have to deal with it, though. It'll be a 9 hpt city at size 2, which should be good enough.

Swiss, I think you're up. Can you play late Sunday or sometime Monday? That should give time for other opinions and get us rolling again.
 
I'll play this tomorrow evening CET.

Some sad news for our team: sunrise089 has suffered a family bereavement, so he'll be concerning himself with more pressing matters over the coming days and weeks.
 
Decided to move woody ASAP into Greece and ran into a couple of lions whilst trying to get there. The first took him down to 0.3 and, in trying to get out of range of a wolf, got eaten. Count 1 for Death in the Death or Glory stakes. A replacement warrior is heading to Greece - who has recently whipped out a Settler (I assume) - but is healing in the forest.

Learnt The Wheel and have just completed Pottery. Revolted to Slavery at size 4 and have just whipped the settler. Decided to sans axe (but that should be next up). Worker has cleared one tile of fog, and is ready to head to cow-horse.

Not Good:

Civ4ScreenShot0231.jpg



Hannibal got religion:

Civ4ScreenShot0236.jpg



Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG006_BC2200_01.CivWarlordsSave
 
Okay, good to have some progress. I'll take a look at the save tonight to see about thoughts.

I want to throw out a suggestion to get some feedback. After Pottery, what if we aim for Construction (so, Writing, Math, Masonry, Construction) instead of Ironworking. If we settle or conquer a city near the elephants, we can be making cats and phants.
 
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