SGOTM 13 - Smurkz

Othniel said:

If we can spare the cash, I'd like to see Akichi and Ao make galleys instead of wealth once they finish their current builds. Building galleys might force us to drop science another notch, but we need contacts ASAP. Contacts will (should) drop our tech prices.

Click to expand...

Unit support is not a problem, so we'll make galleys.

But will that get our galley too far out of position to ferry the next settler we build?

Click to expand...

The galley in Sushi (4 turns away) will get the second settler in Sensei (7 turns away).

Also, let's make sure there is a warrior escort for the settler going to the Pink Dot.

Click to expand...

Warrior Akira can escort the Pink Dot Settler, but it means hiring a specialist in Akichi while he is gone.

After we deliver Pink Dot Settler, that galley will head back towards Sensei. We'll need to have one galley hanging around (or able to hang around) Sensei as our settler ferry. Any others can go exploring; Westwards first and then South, towards the Light Blue People.

Sorry for not providing any input for a few days.

It seems our cities are getting too large. I think it is very unwise to try to play this turn by turn. I'll try to whip up another plan later today.

Here is the best scheme I have been able to come up with sofar:


Notes:

1. In order to run Sensei and Sushi as 6-turn settler factories or 3-turn worker factories, they each need to produce 20 surplus food per 6 turns. That means they need the cow and the fish permanently, and the oysters 4 out of 6 turns.
2. Nibanme needs either the oysters or the bg. In view of the previous point, I permanently assigned the bg to Nibanme (after the first few turns).
3. How many shields can Sensei and Sushi produce per 6 turn cycle? The cow, the bg, the rock and the 2 city centres produce 7 spt, for 42 shields. On 4 turns we get a hills (or plains) on growth, for another 8 shields. We get the oysters permanently, so the surplus food can be used to work the hills for 2 more turns. In total this results in 54 shields per 6 turns. Even if we somehow manage to actually produce this, it is not enough for two settlers, and one settler plus two workers is the best we can hope for.
4. The scheme above accomplishes this. Indeed, the green colored cycle can be repeated as often as possible. When we don't need settlers anymore, we can easily switch to 3-turn workers from Sensei.
5. Workers will be useful! Even if there is nothing left to improve, it is way more efficient to produce workers from Sensei and Sushi and join them to other towns than to let those towns grow by themselves!
6. This scheme produces 3 units per 6 turns, on average this amounts to one galley load per 4 turns. Hence, if we are prepared to let the units wait a few turns, one galley will be just enough to ferry them across.
7. I think it is better to let Nibanme produce galleys than wealth.
8. In the scheme I scrapped the current galley build in Sushi in favor of a settler, which seems way more useful to me.

Something else: the settling order should be chose such that we can chop the forests for something useful. iT makes little sense to delay yellow dot until after lightblue, but white and blue should be delayed until after pink and black, respectively.

Wow, that is one busy spreadsheet!

I had to download the image in order to examine the turn-by-turn citizen details. And for me, given the MMing involved, this is far better than trying to describe what to do in words.

I do have only two anti- notes.

The Anti- Notes
First, and most important of the two, with only one galley, we stop exploration while we build cities. That deserves some discussion.

Second, we are going to work Gojira to death ferrrying settlers and workers across to South Smurkz (which is a good problem to have!). Gojira will have to ferry settlers across to Ao and let them walk to their new homes, and then sail back to get the next load. I had hoped to sail settlers down the coast and unload them close to their new city site, and thus get the cities built sooner. With two galleys this was rather easy. With only one it is not possible. They will have to get to there under their own power, which will take longer. However, since this plan gets us more settlers, I think it is a good trade-off.

Glad you liked the sheet! And sorry for the small size, the site that hosts my images decreases the size auto-magically. (But fortunately it is readable with zoom).

It would be nice indeed to have two galleys for ferrying. You could switch the harbor in Ao to galley. It doesn't really need a harbor yet, IMO.

Akichi will certainly profit from temple + harbor. But you could also choose to train a galley first. That will give one galley for a suicide run. I think in general that suicide runs will not be extremely beneficial. But we can certainly devote some new towns to galleys.

Hmm.

If Ao changes from harbor to galley we do get an extra boat, which will help move settlers around. But we lose the harbor, and starting the harbor again after the galley puts the completion date on that harbor at least 20 turns from now.

In that time we should have Wines connected. A harbor at Ao connects the Wines to Sensei, which means less MPs needed. Sure, unit support is not an issue right now, but we could use some muscle on the south island, in case barbarians spring up.

Ao: harbor in 6, then vGalley.

If we switch Akichi to galley, we lose a temple, and delay getting the fish to the NW of Akichi, since we need a culture expansion in order to claim those fish. The harbor then makes that fish more productive.

Akichi: temple in 4, then harbor.

Gojira is just going to be very busy the next 20 turns!

Spreadsheet by zyxy and discussion.

Ao: harbor, then vGalley.
Akichi: temple then harbor.


0/120 (Preflight)
Tiles to work:
Sensei (settler): fish, rock, coast, bg (plains)
Nibanme (galley): oysters, geek
Sushi (settler): cow, coast, bg, hills
Luxuries: 10%

Need to add Med Mod Pack (changed PCs). I did not see the Oysters!

Exit with no changes made.

Download, install, and start over.

Sushi: galley -> settler in 3; works the cow
Nibanme: wealth -> galley in 30.

Changes made; hit Enter.

[IBT 0150 BC]
Sensei settler -> settler in 8.


01/121 0130 BC
[IBT]

02/122 0110 BC
[IBT]
Sushi settler -> worker in 4.

03/123 0090 BC
[IBT]
Akichi temple -> harbor in 15

04/124 0070 BC
[IBT]
Sushi worker -> worker in 4.

05/125 0050 BC
[IBT]
Sensei settler -> settler in 6.
Ao harbor -> vGalley in 15.

Low cash warning. 4 gold in bank, -2 gpt.

06/126 0030 BC
[IBT]
Wonderful News



Persia builds Sun Tzu's Art of War in Persepolis.

More Wonderful News



Russia builds Knights Templar in Moscow.


07/127 0010 BC
[IBT]
Akichi's cultural borders expand and it now owns 2 fish and 1 whale tile.

08/128 0010 AD
[IBT]
Sushi worker -> worker in 4.
Cash flow warning.

09/129 0030 AD
[IBT]

10/130 0050 AD
[IBT]


And the save is >>HERE<<.

A fairly quiet set of turns.

Two cites added, thanks to zyxy's spreadsheet. A third settler is at sea, due to make landfall soon. A fourth settler will be born next turn.

Wines will be connected next turnset. WorkerA just started the road to connect Kiiro. Turns 1 and 2 complete the road. Once completed, I favor moving S (Turn 3), roading to connect Saki City (Turns 4, 5 and 6), moving 2S onto Wines (Turn 7), build a road (Turns 8, 9 and 10) and connecting wines on the following IBT. Connecting to the Wines south of Kiiro is faster (one less tile to road) but Saki City will be unconnected longer.

Nibanme will build an rGalley in two turns. I think it should pick up WorkerC and the new settler and carry them to the south lands. Gojira will take four turns to unload and sail back. Using the new galley is quicker.

Instead of unloading, Gojira can carry WorkerB and SettlerToSomeDot down the coast to claim the incense. WorkerB could road north to Saki City to get the Incense connected to Sensei.

The harbor in Kiiro and temple in Saki City are changeable. We don't need warriors yet, but we do need to consider having a barracks somewhere.

Map of South Smurkz 50 AD



The City Dots are the same as before.

I've mapped out a route for Gojira to take to reach the Incense on the south end of South Smurkz. That route will take four turns, unloading WorkerB onto the Incense and SettlerToSomeDot on the Light Green Dot on the fourth turn.

Alright, well played!

The AIs are running away fast... How can we ever catch up?

A few comments:

• Unfortunately, the luxes will not reach the starting island until Astronomy, as there is no coastal passage.
• The harbor in Ao is only costing us money at the moment .
• Taxmen are suboptimal: a scientist brings in 3 beakers, a taxman only 2 gold. But the slider does not discriminate between beakers and gold: 1 commerce spent on science brings 1 beaker, 1 commerce spent on taxes brings 1 gold (until markets/libs). Hence, when we are short on money, it is better to lower the science slider and hire scientists, rather than keep the science slider high and hire taxmen. The only exception is when we are close to discovering a tech, then overflow can make a difference.
• The citizens of Kiiro and Saki only produce food at the moment. I would hire scientists instead. Growing the town can be done more efficiently by adding workers, or once the citizens will also produce shields or commerce (this requires tile improvements). I would build galleys in these towns.
• The worker on board the galley can land on the forest SE-SE of Saki and chop.
• EDIT for some more things: I would let the other worker first road the wines S of Kiiro. This will give Kiiro a tile that brings 1 commerce, and help Akichi and Ao to grow. After that, the worker can connect Saki and start mining some tiles.
• Akichi can work whales + fish.
• Maybe the new worker from the island can start some bg mines in the Akichi - Ao area?

Looks alright, well played CB! Those wonder builds aren't exactly comforting...

I've got it, but I won't have the time to look it over until tomorrow night.

zyxy said:

Unfortunately, the luxes will not reach the starting island until Astronomy, as there is no coastal passage.

Click to expand...

Blast! I had forgotten that.

The harbor in Ao is only costing us money at the moment .

Click to expand...

Well, that follows from misunderstanding Astronomy. I thought we would be connected, etc....

Taxmen are suboptimal: a scientist brings in 3 beakers, a taxman only 2 gold. But the slider does not discriminate between beakers and gold: 1 commerce spent on science brings 1 beaker, 1 commerce spent on taxes brings 1 gold (until markets/libs). Hence, when we are short on money, it is better to lower the science slider and hire scientists, rather than keep the science slider high and hire taxmen. The only exception is when we are close to discovering a tech, then overflow can make a difference.

Click to expand...

I was doing that backwards: keeping the smart slider high to get more smart stuff and then hire a taxman to make up the cash flow. What is better is to lower the smart slider, have more gold go into the treasury naturally (so to speak) and then hire geeks to keep our research going.

Yep, that's new to me.

No pb CB, it is all minor stuff.

@all: I will be away from tomorrow morning until Thursday eve, without access to internet.

Good luck Niklas!

Thanks zyxy, and have fun!

Now all other things are out of the way for the time being, so I'll have a good look at the save and post a plan in a few hours. Dinner first though.

EDIT: Double-post due to browser crash. Too bad we don't have Methos here to remove it.

Alright, plan!

Towns:
For Sushi, Sensei and Nibanme, keep following zyxy's plan in this post.
Ao should switch taxman for scientist.
Akichi should fire scientist, working fish+whale instead.
Kiiro and Saki to scientists, we'll grow them with worker joins from our better growers instead.

Research:
Dribble with the slider so that we get minimal overflow on turn three when we get Lit. Had we had 1 gp more, we could have gotten it in 2 turns. That's not to say there's any real point to doing that. We won't build libraries, and we'll start saving up gold after it completes. I might even go for getting it in four turns, using mostly scientists (4x3x4=48, we need 58), and saving up gold in the mean time.

Research to Philosophy after Lit completes - though at 0% research rate while we save up gold for a max run. Scientists will keep running though. This gives us maximum flexibility if/when we actually manage to meet someone.

Units:
Send Gojira south to unload settler at Green Dot and worker at incense. Good plan CB.

WorkerA will complete road, then move W-S and road the wines, connecting them to the Kiiro, Ao and Akichi. After that road towards Saki. WorkerB will road the incense, won't complete until one turn after my turnset.

Galley from Nibanme in 2 turns will pick up settler and worker and head southwards. WorkerC unloaded at Akichi to start mining. Settler will go to Dark Green dot, by unloading inside Saki and walk the last stretch.

Galleys will head back towards home after deeds well done.

Comments?

I'm content with the plan.

Go for it ...

Sorry for the delay, I was struck with a bad headache yesterday and couldn't bring myself to play in that condition. I'll get to it in a few hours.

Plan sounds fine.

Let's be sure to make galleys in Saki, Kiiro, and the new towns. The temples and harbors can wait for them (Saki won't ever need a temple, I think).

Hope you feel better, Niklas. Play when you can.

>>The Save<<

50 AD (0):
Hire a few scientists, fire one. Kiiro and Saki to galleys instead of harbor and temple. Set research to 20%, allowing the scientists to mostly finish the tech. ETA 4 turns, 12 gpt.

IBT: Wow, this is taking long... Sensei settler->settler, after ~6 mins.

70 AD (1):
Gah, Sushi didn't get hills on growth since it was only doing 3 fpt before, I should have seen that. I'll have to adjust the table a bit then - easily done since we have a food surplus, we just switch fish for plains for one turn, costs one commerce but gets us the worker on time. I need to adjust Sensei as well since it will otherwise run into the same problem in a few turns.

Sensei works cow+plains (2 fpt), Sushi works fish+oysters+bg (4 fpt).

Research stays at 20%, with 4 scientists that's 15 bpt, 42 left to Lit. 10 gpt.

Gojira south, new settler and worker to Nibanme, nothing else of note.

IBT: Another ridiculously long IBT. Nibanme galley->galley.

90 AD (2):
WorkerA has completed road to connect Kiiro with Ao and Akichi, now moves to the wines S of Kiiro.

Settler and WorkerC board new galley, heads towards the larger island.

Sensei works cow+fish (4 fpt), Sushi works oysters+bg+hills (2 fpt, 5 spt to recover the two we lost earlier).

Research at 20%, 15 bpt, 27 left to Lit, 10 gpt.

IBT: Sushi worker->worker


110 AD (3):
Having nothing better to do with the new worker (WorkerD) I send him to mine the cows. It won't have any effect until we get out of despotism, but why not?

Gojira is actually able to take a more efficient route to its destination, so it is able to unload the settler and worker on Green Dot this turn. That saves us a turn to settling, the worker will still need to move first, but it also allows the galley to turn back one turn earlier.

WorkerA starts roading wines.

Research to 0%, 12 gpt with 12 left, 14 gpt.

Aargh, just realized the plan wanted me to build a worker in Sensei that whould have been completed this turn. No use switching now and wasting a lot of turns, so I'll have to go settler before worker.

Sensei works cow+rocks+bg (3 fpt), Sushi works oysters+fish (4 fpt).

IBT:


130 AD (4):
I change my mind and unload the settler and WorkerC in Ao instead, to let the galley return sooner. Gojira starts moving towards home too.

Kemuri (smoke) settled next to the incense, runs a scientist and starts galley.

WorkerC starts mining a BG near Ao/Akichi. WorkerB moves onto the incense.

Philo at max (90%) research means 10 turns at -6 gpt, we currently have 47 gp. But at 37 bpt that's 370 in 10 turns, and we only need 342, so 10 turns should be easy. We'll also settle more towns, and some will grow, so a max run now seems possible. However, I don't really see the point of it. There's nothing we want with Philosophy, it's Republic that matters. I'll just keep the scientists and run at 0% research until we're ready for a massive max run. Philo in 23 at +17 gpt.

Sensei cow+rocks+coast (3 fpt), Sushi fish+oyster+bg (4 fpt).

IBT:

150 AD (5):
Galleys head northwards. WorkerB starts roading incense.

Sensei works fish+cow+rocks (4 fpt), Sushi works oysters+bg+plains (2 fpt)

IBT: Sushi worker->worker


170 AD (6):
WorkerA connected the wines and now moves E to connect Saki. WorkerE (new) moves to help WorkerD with the mine, still two turns until the galley gets there.

Sensei works cow+rocks+2xcoast (3 fpt), Sushi works oysters+fish (4 fpt)

Ao can fire the scientist for a coast, net worth +2fpt +1gpt, but -3bpt. We need to grow it though, to make good use of the bg tiles that are being mined, and we can't hope to grow all towns here through workers from the core. Kiiro can do the same by working the (now roaded) wines.

IBT: Sensei settler->worker

190 AD (7):
WorkerA starts road to Saki. New settler boards galley, Gojira also crosses to starting continental waters.

Sensei works cow+bg (3 fpt), Sushi works fish+oysters+plains (3 fpt).

IBT:


210 AD (8):
Bahitsu (horses) founded next to the (surprise!) horses. Can work oysters for 2 gpt, starts a galley.

Despite the best intentions I seem to have gone out of whack with the pumps back home. Oh well, one of them will have to step back a turn, can't grow both of them and complete the workers at the same time. Or hmm, hang on, yes I can. It might give me problems in two turns again though, but I'll have to try.

Sensei works cow+fish (4 fpt), Sushi works oysters+bg+plains (2 fpt).

WorkerD boards galley, WorkerE moves to mountain to road, having nothing better to do. There'll be two more workers after the IBT who can board the next ship.

Ship-chain the settler into Gojira, allowing the latter to move south without making landfall, the other galley moves back towards land again for more workers to pick up.

IBT: Sensei worker->settler, Sushi worker->worker, Akichi harbor->galley

230 AD (9):
Unload settler in Ao, Gojira turns back north. WorkerF boards galley while WorkerG moves to mountain to help roading.

I was just stupid last turn, Sushi can't work fish, oysters and cows for 5 fpt with only two citizens... Ok, so Sushi will build its next worker in 4 turns then, and Sensei will likely build a settler in 7.

Sensei works fish+cow (4 fpt), Sushi works oysters+bg (3 fpt)

IBT:

250 AD (10):
Workers D and F unloaded on the southern continent.

Akichi has grown to size 3, can do 4 fpt by working 2xfish+whale. Ao can now make 3 spt working the now mined BG, but doesn't need more than 2 shields to complete the galley, so I leave it on coast for now.

WorkerC starts mining another BG, this time between Kiiro and Ao. WorkerA has connected Saki and moves south to connect Bahitsu. Settler moves to the same spot, should move 1E next turn and settle in two. Or if we want to chop the forest first, move this settler to the southern tip. It'll be a longer walk, but it costs us 10 shields.

Ok, time to hand off. I realize I should have stopped and redone the plan when I discovered the flaw in it, but I didn't want to hold up the game even more. Clearly a mistake, my apologies for that.

Current Roster and Schedule

• Othniel - UP! (Feb 2)
• donsig - On Deck! (Feb 5)
• zyxy - Warming Up (Feb 8)
• eldar (Feb 11)
• CommandoBob (Feb 14)
• Niklas (Feb 17)