Nobles Club IV - Frederick of Germany

Tech order was,
Fishing(popped) > Bronzeworking > Aggriculture > Animal husbandry > Wheel > Mysticism > Poly > Priesthood(started)

Build in the capital,
Worker > Wboat > Wboat > Warrior > Warrior > Settler > Worker > Settler

I was a bit lucky with my first hut, popped fishing, how handy is that!



other huts were all gold except I popped some experience for my scout! Met the Locals, Pacal(jaaboo!), Gandhi, Monty and later Huayna. A fairly nice bunch except for monty who is a nutcase! Monty and religions aside we could have some nice tech trading partners here.

heres the planned locations for my first few cities (thanks again to Diamond eye for the help)



My Plan

My plan is to go down the fairly straight forward SE bulbing route. I'll build the oracle after my next settler and nab Code of laws for courthouses and caste system. Pyramids will be my next priority (as Huayna is industrious) to get Rep.

I'll probably tech down the Aesthetics/Lit path to build the Great Library also goes in the right direction for Philosophy.

I need to tech writing/maths/alphabet to open up bulbing for Philosophy/paper/education. I'll use all my early scientists for bulbing. And then settle most of the rest in my future Oxford.

I'm going to try and avoid war and rex peacefully for now with a view to warring only when its neccessary.

True. But I'm eager to claim horses as I don't have many military options until I claim the copper plus I want to claim as much of the lands north of the capital as possible, just feel I need to settle towards pacal rather than have him nab those spots.

The Fish/Cow isn't going anywhere just yet, plus I plan to Rex hard from now on so hopefully it won't be too long before I have six cities. Although thinking about it with both the cow/fish and the Clam/Clam cities I can run a hefty amount scientists early for bulbing.

Is anyone having any trouble with Pacal? He is REXing like mad, and he's huge now. I have around 5-6 cities at like 50%, but he has like 8.

It's been ugly as hell. I wound up DoWing pacal and the result was a 500 + WW blood bath. I'll post a report once I finish the game. It looks winnable but it will be sloppy since tech is so crappy that monty is still in it (he's my friend ).

Well, things have gone reasonably well. I managed to achieve my pre-set goals, but not without some decision making. First, my scout wandered around, but didnt manage another hut. Shame too, he popped one for XP and I gave him Wood II so he could get around fast. After meeting 5 of our 6 Pangaea (I assume) mates, I finally planted him in a good spot to watch for anyone trying to poach my area to the SW. Shame the closer AI are the screwiest, Pacal is a land whore and Monty is just plain nutso. Washington and Gandhi can both usually be trusted, and you can keep Monty on your side pretty easily with religion. Oh well, I plan to stomp both Pacal and Monty and that should give me a veritable plethora of cities (pretty sure that means lots and lots of them). Ol Freddy is a pretty good city-spammer in his own right, but running a no-cottage SE is going to be . . . well, interesting to say the least:



I easily got the GW up, and the Oracle was no problem either. I have to think I was doing pretty well, but at what cost? My military was zero. I did get the wonderful news when I teched IW, I knew I couldnt wait to trade for it. I thought for sure it would pop on that hill but I love grass-mines.

I opened borders with all who asked after writing, but refused all requests to stop trading or join their Holy Wars. Monty went after Washington first, which made me happy. He was also mad at Gandhi, which is also just fine. No reason to look this way, Monty! I will send some boys with Swords and Cats round soon enough! First GP pops, a spy, that was predictable. My GP pool is very polluted, but I got the forge up FAST and get an Engineer running ASAP. Second one is coming . . . lets pray for a GE



nope, I get a Spy again. Settled him next to his buddy, this is a nice map to have a bunch of spy points, thats for sure. It wont hurt me in the slightest.

However, I am now concerned about the Mids. My whole game hinges on them, so I dont leave it to chance, and get 3 workers busy chopping out the trees. I have teched Maths, so if I do get a GE, I have the HGs to build with him. Half my cities have sucky health already. During all that, Washington comes and offers a trade:



Works for me. I dont want to pass MC around, but Washington can use it for help with Monty, maybe. I also do some trades with Pacal, I want him staying away from me til I am ready.

Finally, its 190 AD, and my game gets a LOT easier:



I have also settled a total of 4 cities, strung them straight across to the east. The barbs have already built my next 2 cities for me:



Here is the current status of Berlin:



My plan now is to build troops, get those 2 barb cities for myself, and get busy. I have teched Construction as well. I also got a Horse pop in Hamburg, and settled a city ON the Elephants on the East coast. Seemed the best compromise. I am likely to move my cap to Munich if it gets to the point where maint is too big, but Freddys ORG trait and fast courthouses will be awesome. Gandhi has COL, I am hoping to trade him MC for it so I can tech to Lit for the GL, but I might just send a spy that way. I have to be out-espionaging everyone with the 2 settled Great Spies. If I get another, Scotland Yard will be a great build. I think this game is well in hand.

Very very difficult map. Health is an issue. IW is required ASAP both for Military and chopping jungle. I am going to try not to settle any inland cities off fresh water, if possible. Coastal cities can get Harbors, so thats all good, but I am not even aiming for the Colossus this map. The south-eastern coast seems unsettlable, I cant figure a way to chain farms in, and one plains cow isnt going to grow a city for crap. Might be a good spot to spam settlers to post Biology when going for a Domination win, but other than that, I dont think I will be putting cities there.

Okay, Pacal got boxed in by both me and Monty at the same time. Hilarious. First off, my timeline of important events:

1430 - Gold discovered at Hamburg! hurrah
1360 - Great Spy in Berlin, settled
1300 - Temple of Artemix built faraway
950 - Munich founded
700 - I pop a second spy at Berlin, build scotland yard
640 - I finish researching Construction. Very glad I did, later
390 - Monty build pyramids, switches to police state
250 - I declare war on Monty. He's top in power and score, but none of his outlying cities have culture.
200 - Oracle built faraway
150 - Stole Mysticism from Pacal
100 - Great Scientist in Berlin, Academy
90 - Monty's first stack in my lands destroyed, with no units lost on my side
80 - Great General in Berlin (woo great wall)
1 AD - Monty's second stack defeated, again, no units lost by me. He really shouldn't end turns out in the open.

Pacal is gearing up for war, probably with me. If he declares, I just might have more on my hands than I can manage. Pacal only seems to have 3 or 4 cities.

I settled my third city out away towards the middle, in order to choke Pacal. There's a Barbarian city on the corn/dye spot to the west. I"m gonna steal all of the techs on the mysticism path, just to save time in researching. The only one I want, really, Monarchy. But IF I conquer Monty, I get the pyramids and the Buddhist holy city. Hm.

No pics.

Catapults are superior defensive units. I never really have had anyone invade me with a stack before. Monty sure is a nut. The only thing that irks me is the Jaguar's Woodsman I promotion. When his stacks end turns in forests, even my Axemen can't get at them. :/ But the Jaguar's 5 strength is really hurting him now. I've razed two of his cities, and my offensive mini stack was mostly depleted a third city, after losing TWO 67% attacks.

I'm rebuilding, gearing up for a 2nd stack, this time to go straight for his capitol. I'll pack it with catapults and axemen. If I capture his capitol, I'll probably make peace with him, and convert to Buddhism. Both Pacal and Monty are Buddhist (!!!) so hopefully it will appease them both.

I think researching Construction early and building the GW are the two best things I have done. The second GSpy was really a boon.

EDIT: Also, I declared war on Monty mainly to get the jump on him. I was pissing him off earlier by refusing to give him tribute and stuff, mainly to entice him. Also, razing two of his cities means we're gonna be locked in this war for good. I didn't want him warring another person because he was big enough already. D:

Yes, I noticed this and almost too late. I noticed this after I showed up on his doorsteps with 8 swordsmen and a few axes and spears.

However, I did have a few words of consolation for the kid;

Here are the three images of what I consider my territory.



First the northern lands (Maya). Pacal built his cities poorly, with way too much overlap. I should have razed the iron city and moved it to the coast. Oh well. Live and learn. It will not be much of a city, I fear. Monty's lands are three tiles east of the cows up there and I feared pushing a border with him so soon. I want him warring with the eastern Buddhist bloc. Not much to say about maya, I may cram two cities in later to work the gold for the added commerce, but I can't see it as a big priority. I need to reveal the water to the west of Hamburg, there may be a good fishing/corn village that can work that dye. As for the jumbos, I can't really see a good city site there except maybe one north of the rice? Meh. I like rivers, I need more of them.

My priority spot I think is two north of the eastern nanners to work the copper, rice, nanners and good farmable land. This will be one of the first front lines vs. Monty.



A better view of the Aztec front. I added dots to show where I think I should settle.


And then Germany Antiqua, the heartland of my empire. Those giant plains west of Munich are depressing. I wager there's a late game resource out there (which is more depressing. Equally depressing is the one tile too far spread between the rice and cows. I opted for the cows for the added production *shrug* but more so for some river access so I could get some farms going. There's not even a lot of fish for good coastal cities (which are not a priority, someone already nabbed the GLH.) One east or one north of the rice seems like an okay choice. I dunno, I might have picked some poor spots, but Pacal had already laid down some borders. One good coastal city might be 2E of the fish off the Berlin penisula.

Pacal is a freak. I'm ON NOBLE. He has like 12 cities, a huge tech lead. I might start over just to beat him.

Sounds like I made the right choice, then.

I want the ponies!

Ok I am building up my army a lil bit and wham good news Monty sends a missionary (I think it must have been a missionary since all my cities already had religions) and I FINALLY get buddhism in my empire so I switch to TRY and get some positives back with monty so I can keep him off my back while I taje care of Pacal.

It is STARTING to look hopeful. Pacal has been cut down BIG time he drops all they way down to even below goerge. I figure one more big push and I can FINALLY take out the city with AP and SoZ. I DOW and take out his last city to the north to give my borders there some breathing space and take out the ONLY city Pacal has in that area capable of porducing anything. I after I raise that city I start to move south and then go after that &^*&^* SoZ city and AP that is killing me slowly. The WW is over a 1000 now and I have NOTHING to counter it no jails yet no rushmore no police state NOTHING. In my biggest cities the WW is already at like -10-15 anti war sad faces PLUS 5 plus unhappy faces in some for defying AP votes trying to make me give back cities to pacal on top of that then the whip rage and then just the regular its too crowded. In my biggest cities which WERE as high as 14 are now down to 10 from starvation AND still have like over 25-30 total unhappiness. Pretty much ALL my major cities are in starvation now beacuse of unhappiness. But I STILL think I can make it. Pacal is reeling and he is pretty much less than 20 turns away from being crippled for good then I can take a breather TRY to build up and get rady to go on to Monty. BUT Pacal decides to vassalize to Monty which of course means NOW monty is automatically at war with me .

Monty sends in in a HUGE stack so high I cant even count it but 40 units all otgether coming in fast. I KNOW where he is likely to be headed so I move my attack stack to towards the city he will be after--the SAME one he attacked for ALL those freaking turns that kept me spinning my wheels and put me so far behind .

He comes in with Trebs with maces pikes eles and muskets and knights. AGAIN going through hills and forrests. I do my BEST but the stack is JUST too big and counters EVERYthing I have. I suicide ALL my siege I have left on it and he STILL has healthy maces muskets and pikes. SO THEN I suicide my eles and one even wins but soon all my eles are gone. I HAVE been using gold from taking cities and making sure I keep my gold flow positive so by this time at least all my units are upgraded to maces. He still has like 2 combat2 formation pikes in the forest so I am like MAN my knoghts wont make a dent on those to I use my maces which I have like 20. by time its over and I start actullay winning some battles my I have like 6 that survived and he still has a HUGE stack. but the pikes are out so at least my knights I been holding back have a shot at least. Or so I thought even after ALL that he STILL has TWO eles of his own that havent even been damaged yet. I have NO choice but send em in it takes 5 knights to kill them 2 of which at least retreated and then I send in my last to kill off some wouldned macemen. The ONLY good knews was the flanking attack on the trebs he brought I SWEAR the "your knight as killed a treb from flanking attack" messages lasted like 2 minutes just one right after the other after last 3 final battles. and in the end all but one of his trebs died at least. but now my army is SHREDDED its down to less than 1/3 of what it was and what is left alive is ALL woulnded plus Monty still has a HUGE stack in my borders and since even wounded units can pillage and some of them are muskets which I cant take out all its just a waiting game until he sends another stack into me which can since his army is waaay over twcide my sixe still

The WW has my cities ALL cripples so they cant porduce much even IF I whip I can whip maybe 5 units MAYBE double that if i go suicidle and whip everything down to the bone but after that those citties will be starved down to 3 or less before they gorw again which means production, sceines everything is kaput at that point. and 10 units wouldnt even handle the stack Monty still has in my borders much less whatever else he and pacal has coming.

Plus now since anything I do make will be just doing its best to hold off Monty I cant even hope to finish Pacal BUT the WW will still be happening PLUS any WW I will start getting with Monty even if I TRY to go after him.

And even worst part is NOW taking out the WW city wont help as much. Taking the city means any WW I get AFTERwards wont get doubled but ALL the WW I aquirred before then will still apply and since Pacal is now a vassal to Monty he wont surrender unless I either take out enough of Pacals cities --meaning just adding on to the WW that he MIGHT want to break away which is no gurantee especially since he vassalized voulntarily to Monty. And of course the WHOLE time while I would be trying that monty would be coming at me hard. Or I could try to take out monty to point where he will give up Pacal or at least want peace BUT I dont have an army left big enough to even take out whats left of his wounded stack in my borders. I dont even have enough production to make enough units to take out that stack by the time it heals itself. And thats assuming Monty wont be sending anything more inside the next 5-10 turns.

I just dont have the units fight back and I dont have the production that has even a HOPE of getting enough units anytime soon. And this isnt EVEN considering how my tech is still all shot now from all the unhappiness and BOTH monty and pacal are teching like mad which measn even if say somehow I live the 30-40 turns to get a decent stack of maces knights or whatever they will most likelly be fighting grenadiers, and curiassers :/.

It just seems hopeless so I gave up

I dont think replay will help much. :/ The BIGGEST problem was fact that Pacal REXed like crazy while Monty pretty much steam rolled George and ghandi so BOTH were huge FAST and I couldnt do ANYTHING.

Only way I can see to stop it is to kill Pacal early. BUT knowing that and knowing the map it means A) no copper anywhere close and yeah hoses are a little closer BUT Pacal gets a resourceless spear. So that means beelinging wheel and AH while sending off first settler fast to the where I KNOW horses will show up and then TRY and chariot rush Pacal before he gets to BW but something like that is NOT how someone what start off playing Freddy and the ONLY reason someone would be is because they know the map and everything else beforehand. and even that is assuming chariots get done in time.

If they dont copper is even further away and that means trying for IW fast which will be tuffer unless you just try and choke pacal which would be hard once he starts making holkans and NONE of this is even figuring out how to keep Monty at bay while all thi sis going ESPECIALLY if you wait to point where Pacal can bribe monty to jump in.

So its like either prepare for all out early war--which would be taking advantage of knowledge form the first try and playing COMPLETELY different than I would try to play a civ/leader like freddy with germany if I didnt have that knowledge or just I dont know. Even rexing fast could be tough because you would have to REX alot and far to try and pin Pacal in and even then you would be planting cities you wouldnt normally do except for using extra knowledge and even THEN you still eventually have to worry about two front war with Pacal and monty.

It just feels like you start out pinned in on a small penninsula with two VERY agressive leaders to far away to easily rush who both have early, resoursless UUs and you're using a civ that needs a little time and space to really get going and he just doesnt have much chance to get either in this map :/. Or at least I wasnt able to but then like I keep saying that is why I SHOULDNT be playing prince .

In fact games like this make me think I should go back to warlord diff.

Our scout detects an edible plant. Maybe we can figure out a way to benefit from this plant. And we can add 4th hill to production capacity. No good enough reason to relocate, so let's settle in place.

On the first night in the mighty village of Berlin, we sit around the camp fire to figure out what we will do next. We drink a beer and start discussing. We know how to build mines, and we know how to hunt animals. We really are a very advanced tribe. But noone is willing to get their hands a little dirty. And there is nothing to hunt. But we do have clams. There has to be something we can do with them? But we'll have to figure out a way to get them out of the water. Meanwhile i start training a warrior.

The scout runs into some cute little houses on top of a hill to our east. We stop by to say hello to our neighbors. friendly people. they even give us 31 shinies saying we can use them to buy stuff. but never mentioned where

in the year 3800 bc we figure out a way to get those clams out of the water. we need to build a building that floats. So we start building a building that floats immediately after our worker is trained. Over the years we need to train our army, building that floats is shortened to boat. And when we start building it, we find out this is taking a long time. Obviously we need more wood. So we decide we need to figure out a way to chop down trees.

To our west we find more edible plants. And funny black and white animals. For some reason we cannot hunt them. Very confusing, this world.
We also see some of those friendly villagers living just south of the cows. We just have to go say hello (and maybe get more shinies )

In 3750 we meet Pascal, but he does not like us very much. Oh well. We're on our way to get more shinies. And we get them. 39 even!

This Pascal did make us curious. Where did he come from? So we decide to try to find out.

In 3450 we somehow find out that hindusomething was founded somewhere. No clue what they are talking about so we don't care.

Meanwhile we find Pascal lives north of us. And in 3300 we finally figure out a way to chop down trees. In 3175 our first boat sails out to go get some of those clams. It turns they are not dead, and in fact, taste pretty good. Word is these clams are very helpful when making babies, and our population starts increasing rapidly.

In 3100 villagers refuse to give us shinies. instead they teach us how to work iron. Which is really cool, cause it seems we have some in Berlin!
And we find more goodies on the same turn. Truffles! How delicious!

Meanwhile we figure out how to really benefit from those edible plants we discovered centuries ago. We better figure out a way to transport all that food and that iron to our city. An animal attacks our scout. He lives, fortunately. He will have rest a little, nipping from the red crossed jug. Next turn a very big black cat attacks him. But he survives again and is now a bit more woodwise.

Another hut with friendly people. 77 shinies. so far we already have 147 of them! In 2850 we meet Montezuma. Scary guy who sacrifices people just to celebrate. Fortunately he's not very close.

We finish the wheel. Our worker will be busy for a while, so we decide to grab sailing and start building a settler. He starts a little village across the water, inbetween the cows and elephants.

Our scout (woodII meanwhile) meets a little guy named gandhi. And shortly after that Huayna Capac. Ghandi adopts organized religion. We like organized stuff. But what's religion? We research mysticism to find out more. And in 1850 we build a stone circle.

You popped Ironworking from a hut? Nice! now why does that never happen to me?

I founded confu (oracle) got a priest and built the shrine. about 70 turns later I realised I clicked the wrong button! I settled him by accident. Not sure whether to reload or just play on. As it happens it was a bit handy, helped with maintenance but long term won't be as profitable as a shrine and I probably won't be getting any more prophets.

Monty doesn't put up much of a fight, haha. I seriously need to squash Pacal next, though.