Nobles Club IV - Frederick of Germany

Washington was a pain. I did a frogleap, where we would go to war and I would capture 2 or 3 cities and then he'd give me a tech and I'd lay off for 10 turns and let my economy lick its wounds. This lasted from 1000 to 1400.
Then around 1400 I switched to Judiasm (which everyone in the world was) and HR to get + points with Capac. Now I'm buddy buddy with Capac, who is second in score behind me. Gandhi is the farthest in tech, but does not have rifling yet. I have grenadiers, and am researching steel. in 1400 I was 7th (last) in tech, now I am 2nd. My economy has rebounded, thanks to Banking I got from Washington and whipping harbors. I won the harbor quest, so they all produce an extra gold.
I'm still first on the power graph, and I'm going to start building a cannon/grenadier stack to take out Gandhi. I also have 9 CR3 grenadiers.

I traded maps with Washington AND WHAT THE HELL. This map is horrible.

Early on, Hamburg was founded and started a monument.



Writing was the next tech target, so tech goes wheel -> writing.

I'm focusing on expansion until writing comes in, so settlers/workers from the capital

Met Gandhi in 1600 BC and Huayna in 1520.

In 1400 I founded Munich:



Iron working came in in 675 BC and there is iron in Berlin's fat cross!



Shortly after that I founded Cologne, and stopped playing:



The Map:



This is shaping up to be a tough game.. Not an easy map at all, not to mention I'm slightly above my "comfort zone" at Monarch, especially with the subpar play so far

Like I said, absolutely nothing happened. The only things worth mentioning:

• 
  I switched to Buddhism as soon as it spread to one of my cities (not sure if this was in set 1 or 2 though.
  I was first to code of laws, and founded confucianism. Rather late. I also managed to build the Oracle. And choose Metal Casting.
  Pascal was being a pain in the uknowhere, making demands and offering crappy deals. I did give in and gave him Mathematics cause my army wasn't exactly capable.
  Montezuma asked me to stop trading with Gandhi. I gave in. Gandhi didn't matter to me, keeping Monte pleased did.
  Next turn Monte dows Gandhi. And asks me to join. Which I do - without planning to actually go to war. I did kill an Indian warrior wandering around Frankfurt. Might be helpful when sueing for peace. Else I will send a small stack over to do some pillaging.
  I started the pyramids rather late, but i finished them. In 70AD

All of my cities are in jungle, there are hardly any forests to chop. Which is why I don't have as many worders as I would like to have. But they are pretty much online now and can hold their own. Research is at 80%, +2 gold.
I did manage to seal off a nice piece of land. I could even build another city east of Frankfurt. But my borders are stretched enough as they are.

2 Priests were born in Berlin. Both are settled.

I haven't changed civics at all. Now that the mids are finished, I am about to switch to representation/caste system.

For eye candy, here are my cities, and some demographics. Can't really see Hamburg and Cologne due to the 'name screenshot' popup.



Berlin, and Hamburg.


Munich, Cologne (jungle, copper in bfc)


Frankfut (jungle, settled on top of former barb ruins)


demographics.


foreign relations.


Score


And power




My plans for the next set:

Build 4-5 settlers in Berlin and backfill in one quick wave. Also build quite a few workers. Hamburg switches to military builds only, Pascal and Monte are just too powerful. No plans to go to war yet. But we'll see about that.

Feel free to comment on my far from efficient game so far. Or suggest future strategies ^_^

Yeah I'm feeling the same love for this map... Sick!

I've taken out pacal, and taken a selection of his cities, had a bit of a struggle as he had settled some island cities and became monty's vassal, but he's dead... finally.

I still don't feel like I'm teching as well as I'd like for this stage of the game, and its time to decide whether to continue warring (against monty) to make myself a monster, or turtle up and try and tech away. I'm also hung up about whether to go for State property for the production and maintenance or chase corps for more food for my specialists.

I'm trying to run as pure an SE as possible with no cottages, There are still a couple in pacal's ex-lands but I'll be farming over them soon. At the moment I'm running full-on scientists in all my food heavy cities, and I'm getting 623 beakers @ 0% on the slider with a -11 defacit.

Here are some info screenies! First my empire,



And the cities themselves,



Power,



and finally tech,

My only question/critique/complaint is on your placement of Munich; why one off the river? Was it to avoid overlap with Hamburg?

Sort of a spoiler hint:

I can see you've already scouted most of the land. Take note of the Gems just east of Frankfurt ... they're the only Gems on the map! (In case you want to include them in your next expansion wave.)

Settling Munich on the river would have meant no elephants. I already had some, so didn't care for the ivory or next to worthless camps. But it seemed like a good idea to deny Pascal access to war elephants.

About the diamonds, I was on my way to settle there and grab them, and the dye. But Monte was quicker

Grrr ... gotta hate that. Did you see what happened to the Gems in my game? Gandhi took over a Barbarian city planted there only to have it recaptured by Attila the Hun (random event) the very same turn, lol. Surprisingly, Attila left it completely empty and in revolt while his horde of Horse Archers raced off to pillage something else, lol!

I was able to raze the city a few turns later just before my Settler got there to move it! (whew)

I kinda figured that was the case with Munich .. I was just curious.

I haven't really read any of the other game reports. Even when I am way past those dates, I find out new information in those spoilers. Like I didn't know about Wang Kon, didn't meet him till 100AD. And of course I had no idea those were the only gems in the game

None of that really matters. With Gem Cityith I would have had 4 neighbors, now I have only 2. Which probably is a good thing ^_^

It's now time to REALLY dig in and get my economy rolling. Pacal will be the first target - not Monty - after some consideration.

The mids are going up at Berlin, slowly because it's set for growth, but that will change at size 6.

Monty demands a clam



I decide that his cities are not at healthy caps right now anyway, so I cave. I'll just cancel it after 10 turns anyway.
So as planned, I make nice with Monty for the moment. Expect that to change later on.

475 BC: Polytheism -> Mathematics

Next few turns are quiet, only eventful thing is Huayna converting to Judaism.

275 BC:

Gandhi gets alphabet and offers this trade:



Accepted it because he's nowhere near me and I have metal myself.

200 BC:
'Mids are in:



I revolt to rep immediately and run scientists in Berlin, research is a bit better now..

25 BC:
GE pops in Berlin and gets settled for 3H 6B

1 AD:
Gandhi demands that I cancel deals with Monty, I don't want negative diplo with Monty at all, so I send him home.
Also, Math -> Construction

I'm massing swords/axes/spears for the assault on Pacal, post construction with catapults, I'll declare.

300 AD:
Construction -> HBR
GE pops in Berlin, settled.

425 AD:
Pacal beats me to the punch:



I've been expecting it, he's been in WHEEOHRN for a few turns, his freaking HUGE stack consists of 1 chariot and 1 swordsman. I hope his cities are as poorly defended!



Also met Wang Kon this turn.



450 AD:
I'll let this screen speak for itself.




475 AD:
Met Washington, he's "darned glad" to meet me, but he doesn't look it....



500 AD:
HBR in, start making jumbos, pacal is toast because Monty declared on Washington. Excellent!
I lost 4 swords this turn taking the Confucian holy city of Chichen Itza.



I stopped here and will pick up the war next time. Tech rate is SLOW and I'm running 0% beakers with only one city running scientists. Not to mention I have 2 cities working a bunch of unimproved tiles..

I shopped around HBR to the Hindus because I plan to join them soon, I got:
Alphabet for HBR + 10 gold (Wang Kon)
Calendar for HBR + 80 gold (Huayna Capac)
Meditation + Monotheism + Priesthood for HBR (Gandhi)

Overall, good value, especially since it enabled Jumbos as well.

Big and Small map? They always seem to have a lot of jungles/forests, this one is no different.

My 2 neighbors to the north are becoming too powerful. But Pascal is friendly with me and Monte is pleased (while furious with Wang Kon and annoyed with Washington).

Pascal is also friendly with Monte. Monte is also pleased with Pascal. We all share the same religion.Pascal has Gandhi as a vasal (voluntarily), Monte has Huayna as a vasal (voluntarily as well). That leaves Washington as the only target for expansion. But going after him means leaving my backdoor wide open. Much as I like my neighbors in this game, I don't trust them that much.

Going after Pascal first makes most sense. But I wouldn't be surprised at all if Monte comes after me within a few turns as well. I really don't want that. So:

• I could try to convert Pascal to confucianism, but I doubt that will work. Even if it does, it is going to take a lot of hammers (missionaries) and monastries or organized religion.
  
• Or I could wait untill Monte goes after Wang Kon, which may not take much longer. And hope he will have enough on his hands after that.
  
• Or I can try to piss Pascal off so he will declare on me (and avoid 'you declared war on our friend negatives with Monte), maybe even get him to join my side.
  
• Ideally P & M fight eachother. But I just don't see that happening.

Given that I am not much of a warmongerer, any advice is very welcome

o-zoe said:

And of course I had no idea those were the only gems in the game

Click to expand...

Oops.

Though, I'm really not even sure if that's true, because I don't know the whole map yet, either. (I think I know a little bit more NE and SE than you.) I'm just assuming that's the case, since Gems are predominantly in Jungle, and I think I've (You've) seen what appears to be most of the Jungle so far.

... sorry 'bout that.

o-zoe said:

I could try to convert Pascal to confucianism, but I doubt that will work. Even if it does, it is going to take a lot of hammers (missionaries) and monastries or organized religion.

Click to expand...

If you haven't been preparing for this all game, it's unlikely it'll happen. If you have a Golden Age prepped, you could switch to OR and spam a LOT of missionaries during that time.

Unfortunately, you'll have to be the first to convert to Confucianism, which will leave you hated by Pacal and Monty until (if) you can convert one of them. In a worst case scenario, they'll both DoW on you.

o-zoe said:

Or I could wait untill Monte goes after Wang Kon, which may not take much longer. And hope he will have enough on his hands after that.

Click to expand...

Or bribe Monty to go after WK.

o-zoe said:

Or I can try to piss Pascal off so he will declare on me (and avoid 'you declared war on our friend negatives with Monte), maybe even get him to join my side.

Click to expand...

Being at Pleased/Friendly, it'll be pretty hard, since denied demands don't count for -diplo. If they were less-than-Pleased, you could make demands until they hated you real good.

One option is to convert to Confucianism to (hopefully) get Pacal down to Cautious. (Check the numbers 1st to ensure the religious -diplo will be enough.)

Then, you could make all the demands you want to get him to Furious and hope you can convince him to declare war on you.

As soon as he does, convert back to the same religion to get Pleased with Monty again.

If you can wait for or bribe Monty into war before making the religious switch, you'll all but guarantee a 1-on-1 versus Pacal.

IDK, though ... it's a pretty hairy plan with a few loose ends that could come back to haunt you.

--------

NOTES:

Pacal typically won't DoW at Pleased.

Monty is known to DoW at Pleased and is all but guaranteed to DoW at Cautious.

If you attack Monty, Pacal will go down to Pleased and will likely not DoW on you.

If you attack Pacal, Monty will go down to Cautious and will likely be on your doorstep the next turn.

In both cases, if they're already at war, it's unlikely they'll help each other against you until their own war is over.

If Monty is at WHEOOHRN, then there's no need to bribe him into war with anybody ... he's going to do it anyway.

Otherwise, I think once you get Monty to DoW on somebody, you should be able to him and take enough cities to make it hurt.

If you can also get Pacal to DoW on somebody .. even better!

Whatever you do, though, don't sue for peace until you're ready to make permanent peace, because if you attack Monty again later, Pacal will hate you even more!

If by some crazy chance you can Vassalize Monty, the game will be in the bag.

I took Monty out and while I was, Pacal declared on me - but Pacal has almost no military. He sent two swordsmen and a holkan into my territory, and that was at about 400 AD or so. I wouldn't worry about Pacal that much, but I would seriously worry about Monty, especially since he's only 'pleased' with you. I would highly recommend you take him out first, then backfill and crush Pacal.

You're right, that BFC is not right, I apologize. Had Pacal really settled on the rice, I would have razed the city for sure. And I think I agree with you that there is a decided lack of good city sites in my lands. Had I better intelligence of Pacal's lands and cities, I would have razed all but his capital and tried to whip out settlers to push my claims against Monty. That might have opened up a decent city somewhere among the jungle between the city ruins and the first city of his I captured.

For the dots, the orange dot is the spot which I described earlier in the post, the copper/nanners/rice city and I think a city defensive standpoint if/when I war against Monty. The yellow dot is another advance location that I would want to use to make a jump later for the gems and dye, and to claim an early coastal spot from which to launch naval incursions.

My only concern is that Monty will try to settle towards me when obviously it's in my interests to use him as a human shield and settling those two costal cities too early may expose my lands at an inopportune time. I want the Aztecs to do my dying for me.

As for Munich, yes, I believe you're right. Production will be key along with the Maoi city to expand my empire into better lands.

I'm finally #1 in Score, GNP and MFG, but I'm teetering on the edge of suicidal @ #4 in power Just above the Vassals Gandhi and Washington!

The only thing keeping me alive right now is the fact Monty is Pleased with me and involved in a war with his hated enemies and Huayna Capac is Friendly.

As soon as the Aztec-Korean War is over, I have a feeling I might be next in Monty's sights. HK is also Pleased with Monty, so of the two, I'm the easier, juicier target.

The only thing I have going for me with Monty in that department is that I converted him to my 'hidden' religion, Buddhism, by sending him Buddhist Missionaries since the BC's. He converted on his own, so the rest of the world is Hindu. I'll be switching over to Buddhism soon ... and then we'll start a holy war against the world (I hope).

I just started a 30 Turn Golden Age (Great Artist + Taj Mahal), so I'm certain I'll be in a powerful position shortly into the beginning of the round and ready to wage war on HK. If I'm lucky, WK will still be at war with Monty, so I'll get HK all to myself. (/crossFingers)

The highlight of the round to me:


All things considered, this game is already a victory ... the rest of the world just needs to recognize it now.

1000 AD: Montezuma pays 330 Gold for my Aesthetics.
1030 AD: The secrets of Literature were stolen by enemy infiltrators! (It was obviously Monty.)
1060 AD: Thucydides has completed his greatest work, The Largest Civilizations of the World! (I'm #1 ... that's all I need to know.)


1070 AD: A careless apprentice started a fire at the Forge in Berlin, during which the facility was destroyed. (So, how is it that to rush-buy a Forge is like 540 Gold, but to replace it after it burns down is only 62 Gold?)
1070 AD: Heroic Epic started in Berlin. (I have no clue why I waited this long.)
1070 AD: With 5 turns left on Liberalism, I focus all my Espionage on Huayna Capac, since he's most likely to research it first. I'm hoping to hold off on it for Democracy or Scientific Method!
1070 AD: Montezuma's Machinery and World Map traded for my Drama, Music and 5 Gold! (What a DEAL! I love backwards attack dogs.)


1090 AD: A new plow design has become popular. Our Forgs have filled orders for the new plows from farmers across our lands. (Receive between 37 Gold and 75 Gold ... I got 46 Gold.)
1090 AD: Alhazen (Great Scientist) has been born in Munich (OTAKUjbski)! I realized I hadn't built an Academy in Hamburg yet, so that's what he did.
1090 AD: John D. Rockefeller (Great Merchant) has been born in Seoul (Wang Kon)!
1130 AD: Zu Chongzhi (Great Scientist) has been born in Mutal (OTAKUjbski)!
1170 AD: Gandhi trades his Feudalism and Engineering for my Education and 65 Gold.


1170 AD: Berlin begins building Notre Dame. The whole world's had Engineering for centuries, so I didn't think I'd finish this. As it turns out, though, the rest of the world had other priorities. I love this Wonder.
1180 AD: Montezuma's 9 GPT traded for my Rice (1 of 2). This was just a renegotiation.
1190 AD: You have discovered a source of Gold near Berlin! (I'm not one to kick a gift horse in the mouth, but I really wish this could've happened anywhere but in Berlin, b/c it just cost me 1P on that tile!)
1190 AD: Montezuma trades 310 Gold for my (Gandhi's) Engineering!


1240 AD: Huayna Capac has completed the Parthenon [in Cuzco]!
1250 AD: OMFG! I get a peek at New York and see 7 Aztec Galleys and 9 Aztec Triremes. Lollerskates ... you'd think Monty'd be smart enough to leave Washington's one city alone on his little island and move onto somebody more accessible ... silly AI!


1265 AD: Gandhi's Guilds, Compass and World Map traded for my Nationalism. (I'm trying to beat HC to Economics, lol.)


1270 AD: Huayna Capac has completed the University of Sankore [in Cuzco]! (Wait a minute ... didn't he JUST finish a wonder 4 turns ago? I mean ... I know he's Industrious and has Stone, but that's WAY shorter than it should've taken, right?)
1270 AD: Huayna Capac trades his Banking, World Map and 210 Gold for my Nationalism! (What an idiot. He JUST got Banking! Does he NOT realize I can now beat him to Economics!?! Silly AI.)


1270 AD: Montezuma's 290 Gold traded for my (Gandhi's) Compass. (Yay for tech brokering, lol!)


1275 AD: Montezuma converts to Buddhism! (I've been sending him Buddhist Missionaries since the BC's when I captured Mutal. I knew he'd eventually convert on his own once it was the major religion. Now all I have to do is wait for good timing and Convert with him ... then we can go holy war on everybody! muahahahah!)


1275 AD: Dinnertime.
1280 AD: Montezuma trades his 130 Gold for my (Gandhi's) Feudalism.
1285 AD: OTAKUjbski has made peace with Washintong
1285 AD: Washington has made peace with Montezuma!


1285 AD: Washington has capitulated and is now a vassal state of Montezume! (no surprise there, really)
1285 AD: You have pillaged 100 Gold from the capture of Ligurian (Barbarian State)!!! (razed just to keep Ghandi from capturing it ... it's 'behind' my lines.)
1300 AD: Hypatia (Great Scientist) has been born in Mutal (OTAKUjbski)! (settled in Mutal)
1300 AD: Montezuma (and Washington) have declared war on Wang Kon (and Gandhi)!


1300 AD: You have pillaged 73 Gold from the capture of Ainu (Barbarian State)!!! (kept ... it's the Ivory/Rice city just east of Hamburg)
1310 AD: Your researchers have discovered the secrets of Economics!


1315 AD: OTAKUjbski has completed Notre Dame (in Berlin)! (I did? I figured HC would beat me to this. WOOT!)
1315 AD: OTAKUjbski has adopted Caste System! (finally done whipping)
1315 AD: OTAKUjbski has adopted Free Market!
1325 AD: Montezuma trades his 11 GPT for my ... nothing! (I asked, and he said "Always happy to help..." What a great guy! This was a renegotiated Rice trade.)
1325 AD: Huayna Capac trades his 8 GPT for my Sugar (1 of 3). (This was a renegotiated trade.)
1330 AD: Archimedes (Great Engineer) has been born in Cuzco (Huayna Capac)!
1335 AD: Chichen Itza has been built in Cuzco! (He burned a GE on Chichen Pizza? OMFG! Silly AI.)
1345 AD: Aryabhata (Great Scientist) has been born in Lakamha (OTAKUjbski)! (settled in Mutal)
1360 AD: Montezuma's Crab traded for my Rice.
1365 AD: Huayna Capac's Sheep traded for my Incense.
1365 AD: Islam has been founded in a distant land (somewhere in Inca).
1365 AD: I, Washington, ruler of way too many places to mention, do hereby thank my good friend, OTAKUjbski! (After gifting him 4 or 5 backfill techs, I finally get a +4 trade bonus to make Washington Pleased.)


1380 AD: The Apostolic Palace has been built in Cuzco. (The vote is for me or HC to be leader ... I obviously vote for myself.)
1385 AD: Montezuma invites me to join his war against Wang Kon. (No thank you.)
1385 AD: Montezuma's 70 Gold traded for my Guilds. (That's all the help I can give you in your little war, dood.)
1385 AD: Apostolic Palace Election (Winner Proposes Apostolic Palace Resolutions). Leading Candidate: OTAKUjbski (414 Votes - Required 229). (Now, that's a surprise. I won't be winning the game off of this, but it might come in handy since HC can't stop MY war against him soon.)
1405 AD: Lord McCauley has completed his greatest work, The Largest Civilizations of the World! (Im still #1.)
1420 AD: St. Peter (Great Prophet) has been born in Mutal! (Now THAT is an even bigger surprise. I never expected to pop a Great Prophet, so I've been building up Mutal to be Oxford/National Epic. Now all of a sudden, it has a +19 Gold building ... makes me wish I'd've been settling these guys in Hamburg or something now. Oh well.)
1430 AD: Montezuma's 11 GPT traded for my Banana. (This is a renegotiated Rice/free deal.)


1430 AD: Atlanta (Montezuma) has been captured by the Korean Empire!!! (lol)
1445 AD: Wang Kon has proven the world is round! (go him)
1450 AD: Scouts exploring ruins near Mutal have discovered a cache of knowledge. (+538 towards Corporation.) (Amazing how ruins a thousand years old could help us on such a modern technology ... our Corporations must really suck.)
1450 AD: As the resident of the Apostolic Palace, you can choose a Resolution to put forward for a vote. (I knew I wouldn't win it, but I thought it'd be funny to see if I could win an AP victory. The only other option was to stop the war against Wang Kon, and that is NOT something I wanted to try. I wasn't sure if Monty would (or even could) defy it, so it wasn't worth the risk Monty would get bored and turn on me.)
1455 AD: I lost the AP vote. (surprise, surprise)
1455 AD: You have pillaged 59 Gold from the capture of Alemanni (Barbarian State)!!! (razed ... they rebuilt Ligurian)
1460 AD: Zhou (Wang Kon) has been captured by the Aztec Empire!!! (tit for tat)
1475 AD: George Washington Goethals (Great Engineer) has been born in Berlin (OTAKUjbski)! (Holy crap! What crazy luck is THAT? ... just from running 1 Engineer Specialist this whole time ... YAY! I'm not sure if I'm going to burn him on the Statue of Liberty or something else ... who knows?)


1480 AD: Your researchers have discovered the secrets of Liberalism!
1480 AD: Your researchers have discovered the secrets of Democracy! (free tech from Liberalism ... I could've taken Rifling, but I'm in no hurry.)


1480 AD: OTAKUjbski has completed the Mausoleum of Maussollos (in Berlin)!
1480 AD: OTAKUjbski's Golden Age has begun!


1480 AD: OTAKUjbski adopts Representation!

1480 AD: STATE OF THE WORLD:

I am Hindu.

HC is Hindu.

HC built the [Hindu] Apostolic Palace.

I am the Apostolic Palace 'leader'.

If I convert to Buddhism, what happens to the leadership role?

Does it stay with me even though I am no longer a full member?

Does it automatically go up for a revote?

Does it automatically fall on HC?

I need to know because I want to declare war on HC, but I'd rather do it as a Buddhist than a Hindu for diplomatic reasons with Monty.

However, as long as I control the voting, I ensure the war cannot be stopped unless I want it stopped. If leadership falls back on HC, then I need to suck it up and remain Buddhist for the time being.


-- thanks

Only two screen for you.





I think I'll restart from the last autosave!

Sn a side note this stupid event ment that when it went to the victory/defeat screens I saw the whole world map

Still looks interesting. @ rolo this map is crazy! I think I'm going to like it!

I decide to move my scout 2 NE to see if I can improve on the start. I see that I can get 3 resources by settling 2 NE, but I've never moved my initial settler 2 spaces before, and I don't want to be guilty of overthinking. Besides, I won't be able to use the bananas for a while anyway. I don't know if this is smart of me or if it's just a habit left over from previous Civs, but I settle in place at least half the time.

I settle in place here and get rewarded with a rice that I hadn't seen.

I start off with building a worker, like I almost always do. My first tech will be ag to work the rice. I'd like to get to BW fast, but there are at least 2 techs I'll need first: Fishing to work the clams, and The Wheel so my worker doesn't get bored on this map. I'll let my scout check out the area around what might be my 2nd city site to the NE, and I'll take stock once I've got those initial tiles worked.