Cathedrals in ffh?

A

autopsy-turvey

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 17, 2005
Messages
53
Has anyone ever brought up cathedrals for ffh like in regular civ? Larger and more powerful religious buildings you can only build a couple of in proportion to the number of regular temples made vanilla civ more interesting, and they could help out some of the weaker religions in ffh like the council of esus. Maybe they could give religious units +2 exp or be a build requirement for upper tier stuff like paladins, and they could have an armageddon counter effect to make it easier for ashen veil civs to get it up to 100 or good civs to keep it down
 
I agree. Cathedral as a requirement for paladins for sure, as well as any other new added religious units (because we could always use more ;) ).
 
That would be interesting. I've been playing FfH for so long that I had forgotten about the existance of civ 4 cathedrals.

I'm often quite a heavily religious player, and cathedrals would make an awesome addition to any game! :)

Al
 
I think this was basically how Advanced Temples worked a long time ago. Each civ had 2 versions with unique abilities, and you could not build both in the same city.These were removed in version .16, so I've never actually played with them. They sound like a great idea to me, and I'm not sure why they were removed.


I'm planning to reimplement advanced temples in my modmod, similar but not identical to how they were originally. For example, one Order advanced temple will grant the Inquisitor promotion (which will have higher prereqs in my modmod) to all disciple units built there.


copied from my (outdated) Future Additions/Considerations for Later Versions post in my my modmod thread:
Spoiler :


I'm reimplementing advanced temples, largely copying from the old implementation:
The Order:

+Inquisitional Hall (concept: strict)
Removes all religions but the Order from the city
Keeps religions from spreading to the city (not in yet)
Inquisitioners given +4 xp
Paladins created in this city gain the Command promotion
+10% Maintenance

+Enforcement Office (concept: managed)
-50% war weariness
-50% maintenance
-1 maintenance per happy (not in yet)
-1 maintenance per military unti in city (not in yet)
Doubled effect of great commanders recruit ability

The Ashen Veil:

+Demon's altar (concept: demon worship, dark magic)
All units can be sacrificed for research, the higher the level of the unit, the more research is given
Units created here start with a +40% vs disciples promotion
-2 Happy

Forbidden Library (concept: intellegent)
-20% culture, +10% science
Trade routes yeild science instead of gold.
10% chance of providing a Mind mana resource

The Fellowship of Leaves:

+The Golden Wood (concept: open, elegant)
+25% culture
+1 trade routes
+1 great artist
-25% city defense

+The Shadowed Vale (concept: closed, mystical)
Triple the chance of generating Treants
+1 great sage
-1 trade routes
-25% culture

Runes of Kilmorph:

+Hall of Granite (concept: insular, defensive)
+50% defense
-20% Culture
+10% Production
Non Kilmorph religions give -1 happiness each (not in yet)
-1 Trade route
City is more likely to culture flip away from non-Runes civs (not in yet)
Stone gives +3 hammers

+RuneVault (concept: wise, traditional)
Gems give +1 Happy
-10% production
+2 Prophet GP points
+4 Research per Gems
Allows the Rune Guard unit (rooted, 1 per city, defensive)

Octopus Overlords:

+Overseer's Residence (concept: punishing, controlling)
Doubles effects of slaves sacrificed for production (not in)
+1 Research per Orc, Elf, Human or Dwarf pen.
Population sacrificed for production gives double effects (not in)
-10% gold, culture
-1 Happy

+Theater of Dreams (concept: insane)
25% of the units produced in this city are Crazed
Combat 1 promotion for Lunatics
+1 Culture per animal pen
City is more likely to culture flip away from non-OO civs (not in)
Click to expand...

Obviously I wouldn't implement the building with the same name as a current wonder. I think I'll come up with new advanced temples for OO, and will consider changing all the others.

The Empyrean's advanced Temples:

Circles of Charity: (focuses on those who live out their philosophy for the good of all, caring for and education those less fourtunate)
+3 happy, +4 healthy
+10% GPP
-5 trade
+10% maintenance
-10% crime

Agora of Truth: (focus on philosophical discussions of deep matters at the expense of needed action)
-60% military production
+10% war weariness
+1 research per priest in city, +2 per great prophet
+1 culture per sage in city, +2 per great sage


Esus buildings are a little different: they are built by spells in rival cities

Councils of Treason:
has a chance of making the city go into anarchy each turn
the spell has a small chance of accidentally making the caster declare war on the cities owner


Black Market:
+2 trade routes
half of the city's gold is divided between all undercouncil members





I'm open to suggestions about how best to implement these.
 
Nice ideas. :) I guess you'd be able to build some of these buildings per three temples as with normal civ.

Not sure about the AV library bringing in science from trade routes. This seems a bit limiting. Trade routes normally bring in currency (to be split between cash and gold). Limiting trade routes to just science could be a bit harsh. I suppose if you removed that and gave a reduced chance of finding mana, the building would be balanced somewhat?

Al
 
Well, everything within the quotes was the work of the team, not mine. I'm reconsidering all of the bonuses before implementing them.

Besides, I have no idea how to implement research through trade routes (or several other things mentioned there) even if I did want to keep it.

I'm still open to suggestions.
 
I'll have a think on it when I'm less tired :)

They could be standardised a little, providing similar happiness bonuses to cathedrals in original civ? Then you could add a little quirk depending on the religion.

Bit tired now and have work tomorrow, so I'll post something tomorrow :)

Al
 
Yeah the science from trade routes was never implemented, because we couldn't figure out how to do it. I'd say have it give them a great person bonus based on the arm counter. like +x% GPP, where x is the arm counter.
 
Vanilla Civ has several types of superbuildings and even some wonders that you can build only after you have a certain number of some regular building. I'd enjoy having some like this in FFH.
 
charleswatkins said:
Vanilla Civ has several types of superbuildings and even some wonders that you can build only after you have a certain number of some regular building. I'd enjoy having some like this in FFH.
Click to expand...
FFH already has things like that. The most unattainable I know of is the Grand Managerie (a recent addition) which requires that city to first have a cage for every type of animal. That means you need to capture (via subdue animal), return to your capital and construct a place for a lion, a tiger, an elephant, a bear, a wolf and a gorilla. Intense.

Last game I got all but the tiger. Goddamn tigers.
 
That requires all of those buildings in a single City. He means something that you have to have a certain number of buildings throughout your empire (the Cathedrals required 3 temples of that religion in your empire. Thus you could only have a Cathedral in 1/3 of your cities, forcing you to decide carefully where you wanted them)
 
I've only managed to build it twice in around 30-40 games, and always only because of the 'hunter sells his catch' event. Lately I've noticed a distinct lack of wolves, with WAY too many bears. What's up with that?
 
There are buildings in FfH that require a certain number of buildings (Theaters for The Theater of Dreams, Libraries for the Great Library), but they are all wonders so you can only have 1 no matter how many of the prerequisites you build.
 
Pyr0mancer said:
I've only managed to build it twice in around 30-40 games, and always only because of the 'hunter sells his catch' event. Lately I've noticed a distinct lack of wolves, with WAY too many bears. What's up with that?
Click to expand...


I can't see a wolf den in the improvement xml. I think because only certain animals form dens, those animals will be more common.
 
OK here are some suggestions going off the original Cathedral statistics that appear in civ 4, and keeping all similar in balance:-


Great Temple of Dis (AV):
+25% :culture:, +25% :science:
+2 :) with AV state religion
+1 :) from reagents
+1 :science: per trade route
Disciple units built in this city get the "fire resistance" promotion


Vault of Kalimorph (ROK):
+25% :culture:, +25% :gold:
+2 :) with ROK state religion
+1 :) from incense, gems
+3 :gold: per gems, gold and silver

Fae Glen (FOL):
+50% :culture:
+2 :) with FOL state religion
+1 :) from incense
+1 :culture: per forest tile in fat cross
20% chance of providing 1 nature mana (or similar odds)

Sunken Temple (OO):
Must be built in a coastal city
+50% :culture:
+2 :) with OO state religion
+1 :) from incense
+1 :) from fish, clams, crab, whale
5% chance of spawning a krakhen each turn (under control of the civ)


These are just a couple of ideas I had. Do people think these are on the right lines? Obviously you'd need 3 or 4 normal temples per 1 of these nice buildings!

Any thoughts? :)

Al
 
Only thing is though, depending on how early the cathendral for OO gets built, having the Kraken early might unbalance the game. I haven't used the kraken yet, but from xienwolf's manual, it's one of the more powerful water units in the game.

Anyway, it sounds like a good idea otherwise. :)
 
Yeah you are right, a krakhen is a very powerful unit. Maybe that feature could be replaced, or the chance of spawning one lowered?

Although the solution could be to require optics or astronomy in order to build the sunken temple, with the other religious buildings requiring similar advanced techs.

I.e. Sunken temple: Requires theology and optics (as well as the building requirment)

This would ensure that you don't have an advantage circumnavigating the globe early, but you do have a powerful naval unit (which is OK in my books for an OO civ).

Any other ideas guys? :)

Al
 
I like all those 4 cathedrals a lot. They're similar enough to not be unbalancing but the small differences make them useful and interesting. Maybe the unit that spawns randomly in the sunken temple could be a land unit like a freak or a hybrid or a lunatic to represent lovecraftian innsmouth interbreeding between cultists and the fish people.

Thematically I could see the empyrian cathedral giving a modest gp points boost for its unique trait and the order cathedral having something like +2 hammers with the lowered +25 percent culture boost
 
Trade routes can certainly produce base commerce, food and hammers (see Fall Further), but not science/culture by the looks of it. Of course, there's no reason why you couldn't get, say, more hammers from the RoK one.
 
Alzara said:
Spoiler :
OK here are some suggestions going off the original Cathedral statistics that appear in civ 4, and keeping all similar in balance:-


Great Temple of Dis (AV):
+25% :culture:, +25% :science:
+2 :) with AV state religion
+1 :) from reagents
+1 :science: per trade route
Disciple units built in this city get the "fire resistance" promotion


Vault of Kalimorph (ROK):
+25% :culture:, +25% :gold:
+2 :) with ROK state religion
+1 :) from incense, gems
+3 :gold: per gems, gold and silver

Fae Glen (FOL):
+50% :culture:
+2 :) with FOL state religion
+1 :) from incense
+1 :culture: per forest tile in fat cross
20% chance of providing 1 nature mana (or similar odds)

Sunken Temple (OO):
Must be built in a coastal city
+50% :culture:
+2 :) with OO state religion
+1 :) from incense
+1 :) from fish, clams, crab, whale
5% chance of spawning a krakhen each turn (under control of the civ)


These are just a couple of ideas I had. Do people think these are on the right lines? Obviously you'd need 3 or 4 normal temples per 1 of these nice buildings!

Any thoughts? :)

Al
Click to expand...

OO gives most happines, and FoL gives most culture. It should be reversed.
And bonding krakens with OO Catherals could enable moving Tsunami to OO Tier 3 spell and having mutetion as their Tier 2 spell.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

GeneralZIft
Unique + Intrinsic bonuses
2 3 4
Replies
67
Views
2K
BuchiTaton
BuchiTaton
kryat
Borders and True Diplomacy in Civ VII
Replies
1
Views
381
luca 83
luca 83
stealth_nsk
Civ 6 vs. Civ 5 in regards to future 7
4 5 6
Replies
117
Views
5K
Mahi
Mahi
P
Razing cities
Replies
9
Views
872
PiR
PiR
Eyswein
  • Sticky
6otM180 AAR
Replies
8
Views
1K
nufro
nufro
Top Bottom