Úmarth
Megalomaniac
So unlucky! I've never seen an AI win the UHV.
What civs are winnable in Emperor?
- Thread starter AnotherPacifist
- Start date
blizzrd
Micromanager
I once played Rome towards a spaceship only to find that the Incas achieved their UHV before I got all the techs together. I had eliminated or vassalised every colonial Euro, the conqueror event didn't trigger on the Incas and somehow they managed to get the gold condition.
jessiecat
Divine Monarch
Úmarth;6831801 said:
I have once. Same thing too. I was about to win the space race as Turkey (lost the UHV early) when the Aztecs won their UHV. I was amazed as I didn't think the AI could win a UHV.
Rhye
's and Fall creator
this is great to hear. I thought only AI Japan was able to win
blizzrd
Micromanager
I've been trying Japan 3000BC for a bit now with 1.181. The slower tech research is oh so painful. No success yet. Has anyone else?
Found one religion:
Obviously, Great Persons are quite powerful in this mod, because you often have to meet narrow objectives - without regard for how much it sets back your civilization's development.
The first thing I did was to investigate what types of Great Persons could bring me to Theology or Divine Right. Obviously, Great Prophets would be of help, no surprises there. What immediately caught my attention was the addition of Aesthetics for BTS on the Great Artist track. Aesthetics is basically placed before Literature, Drama and Music in the tech-tree, but after Divine Right on the Artist track:
Literature(blocked by Aesthetics)
Drama(blocked by Aesthetics)
Music(blocked by Aesthetics)
Polytheism
Monarchy
Mass Media
Radio
Mysticism
Monotheism
Divine Right
Alphabet (Vanilla & Warlords)
Aesthetics (BTS)
Artists would research Divine Right for me. I estimated I could give birth to 3 Great Persons without much trouble, provided I would have access to Stonehenge or CoL.
Theology and Divine Right is 5600 beakers on Emperor. I was planning on dumping 3 GP's for 1000+ into that, so that left me with research worth 2500 beakers, or 50 beakers/turn. Hard, but doable.
I loaded up the game and checked the wonder screen. Stonehenge in Niwt-Rst. Great, this meant I didn't have to trade for CoL, but I would still very much like Alphabet so I sent the work boat to establish contact with Persian, Babylonia and India.
Founded Aksum in place.
Decided to settle second city at Moyale. Great city site - It's on the coast, so with Harbor, the lake tiles yield 3 food, 2 commerce, pretty nice GP-farm. It also connects you into the trade network in the Indian Ocean.
Now to war. It's very much possible to take Niwt-Rst. Use a combination of worker/city bait and mercenaries to gain an advantageous position and strike. It also helps if you can get your Axe or Sword to 2 xp before the strike. He will have 2 units in Niwt-Rst and one is often an Axe, so I would recommend hiring a Chariot - that really should be enough.
After taking Niwt-Rst, I revolted to Caste System and assigned Artists. Egypt collapsed in turn 120, which left me with 3 towns on Flood Plains.
Possible improvement: I lost a worker baiting, it might be better long-term to buy another mercenary instead. With a bit of luck, I would have captured a couple of workers from Egypt in return.
Work boat arrives, Alphabet not available.
Possible improvement: In some games, with clever trading, you can have Alphabet, and even CoL. I was only able to trade for Alphabet after Theology, which set me back a good deal. On the other hand, I had time to raise units, which meant I didn't have many barb problems.
From here it was a long and bumpy road to Divine Right.
To be continued...
TDK
Obviously, Great Persons are quite powerful in this mod, because you often have to meet narrow objectives - without regard for how much it sets back your civilization's development.
The first thing I did was to investigate what types of Great Persons could bring me to Theology or Divine Right. Obviously, Great Prophets would be of help, no surprises there. What immediately caught my attention was the addition of Aesthetics for BTS on the Great Artist track. Aesthetics is basically placed before Literature, Drama and Music in the tech-tree, but after Divine Right on the Artist track:
Literature(blocked by Aesthetics)
Drama(blocked by Aesthetics)
Music(blocked by Aesthetics)
Polytheism
Monarchy
Mass Media
Radio
Mysticism
Monotheism
Divine Right
Alphabet (Vanilla & Warlords)
Aesthetics (BTS)
Artists would research Divine Right for me. I estimated I could give birth to 3 Great Persons without much trouble, provided I would have access to Stonehenge or CoL.
Theology and Divine Right is 5600 beakers on Emperor. I was planning on dumping 3 GP's for 1000+ into that, so that left me with research worth 2500 beakers, or 50 beakers/turn. Hard, but doable.
I loaded up the game and checked the wonder screen. Stonehenge in Niwt-Rst. Great, this meant I didn't have to trade for CoL, but I would still very much like Alphabet so I sent the work boat to establish contact with Persian, Babylonia and India.
Founded Aksum in place.
Decided to settle second city at Moyale. Great city site - It's on the coast, so with Harbor, the lake tiles yield 3 food, 2 commerce, pretty nice GP-farm. It also connects you into the trade network in the Indian Ocean.
Now to war. It's very much possible to take Niwt-Rst. Use a combination of worker/city bait and mercenaries to gain an advantageous position and strike. It also helps if you can get your Axe or Sword to 2 xp before the strike. He will have 2 units in Niwt-Rst and one is often an Axe, so I would recommend hiring a Chariot - that really should be enough.
After taking Niwt-Rst, I revolted to Caste System and assigned Artists. Egypt collapsed in turn 120, which left me with 3 towns on Flood Plains.
Possible improvement: I lost a worker baiting, it might be better long-term to buy another mercenary instead. With a bit of luck, I would have captured a couple of workers from Egypt in return.
Work boat arrives, Alphabet not available.
Possible improvement: In some games, with clever trading, you can have Alphabet, and even CoL. I was only able to trade for Alphabet after Theology, which set me back a good deal. On the other hand, I had time to raise units, which meant I didn't have many barb problems.
From here it was a long and bumpy road to Divine Right.
To be continued...
TDK
blizzrd
Micromanager
Finally did Egypt on Emperor. I'm not going to try that again though. On my 19th attempt I got the UHV.
You have to rely on luck at so many stages:
- Getting enough money from goody huts at the start
- Nobody else building the Pyramids/Stonehenge before you do (although I was only beaten for Pyramids, never Stonehenge)
- Getting a Great Engineer
- Then getting a Great Artist
- Not losing the Great Lighthouse or Great Library (usually) to Greece (this is the one that I found the most difficult to avoid)
Just not a fun experience overall on Emperor. When I eventually got through to the Great Library, it was largely because Greece had early on been hit with a Hurricane and then had been attacked by a horde of Barbarian swordsmen. Without this, I think Greece will invariably build either Great Lighthouse or Great Library before you can.
You have to rely on luck at so many stages:
- Getting enough money from goody huts at the start
- Nobody else building the Pyramids/Stonehenge before you do (although I was only beaten for Pyramids, never Stonehenge)
- Getting a Great Engineer
- Then getting a Great Artist
- Not losing the Great Lighthouse or Great Library (usually) to Greece (this is the one that I found the most difficult to avoid)
Just not a fun experience overall on Emperor. When I eventually got through to the Great Library, it was largely because Greece had early on been hit with a Hurricane and then had been attacked by a horde of Barbarian swordsmen. Without this, I think Greece will invariably build either Great Lighthouse or Great Library before you can.
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
If anything with this patch it's even harder (science costs more), although Rhye did say that Emperor AI research cost has been increased. It's like you being a tortoise, and trying to outrun a hare (1.181) instead of a leopard (1.18).
blizzrd
Micromanager
Well I think Rhye didn't have to do that.
Greece appears to currently be impossible on Emperor for this reason. India builds the Oracle every time at about the point after I have researched Masonry and Priesthood.
Short of starting as India and screwing their historical situation, I cannot see how the Greek UHV can currently be achieved on Emperor (v1.181).
wr4th
Warlord
Well I think Rhye didn't have to do that.
Greece appears to currently be impossible on Emperor for this reason. India builds the Oracle every time at about the point after I have researched Masonry and Priesthood.
Short of starting as India and screwing their historical situation, I cannot see how the Greek UHV can currently be achieved on Emperor (v1.181).
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6808696&postcount=94
blizzrd
Micromanager
I take it all back. Following wr4th's Indian holiday suggestion, I finished the Greek UHV on Emperor last night and just updated the wiki:
http://wikirhye.wikidot.com/rfc-greek-strategy
http://wikirhye.wikidot.com/rfc-greek-strategy
blizzrd
Micromanager
Wow, it would be awesome to get gems or infact any mined happiness resource (gold, silver, gems) as Greece. With forges, that represents +2 happiness in every one of your cities and a bunch of commerce in the capital. Before Monarchy, you can't actually grow to larger than 4 population due to the unhappiness on Emperor.
blizzrd
Micromanager
Vikings is missing from this list.
I believe that a number of these victories were prior to the shift of the Church of the Nativity away from Rome, is this correct?
If so, what is the correctly updated version of this list for the current (1.181) patch?
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
Vikings was one of the later ones I did (after following usi's lead in the capture-Rome/Cuzco deal), and it's obviously much harder after the lack of Church of Nativity and Rome being much stronger, and penalty for occupying Rome even if it's possible to capture it. (See why Rhye called it the anti-Pacifist patch?)
The only possible solution now is to squat England and hope for the best with discovering optics first.
There's a Chinese guy who's writing a wiki on the 3000 BC Chinese emperor strategy, but he hasn't told us how to get Music yet in time.
And Ethiopia is now possible apparently from TDK's experience.
So no, somebody needs to update the list.
blizzrd
Micromanager
I finished Vikings today without Rome/Church of Nativity.
Started from 600AD. Don't found any cities until you capture Inverness and it becomes your capital (rush straight for it though with the starting axemen). My empire eventually was Inverness, Dublin, Husarvik, Oslo, Uppsala, Lulea, Kalmar and Helsinki (I renamed this one - can't recall what the default was).
No major wars required. Vassalized Aztec and then Inca. Aztecs took two rounds, initially capturing Technochitlan and then a cease fire agreement whilst healing some units. Then reload and attack again to get capitulation. The Aztec capital builds a settler immediately, rushed with slavery.
Getting the gold was a close call. Once I researched Optics, I had 0% science and all my cities building wealth and only just managed to get to 5000 in time (I think I had two turns to spare). Lighthouses, markets and grocers were important. One Great Merchant went to Amsterdam for 1300 gold also in there somewhere.
After 1500, I bought/traded for Engineering, Astronomy and Gunpowder, then researched Military Science on my own during the Golden Age. I got the sink boats condition in 1625. Privateers rock!
I managed to complete both the Harbourmaster and Holy Mountain quests along the way in this game. The Harbourmaster quest I used to give +1 gold to all my harbours which was nice but only happened after 1500. The Holy Mountain quest required settlement of New Zealand, which after I got the +1 happiness I liberated to Netherlands. This actually caused them to come out from under Spain's vassalage, but again didn't really change much in the overall picture.
Started from 600AD. Don't found any cities until you capture Inverness and it becomes your capital (rush straight for it though with the starting axemen). My empire eventually was Inverness, Dublin, Husarvik, Oslo, Uppsala, Lulea, Kalmar and Helsinki (I renamed this one - can't recall what the default was).
No major wars required. Vassalized Aztec and then Inca. Aztecs took two rounds, initially capturing Technochitlan and then a cease fire agreement whilst healing some units. Then reload and attack again to get capitulation. The Aztec capital builds a settler immediately, rushed with slavery.
Getting the gold was a close call. Once I researched Optics, I had 0% science and all my cities building wealth and only just managed to get to 5000 in time (I think I had two turns to spare). Lighthouses, markets and grocers were important. One Great Merchant went to Amsterdam for 1300 gold also in there somewhere.
After 1500, I bought/traded for Engineering, Astronomy and Gunpowder, then researched Military Science on my own during the Golden Age. I got the sink boats condition in 1625. Privateers rock!
I managed to complete both the Harbourmaster and Holy Mountain quests along the way in this game. The Harbourmaster quest I used to give +1 gold to all my harbours which was nice but only happened after 1500. The Holy Mountain quest required settlement of New Zealand, which after I got the +1 happiness I liberated to Netherlands. This actually caused them to come out from under Spain's vassalage, but again didn't really change much in the overall picture.
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
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- Messages
- 4,878
Good job blizzrd, may I say that we have another masochist here. Try Persia next. 
Add the Americans to the possible list. I did this without any world builder or starting as another civilization. Here's how my game went:
France had Jacksonville, New Orleans, Port Royal and Quebec. England had Newfoundland, York Factory, and New York. Japan had conquered all of the Aztec lands, and controlled all of Central America. Spain had 2 Caribbean colonies. The Portuguese already had Democracy, but no one else did.
I started off by flipping New York from the English and Jacksonville from the French, which resulted in 2 declarations of war and a massive starting army. I immediatley adopted Representation, Free Market, Free Religion and Free speech. These were chosen primarily for the research bonus from these civics.
I managed to trade for Democracy from the Portuguese about 5 turns in also, so I started building the Statue of Liberty ASAP in Washington. I chopped wood and used an engineer to build the statue quickly. My settlers moved west, founding Chicago, Regina, Denver, and San Francisco. I took New Orleans, York Factory and Port Royal, and sued for peace from England and France. My cities focused on building tech buildings, libraries, observatories and universities.
Technologies: Get Democracy, Assembly Line, and then Mass Media, and all the required prerequisites as fast as possible. After that you should gun straight for computers to get the Internet.
Around 1830 Spain declared war on me, and I took their Caribbean colonies. In 1874 France built the Pentagon (in the same turn that I had built it). So I had to go back a few turns and micromanage to get it out in the turn before. I had no problems getting the UN built in time.
In 1880 I declared war on France and England to take control of their last American colonies. This was difficult given that cannons don't do well against infantry, but you should have infantry yourself by then, so its just a matter of throwing enough troops at the remaining colonies. Immediately in 1902 I handed back the crummy cities I didn't want to keep my economy in good shape.
After this, its just a matter of collecting Oil. There is a ton of it in the Middle East. The internet will get you on equal footing technology wise, and your cities will be wonderfully productive, so you should have no problems building an army to invade Mesopotamia and the Arabian peninsula (whoever does hold them). In my game I got to vassalize a respawned greece, (which put me at war with a respawned Aztec, who I forced into capitulation to claim their oil in Gulf of Mexico). This gave me a great base of operations for my mid-East action.
Some notes:
Denver is wonderfully productive. With ironworks, it will get you 300+ hammers a turn.
Golden ages: I had 3. I used 1 to get Assembly line in time, and another on the tech push to computers. You will of course get another one after you get the first 2 goals completed too.
Engineers: You will get a plethora of great engineers without trying. Early on they are very helpful in rushing your required wonders, and starting golden ages. Be careful to produce a few other great people so you can get some golden ages.
Defensive pacts: Choose these carefully. Know who you will end up going to war with to clean out N. America, and to claim your oil resources.
Peculiarities of my game: In the end, France, Germany, Russia, Spain, and the Netherlands collapsed. None of them collapsed early enough to matter. Arabia collapsed around 1800 and respawned in the 1920s. I took their oil resources to win, but also had to take out the Mongols (who had a full modern army) because they had a lot of cultural presence throughout Iran and Iraq. In the end, they ceded enough cities after I nuked them so I could get enough oil in my borders.
France had Jacksonville, New Orleans, Port Royal and Quebec. England had Newfoundland, York Factory, and New York. Japan had conquered all of the Aztec lands, and controlled all of Central America. Spain had 2 Caribbean colonies. The Portuguese already had Democracy, but no one else did.
I started off by flipping New York from the English and Jacksonville from the French, which resulted in 2 declarations of war and a massive starting army. I immediatley adopted Representation, Free Market, Free Religion and Free speech. These were chosen primarily for the research bonus from these civics.
I managed to trade for Democracy from the Portuguese about 5 turns in also, so I started building the Statue of Liberty ASAP in Washington. I chopped wood and used an engineer to build the statue quickly. My settlers moved west, founding Chicago, Regina, Denver, and San Francisco. I took New Orleans, York Factory and Port Royal, and sued for peace from England and France. My cities focused on building tech buildings, libraries, observatories and universities.
Technologies: Get Democracy, Assembly Line, and then Mass Media, and all the required prerequisites as fast as possible. After that you should gun straight for computers to get the Internet.
Around 1830 Spain declared war on me, and I took their Caribbean colonies. In 1874 France built the Pentagon (in the same turn that I had built it). So I had to go back a few turns and micromanage to get it out in the turn before. I had no problems getting the UN built in time.
In 1880 I declared war on France and England to take control of their last American colonies. This was difficult given that cannons don't do well against infantry, but you should have infantry yourself by then, so its just a matter of throwing enough troops at the remaining colonies. Immediately in 1902 I handed back the crummy cities I didn't want to keep my economy in good shape.
After this, its just a matter of collecting Oil. There is a ton of it in the Middle East. The internet will get you on equal footing technology wise, and your cities will be wonderfully productive, so you should have no problems building an army to invade Mesopotamia and the Arabian peninsula (whoever does hold them). In my game I got to vassalize a respawned greece, (which put me at war with a respawned Aztec, who I forced into capitulation to claim their oil in Gulf of Mexico). This gave me a great base of operations for my mid-East action.
Some notes:
Denver is wonderfully productive. With ironworks, it will get you 300+ hammers a turn.
Golden ages: I had 3. I used 1 to get Assembly line in time, and another on the tech push to computers. You will of course get another one after you get the first 2 goals completed too.
Engineers: You will get a plethora of great engineers without trying. Early on they are very helpful in rushing your required wonders, and starting golden ages. Be careful to produce a few other great people so you can get some golden ages.
Defensive pacts: Choose these carefully. Know who you will end up going to war with to clean out N. America, and to claim your oil resources.
Peculiarities of my game: In the end, France, Germany, Russia, Spain, and the Netherlands collapsed. None of them collapsed early enough to matter. Arabia collapsed around 1800 and respawned in the 1920s. I took their oil resources to win, but also had to take out the Mongols (who had a full modern army) because they had a lot of cultural presence throughout Iran and Iraq. In the end, they ceded enough cities after I nuked them so I could get enough oil in my borders.
blizzrd
Micromanager
Good job blizzrd, may I say that we have another masochist here. Try Persia next.
I'm on Spain just at the moment. Got to around mid-1500s last night. England just got to Astronomy, so I need to launch the Spanish Armada (I have a fleet loaded with Cannons and Conquistadors) at London to make them collapse. Germany obligingly obliterated the Dutch already and I have France landlocked at Paris, so no French colonists are likely to set sail anytime soon.
Interestingly, my stability was Shaky for ages until I gained control of the Aztec and Incan capitals after the unrest period. Then it went to Solid (briefly) before settling on Stable. This all happened before I changed expansion civics too.
blizzrd
Micromanager
Spain is really quite easy still on Emperor, well compared to some of the others at least.
I was pretty happy with Isabella's Empire in 1760.
As long as you whip a settler from one of the conquered Aztec/Inca cities, none of the UHV conditions are particularly taxing.
France can be hobbled early and I found that if you make friends with Germany at the outset by gifting them Sailing they will usually attack (and crush) the Dutch sooner or later. Which only leaves England to be dealt with. I assembled an armada of galleons and loaded it with about 12 Conquistadors and 12 cannons/catapults (very expensive to upgrade catapults!) before declaring war and invading London. The English didn't stand a chance, although they still did sneak out a colony in Canada which had to be razed.
I was pretty happy with Isabella's Empire in 1760.
As long as you whip a settler from one of the conquered Aztec/Inca cities, none of the UHV conditions are particularly taxing.
France can be hobbled early and I found that if you make friends with Germany at the outset by gifting them Sailing they will usually attack (and crush) the Dutch sooner or later. Which only leaves England to be dealt with. I assembled an armada of galleons and loaded it with about 12 Conquistadors and 12 cannons/catapults (very expensive to upgrade catapults!) before declaring war and invading London. The English didn't stand a chance, although they still did sneak out a colony in Canada which had to be razed.
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