schwartz
King
Writing this from my "report" computer (aka, my MacBook) so no save, atm (EDIT: Added now. Sorry for the lack of screens, for some reason none of them took.)
Spoiler :
Monarchist Cookbook Game 3, Hammurabi of Babylon!
- Thread starter Bleys
- Start date
I finished a turn early, as there are a couple of decisions to make. It'll take me a while to do the report, but here's some screenies and the save:
Spoiler :
schwartz
King
@WH:
Spoiler :
@schwartz
Spoiler :
Bleys
Deity
Nice looking round Winston, I think you got me beat by a long shot.
ranion
Chieftain
good job Winston, can't wait to see the detailed report.
Here it is:
Spoiler :
r_rolo1
King of myself
Another one for discussion.....
Spoiler :
futurehermit
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
- 5,724
Hey everyone, I will be boxing my computer up in the morning and won't be unpacked until at least Thurs (I am moving Wed), so count me out for this round, but back in for the next one! 
@ranion:
Bad luck on missing the GLh. I completed it the turn after you missed it, and rolo seems to have built it even later. Still, it's a lesson learned, I think - if it's that important, and if there's any doubt whether you'll get it in time, then break out the whip.
Edit: btw, I can't see a save...
@PickledDictator
Don't be embarrassed to have a go at playing and posting a turnset. When I was a struggling on Monarch I joined in on a couple of games that some Immortal and Deity players had started. I totally got my arse handed to me (both by the AI and the other players), but I learnt a hell of a lot from playing along with those guys.
Bad luck on missing the GLh. I completed it the turn after you missed it, and rolo seems to have built it even later. Still, it's a lesson learned, I think - if it's that important, and if there's any doubt whether you'll get it in time, then break out the whip.
Edit: btw, I can't see a save...
@PickledDictator
Don't be embarrassed to have a go at playing and posting a turnset. When I was a struggling on Monarch I joined in on a couple of games that some Immortal and Deity players had started. I totally got my arse handed to me (both by the AI and the other players), but I learnt a hell of a lot from playing along with those guys.
PickledDictator
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2008
- Messages
- 117
Thanks to all for the encouragement!!! This has been a joy to read. A couple of questions and statements regarding your choices Winston Hughes.
Your move up to Tokugawa was a classic, perhaps a smidgen of luck there, I can only think of the cursing that would have been involved had you missed the city site and in turn, missed the GLH because of it
You kept the barb city, which was smart, and they actually built it in a decent location (probably why you kept it, but why did you back fill with Borsipa? Is it only to keep the cities connected by a continuous cultural barrier? After all, there are NO resources there or was there more strategy to it? I suppose anyone can answer these not so simple questions for me.
also, just north of the capital, you have TWO cities which are very close together, Akkad and Dur-K. Why was Dur-K settled when Akkad could handle all the resources in the area already? Seems to me those two cities are awfully tightly packed? Is this to only save on corruption costs?
Another question, sorry! You state that taking another city would cost us demerits with the Buddhists if we chose to attack again. Could you explain why?
Thanks to all for the answers and keep it up, loving this game.
Your move up to Tokugawa was a classic, perhaps a smidgen of luck there, I can only think of the cursing that would have been involved had you missed the city site and in turn, missed the GLH because of it
You kept the barb city, which was smart, and they actually built it in a decent location (probably why you kept it, but why did you back fill with Borsipa? Is it only to keep the cities connected by a continuous cultural barrier? After all, there are NO resources there or was there more strategy to it? I suppose anyone can answer these not so simple questions for me.
also, just north of the capital, you have TWO cities which are very close together, Akkad and Dur-K. Why was Dur-K settled when Akkad could handle all the resources in the area already? Seems to me those two cities are awfully tightly packed? Is this to only save on corruption costs?
Another question, sorry! You state that taking another city would cost us demerits with the Buddhists if we chose to attack again. Could you explain why?
Thanks to all for the answers and keep it up, loving this game.
A big pile of luck, and an even bigger pile of incredibly careful micromanagement.Borsippa has two food resources and a load of hills, making it a decent military production city. It also overlaps with Burgandian, meaning it can help to grow cottages for the latter, which will make a strong science/gold city in the long-term (with heavy use of the whip in the meantime).
Maintenance wasn't a major consideration, although settling Dur-K down there, instead of up by the gems, probably saved me a bit of gold early on.
The main reason I chose that particular spot is that it gave me access to hills and irrigable grassland, making it a powerful production city in both the short and long term.
That it also allowed me to connect the Elephants quicker, and saved me building a Monument in Akkad (thus letting me get another worker out a bit earlier), was a nice bonus.
I was also able to switch tiles between the two cities as each was whipped, or waited for whip
to fade, saving on worker turns and maximising my use of the food-positive tiles.Akkad has been left looking a bit weak for the future, but it'll still have enough food to make a valuable contribution.
Thanks to their shared religion, HC and Kublai are Pleased with Toku, meaning I got a -1 modifier with each of them when I declared on him the first time.
Unless their attitudes towards him deteriorate in the meantime, the next DoW against Toku will have the same effect.
That was extremely well done Winston. I thought I did a fair amount of whipping, but I guess a lot of it was for buildings. A couple of questions regarding the whipping on your turnset:
1. Did you always/almost always try to two pop whip for the overflow hammers?
2. Did you usually whip right near the finish of barracks/lighthouses to get the max overflow on double hammers?
A lot of different ways to potentially go if this is the save for the next set. There are definitely some positives in the other saves, but this has to be the one to beat so far.
Edit: Just thought of one more question. Can you kind of generally describe the mm you were doing? I see where you talk about sharing tiles between Akkad and Dur-K. Can you give an example of how you did this to such a significant advantage (there or any other city)?
Thanks!
1. Did you always/almost always try to two pop whip for the overflow hammers?
2. Did you usually whip right near the finish of barracks/lighthouses to get the max overflow on double hammers?
A lot of different ways to potentially go if this is the save for the next set. There are definitely some positives in the other saves, but this has to be the one to beat so far.
Edit: Just thought of one more question. Can you kind of generally describe the mm you were doing? I see where you talk about sharing tiles between Akkad and Dur-K. Can you give an example of how you did this to such a significant advantage (there or any other city)?
Thanks!
ranion
Chieftain
@ranion:
Bad luck on missing the GLh. I completed it the turn after you missed it, and rolo seems to have built it even later. Still, it's a lesson learned, I think - if it's that important, and if there's any doubt whether you'll get it in time, then break out the whip.
Edit: btw, I can't see a save...
yeah, i didn't break out the whip mainly because up until the turn i lost it i figured i had it. normally it goes 'pretty late' because it takes a while to build, and i thought i had caught it up a bit with my chops and tile micro but i was obviously out a bit. the fact also that you got it the turn after i would have, and rolo got it even later than that.... well just goes to show that the rng was not with me this round. losing it really threw my plans off, and in checking how much i missed it by i screwed up my tech path a bit. ah well whats done is done, and it wont effect anything in the long run because we'll be running with a different save. the beauty of this game style, right?
also: for what its worth i edited my save onto my report post just to mess with your head a bit...
Bleys
Deity
I will offer my answers to these.
Personally, I like whipping INTO the double production buildings, for example, I build a Granary, and have 3 hammers left to finish it, so I 1-pop whip, and the remaining 42 hammers get doubled if the next building is a doubler. I find it easier to micro-manage the build before a double than the actual doubler building itself.
The value of a 2-pop whip over a 1-pop whip isnt in the overflow hammers, they are basically the same either way (well, in most cases, there are some funky situations). Its primary value is in the unhappiness-to-population ratio. 1-pop whip at the cap, about to go over, and you are right back where you started, about to go over the cap, but with 1 less population because of the unhappiness. 2-pop whipping costs the same as a 1-pop as far as the unhappiness, but you get a sort of "extra" pop you can grow right back from it. Not sure that makes perfect sense, but if you think about it, you should see what I mean. Theres more to it, check out vales article about whipping if you really want some cool insights, but thats the basic difference, the fact that multi-pop whips cost the same amount of unhappiness as a 1-pop whip.
They fixed this exploit, so now, there is a calculation done to reduce the hammers back to what they normally would be for the next build. For example, you have a LH with 80 hammers in it, and whip for 1, you get 90 hammers for the ORG leader, so 10 of those are used to finish off the LH, but the other 80 are reduced to their "actual" 40 if the next build isnt a double-production building.
Personally, I like whipping INTO the double production buildings, for example, I build a Granary, and have 3 hammers left to finish it, so I 1-pop whip, and the remaining 42 hammers get doubled if the next building is a doubler. I find it easier to micro-manage the build before a double than the actual doubler building itself.
PickledDictator
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2008
- Messages
- 117
Winston interesting choices and info on the multiple cities working each others BFC tiles. While it makes perfect sense now, I just assumed that until you had popped your BFC in both cities, tiles outside of the first ring were off limits. Amazing the things you learn about this game! Avoiding the early monument is a huge time saver, thanks for pointing that out.
As far as Borispa is concerned, I thought from most of the strategy articles I have perused here that if specials were not in the making that one should skip those sites, especially in the early game (1-5 cities). Evidently I was wrong. Now I have a better idea of how to set up "other potential production cities". Most guides tell you to use the first city with metals/horses as your early production city and I tended to follow that. These city placements indicate a playing the cards you are dealt hand. This may be one of the reasons I struggle on this level because I don't have enough military.
I misinterpreted the demerit point system. I understood it as taking just one more city and taking the hit. I didn't realize that you meant DOW again at a later time. That part I already knew. Thanks though.
Bleys, Thanks for explaining the hammer overflow 2pop vs 1pop. I too have read these guides, but didn't fully understand it. Especially the part about double value buildings. Now I do!!!!!
And finally one question, was the WW that bad? Why even bother to leave the Greeks in the game. I understand healing is required, but isn't it better to push the advantage and wipe him off OUR land??? Ooops, how can it be our land, I am not even playing, but you know what I mean
If I were to tackle this game just for giggles, since I know a lot of what has happened, I assume to post, I should pick up at this point, or after this round?
I finally found BUG MOD after a futile attempt.
Ok, bit of a noob, i have no idea how to quote
perhaps a link somewhere or quick explanation is in order on that then I can look semi pro.
As far as Borispa is concerned, I thought from most of the strategy articles I have perused here that if specials were not in the making that one should skip those sites, especially in the early game (1-5 cities). Evidently I was wrong. Now I have a better idea of how to set up "other potential production cities". Most guides tell you to use the first city with metals/horses as your early production city and I tended to follow that. These city placements indicate a playing the cards you are dealt hand. This may be one of the reasons I struggle on this level because I don't have enough military.
I misinterpreted the demerit point system. I understood it as taking just one more city and taking the hit. I didn't realize that you meant DOW again at a later time. That part I already knew. Thanks though.
Bleys, Thanks for explaining the hammer overflow 2pop vs 1pop. I too have read these guides, but didn't fully understand it. Especially the part about double value buildings. Now I do!!!!!
And finally one question, was the WW that bad? Why even bother to leave the Greeks in the game. I understand healing is required, but isn't it better to push the advantage and wipe him off OUR land??? Ooops, how can it be our land, I am not even playing, but you know what I mean
If I were to tackle this game just for giggles, since I know a lot of what has happened, I assume to post, I should pick up at this point, or after this round?
I finally found BUG MOD after a futile attempt.
Ok, bit of a noob, i have no idea how to quote
perhaps a link somewhere or quick explanation is in order on that then I can look semi pro.
Bleys
Deity
Thats a good general guideline, but the key here is the GLH. The city is coastal, so it gets 2 free trade routes, which makes it nearly "break even" on maintenance out of the box, before a single hammer is even spent there. The GLH is one of the best wonders in the game, especially if your looking at a lot of coastal areas to settle, because it funds your expansion for you. Having an ORG leader with the GLH is even bigger, since the cheap courthouses are ideal for making the maintenance drop and with the extra TRs, cities can start turning a profit very quickly. Currency and Compass are also nice techs, for the trade routes and buildings they open up.
Without the GLH, grabbing less-optimal city sites can be very damaging to your economy, so you need to avoid those under-powered cities until you can afford them. In this case, we can basically look at any coastal city and if it has some food, its worth settling as soon as you can. With FIN civs, its almost hard to crash your economy at Monarch if you can settle enough coastal cities. Cant build settlers fast enough, heh.
[PickledDictator said:
This should help a bit. Also, in the bottom right corner of everybody's post, is a quote button.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/misc.php?do=bbcode
Getting the GLH was definitely a key moment for WH and Rolo. Nice work! Not sure how you guys got it so late... but Hey!
Spoiler :
ranion
Chieftain
part of me wonders what the hell HC was doing in your games that he wasn't in mine (or vice versa) that let you guys get the GLH, especially rolo, you finished yours in 470BC, I lost mine just after 600BC. he must have thrown another settler on the queue or something at some point. vexes me, I wonder how it would have effected my tech choices and expansion ideas. I only ever go into a round with a vague idea of where I want to go rather than a concrete plan, even in offline games i sorta wing it and make it up as I go along based on what I'm given. what about you guys, how much of a plan do you make before a round, and how much room do you leave for things as they come up?
PickledDictator
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2008
- Messages
- 117
Bleys said:
Would it be safe to say then, that playing Gilgamesh with his early and cheap courthouses and the GLH on a water start means REX (as long as civs are not close enough for a rush)?
Nuts no color when I quote. Thanks for the link Muuu, saved it to play with it on a rainy day. But I don't to waste everyone's time, so I do have another question?
Why did you not settle or send the GM on a trade mission, rather you used him to bulb. Wouldn't the money have come in handy to run deficit research? Seems to me the trade off would be better in the long run
Similar threads
