BOTM 09 Pregame Discussion

There is Gems so you can do a 3rd city without much problem.

Research will inevitably fall to around 50% on immortal. You have to make sure you get either cottages or libraries before or right when that happens, so you can then start building up your commerce and make it to monarchy or alphabet in a reasonable amount of time.
 
I was a little spread out, 3rd city was captured from barbs, i was random start, had no happy resources, so stuck at size 4-5, only able to run 1-3 cottages total while pop rushing and managing to fall seriously behind the AI in techs.:sad:
 
Keeping the economy going shouldn't be that difficult with gems and this many riverside tiles.

Epic speed is a bummer but I'm looking forward to this (and the next) BOTM anyway--thanks for hosting these games.
 
I was a little spread out, 3rd city was captured from barbs, i was random start, had no happy resources, so stuck at size 4-5, only able to run 1-3 cottages total while pop rushing and managing to fall seriously behind the AI in techs.:sad:

You need to trade techs to stay up with the AIs. Immortal is hard at first. Some of the best techs to aim for are Monarchy (the AI holds it off awhile), Alphabet (you can trade with everyone then, but the AI goes for it quick).
Aesthetics is a good tech to go for, because the AI doesn't research it for awhile.

However, it is rare that you will get 1 for 1 trades with the AI. Like, Monarchy and Alphabet are both about 480, but they won't trade you. What you have to do is research Alphabet a couple turns, so then you are trading 480 beakers for around 400 beakers, and they'll accept it.
 
Indeed, researching one or two turns into the tech you want to trade helps a lot!

I was always like: I'm researching it now, so it would be a waste to trade, but the research you have done gives a discount when trading for the tech!
 
I was always like: I'm researching it now, so it would be a waste to trade, but the research you have done gives a discount when trading for the tech!
However, it is a linear discount; i.e., you do not make the tech progressively cheaper.
 
Since I'm a virgin on Immortal, I'll go with the adventurer save. I think settling in place is a good start with the added hammer right away, and my worker can mine the gem on turn 1, then farm the dye unless something better to do appears in the meantime.

I plan to build units to fogbust till size 3, then a settler to build a city by the food / stone. 2nd city will start with worker.
Research path : BW, then archery if no copper around, wheel, mysti, AH depending on what I see by now, masonry..

I hope I can finally submit an entry in a BOTM, my last tries were aborted because I wasn't happy with the result..
 
another tip... the more civs you know that have researched a tech, the lower your cost is. This can be more important on immortal since you may research from behind, and costs are higher.
 
In my test game (settle in place), I settle St Petersburg on the stone 2925 BC, GW in Capital 2700 BC, and Stonehenge not long after in St Petersburg. Barbs show up 2600 BC, but they founded their first city 2350 BC :eek:

Worker first, then settler. Mining, BW, Masonry, Mysticism.

It may get crowded, so it may be suitable to chop settlers. Perhaps it's better to grab land and skip the idea of one worker for each city :confused:

EDIT: Next settler is built 2050 BC, no chops.
 
"It may get crowded, so it may be suitable to chop settlers. Perhaps it's better to grab land and skip the idea of one worker for each city"

Cities are too expensive on Immortal to build them without a worker to support. If they are just dead weight your economy will collapse quickly.

Also, if you skip on the workers you lose out on a lot of hammers, even if your settlers get out just a little bit quicker.
 
If you're in a tight corner, it might be worth hampering growth to grab land - that was the (very valid) point.
 
In my test game (settle in place), I settle St Petersburg on the stone 2925 BC, GW in Capital 2700 BC, and Stonehenge not long after in St Petersburg. Barbs show up 2600 BC, but they founded their first city 2350 BC :eek:

Worker first, then settler. Mining, BW, Masonry, Mysticism.

It may get crowded, so it may be suitable to chop settlers. Perhaps it's better to grab land and skip the idea of one worker for each city :confused:

EDIT: Next settler is built 2050 BC, no chops.

Good point. Hopefully both sides are not crowded. It appear we are close to the northeast corner of the map. Usually that area has a whole lot of room to grow. But if the situation is dire, and it can be if the barbs are founding cities so early, claiming land is better than workers. After the building warrior(s) untill grawing to 2 or 3, each city can build a worker and a settler while it make sense to do so.

I am more concerned about barb axes if there are no horses nearby.
 
Good point. Hopefully both sides are not crowded. It appear we are close to the northeast corner of the map. Usually that area has a whole lot of room to grow. But if the situation is dire, and it can be if the barbs are founding cities so early, claiming land is better than workers. After the building warrior(s) untill grawing to 2 or 3, each city can build a worker and a settler while it make sense to do so.

I am more concerned about barb axes if there are no horses nearby.

I was thinking of something much more aggressive :mischief: Such as capital building worker, settler, GW, settler while at size 1, and stone city building warrior, SH at pop1, then warrior to pop2, and then settler, worker, worker, worker.

This would give med four cities soon after 2000 BC. Economy will crash, but I can then cottage the capital to recover. Capital pop-cap will be size 6, so capital will become a monster commerce site.

Early game focus will be quick expansion, running cottages to finance more cities. City #3 will probably break even, while city #4 will be a drag. With four cities, there is room to chop the pyramids without hampering the growth of the empire. I doubt that building the pyramids with only two cities is worthwhile. :confused:

I will not trade tech with both my neighbors, perhaps with neither, so that I can steal their land when I have tech advantage. Identifying suitable tech parters will be key to early finish, and getting courthouses up quickly will help me gain intelligence on what they are researching (espionage points). It is not unreasonable to have a tech lead in the mid game given enough land and cottages.

After the alphabet, I'll go for CoL => Civil Service. No girlie Drama for tech trade this time :lol:

Then I have to get the GPeoples for Mining Inc and whatever-the-food-corporation-is-called.

Does anyone have any advise what to do with a Great Spy?

Well, there's only one way to find out if this is a good strategy :crazyeye: See you in the first spoiler :wavey:
 
Does anyone have any advise what to do with a Great Spy?
If it is early(from GW), I'd infiltrate an advanced near neighbor and use those points to steal techs!
 
@ AI adopting civics

This is a bug!

3.17 AI won't adopt civics

There is a thread explaining this in detail:

RefuseAttitudeThresholds not working ???

I'm not a code reader, but here are some points:

  • For some deals (resource, civic, religion) AI considers Player attitude, not Team attitude.
  • Player attitude for those trades is always Cautious, not the real attitude!
  • AI to AI deals are messed up too, wrong attitudes are used.
Horrors! :cry:
 
Reading that thread, it sounds like some serious stuff!
 
That certainly sounds really bad. Do we really want to go with 3.17 with that bug in it? It limits the diplomatic options quite a lot. I guess it's too late for this particular game, but gee...
 
@ AI adopting civics

This is a bug!
Moderator Action: I moved your previous post. Please DO NOT post spoilers in these threads! You have just given-away to everyone who the rivals are!

If you have a problem, then please PM one of the GOTM staff, or post it in generics (ie. no names / civs given), rather than specifics.
 
Moderator Action: I moved your previous post. Please DO NOT post spoilers in these threads! You have just given-away to everyone who the rivals are!

If you have a problem, then please PM one of the GOTM staff, or post it in generics (ie. no names / civs given), rather than specifics.

No, I was talking about a test game posted on this thread, not about the actual BOTM game and I said that in the post!
 
Can I suggest deleting the last two posts, as it sounds like ainwood's Moderator Action does now give away who the rivals are?
 
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