SGOTM 08 - Smurkz

Niklas · Oct 7, 2008

Very true. The good thing about Parthenon is that the AIs don't build it until around turn 150+, according to the games I checked. Not sure where we'd rather build it. Harapura is the least important to keep pure w.r.t. GPP pool, maybe build it there after GLH? If we do it in the capitol, we'd increase the short-term chance of getting GA instead of a GS from 1/6 to 2/7, not perfect IMO. And I'd rather keep Hari on military duty once we've built those Barracks.

unkle · Oct 7, 2008

Looks to me we are already planning ahead of mu turnset

It really means I am getting late, so here is a smurkz summary of what I plan to do in the coming ~10 turns:

Long term plan:
Get as many wonders as possible and win the game (a quite late game)

Mid-term plan:
Get Key wonders then get Shaka out of the game

Short-term plan:
Complete early Mids + prepare for GLib+Glh. Get us some troops and a worker (but first a worker).
Explore with a non-returning galley without cutting corners

Turnset description

Turn 0(71):
zzz (not even a worker cancel).
Switch Yo! to work 2xSci asap.
Move fogbusting warrior towards Shaka.

Turn 1(72):
zzz but worker cancel on the PH

Turn 2(73):
Camp on dumbos, 2 workers.
Yo! gets Axe, starts baray.

Turn 3(74):
Camp completed.

Turn 4(75):
Move back to PH, mine. Move toward cows (unclear what GD is...)

Turn 5(76):
End mine on PH. Cows, pasture. Quarry completed.
Hari switches to 2xPHmine (isn't there a discrepancy with the sheet here ? One that's delaying Mids ?)
Hara whips 1 pop for granary.
Yo whips Baray for 3.

Turn 6(77):
Move to forest NE of Hari, chop. Road on Marble.
Hara starts Lighthouse.
Yo! starts Axe.

Turn 7(78):
zzz !

Turn 8(79):
Move S of Marble, road. Chop done. Pasture done.

Turn 9(80):
Road done. Move worker towards chop targets (E and N of Hari, in the right order).
Aesthetics completed !! Starts Myst.

Turn 10(81):
Start Fort. Chop completed. Move toward N of Hari.

Turnset completed ! Hopefully without any glitches... or glitshakas...
Next player should get the Mids....

unkle · Oct 7, 2008

Last question: I guess the 2 axes are bound to move to PM in our western cities right ?
So what do we do with the one warrior from Hari ? I'd move him towards Shaka too...

Niklas · Oct 7, 2008

I'd rather keep the warriors as MPs and move the axes closer to the border... :mischief:

EDIT: We found an error in the sheet, with the dumbos connected two turns earlier we'll have a free citizen for two turns. Some quick calculations show that we can work the marble one turn and a coast one turn, which will speed up growth and give a bunch of extra hammers. That's enough to give us back NE on turn 106.

unkle · Oct 7, 2008

Always forgot that PM is really MP. And doh on keeping Axes...
Btw turns with one more citizens will be 74 and 75, so Marble is not completed (meaning gHForest = Marble). Right ?

unkle · Oct 7, 2008

Some very quick turnset log (it is much too late), since mostly everything which was planned was done, except one thing which was done better (ok I screw up, but it appears the plan was wrong so we end up in a better situation). So please go back to the plan for details.

Summary of the 10 turns:
* We encounter Joao, who is on the main landmass (which is big)
* There is an island with stone and a hut we could settle on
* GW and Oracle were built (see time in the Autolog).

Some screens are attached. Probably better to use web-based systems I guess (next turnset I'll manage to do the log while playing... I need a third computer

)

>>The save<<

The gamelog:

Spoiler :

and if either Chris, rolo or Niklas have a log of the IM session, they can post it. Was not on my computer so nothing was saved in IM (or is it a msn group thing to not save ??).

Anyway Chris, you are up. There is one thing to discuss before the end of turn 81 which is what to do with the galley (among many others). Get back the warrior to grab the hut or continue exploring around the main landmass ?

ChrisShaffer · Oct 8, 2008

Got it. Nice play.

I was chatting via Adium at work. I logged out when I left for home and don't have auto-logging enabled in the client. I do think it would be interesting (for observers and absent players) to post the turnset chat logs here. It definitely changes the way I view the turnset.

I'll have to look at the previous spreadsheets and log, but my inclination is to find someplace to pop a settler and drop a city and worker by the stone... when is our next worker scheduled to be built?

r_rolo1 · Oct 8, 2008

I haven't saved the chat log ( I normally do )

Niklas · Oct 8, 2008

Spoiler chatlog :

ChrisShaffer · Oct 8, 2008

Niklas, can you post the spreadsheet files from message #469

edit - and also #459

ChrisShaffer · Oct 8, 2008

We are comfortably within our health limits - why aren't we giving Shaka the pigs along with the fish?

Niklas · Oct 8, 2008

Sure, here they are. They are no longer exactly like in that post though, due to the errors discovered during unkle's playing. :crazyeye:

Niklas · Oct 8, 2008

ChrisShaffer said:
We are comfortably within our health limits - why aren't we giving Shaka the pigs along with the fish?

That's a good point. We will grow Yo! to max size 10 in forseeable time, and with the Baray we now have a health cap of 11. So yeah, we could gift one more away to good effect.

ChrisShaffer · Oct 8, 2008

Heading to work soon, so here are my thoughts before I leave.

1) Why are we several turns ahead on research compared to the spreadsheet? Can we take advantage of that somehow? Perhaps slot in a turn of 0% research to build up the treasury again?

2) Gift pigs to Shaka.

3) Capital - finish axeman, galley, partial axeman, begin Great Library

4) Hari - finish Pyramids, worker -> begin settler ?? I think we need a settler for the stone island soon - is it worth it to delay the barracks for this?

5) Harapura - finish lighthouse, begin Great Lighthouse

6) Send exploring galley south - let exploring warrior clear the spaces north of the galley

7) Polytheism -> Literature

p.s. diplomacy screen shows Joao has 5 cities and Shaka has 3.

unkle · Oct 8, 2008

Does it means anything to cancel and retrade the fish (like 10 turn peace delay with Shaka) ?
Agreed on the pig anyway.

Xcalibrator · Oct 8, 2008

We don't need to decide on the settler yet, but it would be nice to claim that new island soon. Keep in mind that we only want 2 cities there, perhaps with the 2nd on the NE corner. More than 2 cities on a new landmass has significantly larger maintenance costs in BTS. Would be nice to have our western warrior explore the W coast and then meet up with the galley to be ferried to the stone island; if he gets there before the settler he can patrol near the hut to keep a barb from appearing--barbs destroy huts, don't they? If one does pop up we can have our warrior grab the hut--would be preferable to have border expansion from a city gently claim it for us, though. Maybe have the galley kill time exploring the N coast of the stone island while he's waiting for the warrior?

BTW, does the spreadsheet take into account the research bonus for meeting new civs? And does it include the extra commerce I assume we're now getting from Joao?

unkle · Oct 8, 2008

I think barb keep huts, they do not destroy them.

ChrisShaffer · Oct 8, 2008

Hari will finish Pyramids and build a worker by turn 89. My turnset ends on turn 91. So we need to decide if we want to build a barracks or a settler now, because the decision will be implemented during my set.

Barbarians don't pop huts. Shaka might do it though. Best to save it as long as possible, in my opinion.

p.s. just saw unkle's question - there isn't any reason to cancel the fish, but in the end the only thing to worry about is canceling a gift within ten turns of making the agreement. Anytime after ten turns we can cancel without negative repercussions (though we would stop gaining the benefit).

Niklas · Oct 8, 2008

ChrisShaffer said:
1) Why are we several turns ahead on research compared to the spreadsheet? Can we take advantage of that somehow? Perhaps slot in a turn of 0% research to build up the treasury again?

The sheet is only tentative, I didn't try to make any exact numbers, only a lower bound estimate. So it's great the we're ahead, and as you say it might be a good idea to run another turn at 0%. But let's wait to do that until we're ready to start on Literature, so we can be absolutely certain that we'll have it in time.

2) Gift pigs to Shaka.

Agreed.

3) Capital - finish axeman, galley, partial axeman, begin Great Library

Almost, but not quite (and this is a *very* important point). Finish axeman, then another axeman (partial), then whip galley, then Great Library. We must do it in this order so we can whip the galley and gain the overflow towards the GLib.

4) Hari - finish Pyramids, worker -> begin settler ?? I think we need a settler for the stone island soon - is it worth it to delay the barracks for this?

I'm starting to be nervous about trusting Shaka that much further. But I agree, we want two settlers to that island sooner rather than later (thanks Xc for the info on off-continent maintenance!).

5) Harapura - finish lighthouse, begin Great Lighthouse

Nothing strange there.

6) Send exploring galley south - let exploring warrior clear the spaces north of the galley

I agree with you here. I think it's much more important to get the galley going southwards than to transport a warrior to the new island. I'd much rather the warrior continues down the western shore to keep exploring. We want more contacts!

7) Polytheism -> Literature

Yep. If when Poly completes you see that Literature could finish on turn 89 (regardless of treasury), then run a turn at 0% first. There is no reason for us to get Literature earlier than 90, so better to boost our treasury for what comes after.

As to unkle's question, I'm not completely certain but I believe it's only up-front trades that include the 10 turns peace treaty. Rolo will know for sure. And to Chris, we don't need to worry about cancelling before 10 turns are up either, since it's impossible to do so.

r_rolo1 · Oct 8, 2008

Only one sided demands/requests will enforce the peace deals. Normal trades or gifts will not.

This was implemented to avoid that you could extort techs from a target and DOW after....

SGOTM 08 - Smurkz

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