DMOC's DEITY Game #1 - Gandhi

You're quite right fjordan, phants are perfect for the stack i described, forgot he has ivory. With Theo they're close (3xp) to formation already. They can be whipped, overflow can be used etc. Also their higher base strength makes them better compared to pikes when wounded.A bit controversial maybe but i believe that before building anything big (>100 hammers) or building units you should always build a forge, it just cuts down on everything after. It takes some annoying micro to get full value due to rounding down but it's good whatever when whipping.

Tech from lib is really hard to decide, would be bad taking gunpowder and find out you can't trade for nationalism when you plan to start drafting, but often you can. I think i would prefer nationalism to pp as freebie (also on the chance that i can trade for constitution directly) but think it's close compared to gunpowder.I leave it to DMOC in the end.

Chem is bulbed after pp if you don't know astro, if you do know astro SM'll be first. Also if you want to bulb astro you should delay gunpowder otherwise chem will be bulbed.

Dirk1302 said:

They can be whipped, overflow can be used etc.

Click to expand...

Would you please explain what you meant by "overflow can be used"? If you mean to make more war elephants, when doesn't overflow apply to the next build? I'm a noble/prince level player and I love reading reports like this one to understand the game in more detail. (So, thanks DMOC for posting this one ).

There's a hefty penalty when whipping a wonder and you can only do so at the end. So the idea is (i leave out the forge in the example):

Phant = 70 hammers so for instance with a 3 pop whip (90 hammers) you build the phant and have an overflow of 20 hammers. Next turn you put on globe theaters, those 20 hammers overflow go into GT now. Turn after you take GT off queue and put on another phant, whip next turn again. GT is put back on and again the overflow of the whip goes to GT again. Rinse and repeat.

Of course it isn't as simple as that, you don't have enough food to whip turn after turn but this is the idea, put on phant -> whip-> put on GT to profit from overflow-> put on phant etc...

That would be a good idea to do. I would need to switch back into slavery for this reason. This also means that I will start working more cottages as switching out of caste system will result in fewer available scientists.

I think the next round should see some cottages being built over the farms in certain cities (especially the capital). I've gotten plenty of Great People from the city already.

I need Horseback Riding for war elephants, though, so I'll be looking to get that in a trade (or self reserach it).

Does anyone how how much upgrading a catapult to a cannon costs? I would like to build some catapults right now and then upgrade later.

Lastly, my next Great Scientist in 6 turns will be used to bulb Chemistry. According to this thread, Printing Press has a higher priority than Chemistry so I need to avoid Machinery until then. Of course, after bulbing part of Chemistry, I need Machinery and then Engineering for Steel. I may try to generate 1 more Great Person in the capital (a merchant) for upgrades.

DMOC, you need Engineering for Chemistry...

Really? Oh well, I guess I do need Machinery/Engineering AND Printing Press.

Well don't trade for HBR, you should be able to get it in 2 turns now, would be a waste if you miss a big trade later because of trading for HBR now. If you don't plan to bulb that much from here maybe pp gets in the picture more as lib tech but i don't like it.You set up your economy for gp/bulbs so use it now and try to get 3 GS + 1 GM extra out of it.Build NE in capital if you need to. Use the other cities for slave/draft.

I don't like PP as the liberalism tech as it can be bulbed. I'm more inclined towards Nationalism.

I just have a question...why would I need 3 more GS? Wouldn't I only need 2 more (1 for Printing Press, the other for Chemistry)?

Also, National Epic will take too long to build in the capital (blame the lack of marble) so I would rather build other things instead.

Edit...when I use whip overflow into a wonder, does that whip overflow hammer get reduced (due to the penalty for whipping wonders) or is it not?

Whip overflow into a Wonder does not get reduced. It can be an effective way to contribute to the building of a Wonder in hammer-poor cities, though the optimization is tedious.

2 GS is probably ok indeed, you will need to research ~40% of chemistry yourself in that case. I'd have to check on that NE, under buro and with iirc the iron near capital i'd say it should be done in ~10-15 turns. But indeed these hammers could go to phants instead.

Trebs are considerably cheaper to upgrade than cats IIRC. So there is going to be some micro management needed for the optimal path. Not sure how long you can delay / how fast you can get Lib. HBR and Engineering would be very nice so you can build trebs and phants (in citie(s) with a stable). Maybe just HBR? Tough call. I am looking forward to the path you choose, may be very instructional.

Edit @Dex: the beauty of overflow whip in the Globe Theater under HR is you leave the units in the city so you will never have unhappy people. Then when the GT is finished you walk out with a nice army.

Upgrading cats is indeed very expensive , upgrading trebs costs only 70 gold. Machinery, engineering are very important to get early. It'll be costly though since education will have to be traded for machinery, i'd make this deal with Cyrus since it'll give a welcome +4 trade modifier. Then lib can be traded for engineering which is more fair. If nationalism is chosen hope to trade it for pp later.

An alternative could be to self research machinery keeping a monopole on edu. Edu can be traded for better techs than machinery i this case, maybe an optics engineering combo. Keep in mind though that the ais on deity research twice as fast as the human player this stage of the game. So edu is probably cheaper for them than machinery is for us Also we need machinery, the ais don't need education, it doesn't help them as much as for instance pp or gunpowder would do.

Another idea is to trade nationalism instead of edu. They may research constitution which is what you want, they may also research military tradition which is what you specifically don't want. I'd guess Ram might go constitution but Cyrus mil trad if you were to trade away nationalism.Highly speculative this i know since there is also an rng at work in choosing the tech for the ai. All in all too dangerous, also since you can't trade lib subsequently.

Edit: just realized that with vassalage/theo combo phants are coming out of the box with 9 xp, after taking the first city some of the phants'll get formation already. You may cross some hills, take a few pikes along to profit from the defensive bonus, phants don't get this bonus.

Just checked, you can build NE in 9 turns if you use all the hammers. It's epic so that converts to 6 turns on normal. I would certainly do that and probably would have done so earlier. It's not as important now your philosophical but it's still a very nice bonus.

Hey DMOC - sorry to threadjack slightly (and I'm loving the game!) but where did you get those cool little AI cards with the tendencies/war probabilities etc. from? I mean the ones at the bottom of page 3.

Don't worry, you aren't threadjacking.

I got that information from the Beyond the Sword reference tables. I'd say that it is quite an awesome piece of work.

I apologize for the lack of updates. It seems that even on Friday nights, I am swamped with stuff to do. It looks to be the same for next weekend as well. Pray that my teachers don't assign me a test on January 20th (then I have to spend the Martin Luther King Jr. weekend studying!). In the meantime, my CIV "playing time" is limited to being here on the forums.

This game has been down for far too long. It is time to revive it!


Round 7: 250 AD to 460 AD (15 Turns) -- The Cottaging Spree


I started off the round by doing a little bit of city checking, resource deal checking, technology checking, etc. just as in every round.

I continued researching Liberalism. While I did that (which took the whole round), I focused more on cottaging my cities. The reason I didn't cottage was because I like to have many farms+caste system/scientists to accelerate research. Of course, I realize that I need an economic transition.

As dirk advised, I built the National Epic in the capital. It actually took 8 turns instead of 9.

Before:



After (with Bureaucracy, I didn't need to stay in Vassalage any longer since Cyrus remained pleased with me):



Also, to answer an earlier question, I got 176 gold from failing to complete the University of Sankore.

In 415 AD, I got news about how my culture ranked versus the deity-level AI's.



On the same turn, I got another Great Scientist in Delhi. He would have bulbed Comass, which I hardly needed at the moment. So I saved him. Once I research Machinery, he should bulb a hefty portion of Printing Press. I need Printing Press "cleared" in order to bulb Chemistry with a Great Scientist.



With Liberalism 1 turn to completion, I checked the tech screen, and was surprised to find that Cyrus had researched Nationalism this turn. The tech wasn't on there last turn.



Nevertheless, I still decided to take Nationalism off Liberalism in 460 AD.





I decided to take this because:

1. This is the biggest bang of the buck
2. I could trade the tech to Ramesses II and Wang Kon (Cyrus would have hoarded the tech)
3. It allows me to draft in the future
4. It seemed silly to pick a tech like Gunpowder if I would need Nationalism later and Gunpowder is much cheaper
5. Too many other reasons to list...

Anyway, I ended the round at 460 AD. Here's the overview:


Tech choices:



Tech screen:



Demographics:



The map:





So...what's the plan? I would go with researching Horseback Riding -> Gunpowder while trading for Machinery/Compass so that I can bulb Printing Press. If I run enough Great Scientists in my capital, it's possible that I can get 2 more Great Scientists (or, hopefully not, I could get 1 Great Artist). I think that if I happen to get a Great Artist, I will just burn him on a Golden Age (is that OK with everyone?). If I get 2 more Great Scientists, I could use the GS I have now for Printing Press and use those 2 to bulb Chemistry together. Some beakers will be wasted, though.

Are there any tech trades I should do now? Or should I wait until Ramesses II finishes researching Education? I believe he is about 10-20% done with that tech. No other AI seems to be researching Education or Nationalism at the moment.

My city builds have been focused on research and happiness. Research is to help me get to Steel by about 1000 AD, and happiness is to help combat what will ultimately be draft unhappiness.


The save:

The save is in this post.

Finally an update .

I would prefer geting Engineering if possible, +1 movement is important, But WE's are just fine. If you get Great Artist you could keep him up for culture bomb. If you conquer cities it will come handy to secure you some tiles around. Main reason would be to delay GA a bit more. But having GA in this period is fine also.

I played a bit around with Cannons+Muskets while there were no updates, and its extremely powerful combination. Cannons eat for breakfast pretty much everything, you just need enough Muskets to kill all wounded defenders.

What next?! Monitor diplo carefully as you did so far, tech ahead and press enter happily until you get Cannons . One tiny advice, first build some Cannons and then draft muskets, not the other way around.

ps. I already learned a lot about diplo from this game .

I'd do something like compass/machinery/music with wang(or no music)

then eng/optics with ramses, while researching for 1 turn eng in order for him to accept.

those for nat.

since I suppose they didn't contact the other continent yet, so wfybta shouldn't kick in yet. Problem is neither of them has optics, but... well...

this way you can bulb pp. Anyway, econ. looks grim since it's alot of tech not bulbable... and at 100% you're barely producing 300 when univs will kick in.

Hi!

Interesting game! I haven't played Deity much and it wasn't very successful either so here's a disclaimer right now. I also haven't read the entire thread (yet) so I apologize if I'm stating obvious things...

Anyway, your position seems very tough to me, almost lost actually. Your future Globe city doesn't have much food, you will only be able to draft once every 3 turns. You're also cottaging your capital now and you have the NE there. I'd farm Delhi and move the capital to Pataliputra and go for as many GS as possible in Delhi. If you push hard you could get Astronomy as well: 1 GS for PP, 1 GS for Astro partially (not to unlock Sci-Meth) before you trade for Engineering and Chemistry with 1 or 2 GS when you do get Engineering and unlock Chemistry.

There is a long road to Steel and cannons are expensive to build without HE, this will take some time. Maybe you should try sth else? What about full espionage spending on Cyrus now? You could whip courthouses and use the espionage slider somewhat later. Maybe Ramesses will research MT and trade it to you if you get him back to Friendly?

Your main problem is definitely low research rate, it will take a lot even to reach Gunpowder...Maybe research building in some cites?

Looking forward to the continuation, hope these observations will be of some use to you!