RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread
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3Miro
Deity
Poor Foreign stability occurs when you are at war with most civs that you know. Try signing peace and OB.
Stability in general needs a lot of work.
Stability in general needs a lot of work.
Some comments on a recently loaded game as England:
1) Milan seems to always get razed in new versions. The barbarians invade Italy and destroy Milan. I've seen Genoa with Brescia, Novara and a few other cities, but Milan is never there. This is probably a consequence of so many barb cities, but for some reason no other independent city seems to get razed.
2) The Kievans were devastated by the barbarians in every game I loaded. Then again, maybe that's intended.
3) The Byzantines were busy reconquering the Near East, having captured Tyre and Damascus. Except Damascus got renamed to Palmyra; need to sync up the settler maps over there.
4) The Cordobans had actually settled North Africa! This made me happy to see.
5) Venice is now aggressive on land, and had conquered Belgrade. In the mean time, Hungary has settled Spalato. Methinks these should be reversed.
6) The Norse founded Amsterdam. It shouldn't be in the Norse AI's areas to settle, should it?
1) Milan seems to always get razed in new versions. The barbarians invade Italy and destroy Milan. I've seen Genoa with Brescia, Novara and a few other cities, but Milan is never there. This is probably a consequence of so many barb cities, but for some reason no other independent city seems to get razed.
2) The Kievans were devastated by the barbarians in every game I loaded. Then again, maybe that's intended.
3) The Byzantines were busy reconquering the Near East, having captured Tyre and Damascus. Except Damascus got renamed to Palmyra; need to sync up the settler maps over there.
4) The Cordobans had actually settled North Africa! This made me happy to see.
5) Venice is now aggressive on land, and had conquered Belgrade. In the mean time, Hungary has settled Spalato. Methinks these should be reversed.
6) The Norse founded Amsterdam. It shouldn't be in the Norse AI's areas to settle, should it?
3Miro
Deity
Just some notes.
Couple of people complained about crashes. I checked the Arabian savegame and for 3 turns it did not crash. I have not checked the Dutch one yet. The problem with random crashes is that they are very hard to catch. Unless I can find the exact moment of the crash (and hopefully the crash always happens at that moment), then there is little I can do. I will keep on trying and please keep on reporting.
In a related note, I am sure there are a few bugs left in Civilization itself. Games can also crash because of driver and generic windows issues. That just makes random crashes even harder to catch even if they are due some mistake of mine.
I have about 70% of the Crusades mechanics coded. I hope to get another test version out tomorrow.
Couple of people complained about crashes. I checked the Arabian savegame and for 3 turns it did not crash. I have not checked the Dutch one yet. The problem with random crashes is that they are very hard to catch. Unless I can find the exact moment of the crash (and hopefully the crash always happens at that moment), then there is little I can do. I will keep on trying and please keep on reporting.
In a related note, I am sure there are a few bugs left in Civilization itself. Games can also crash because of driver and generic windows issues. That just makes random crashes even harder to catch even if they are due some mistake of mine.
I have about 70% of the Crusades mechanics coded. I hope to get another test version out tomorrow.
Wessel V1
Emperor
That's weird, usually I try to get as many OB's as possible
. I think I'll soon start another game, send some scouts to eastern Europe (currently I don't have that many contacts). Still, what I find confusing is that whatever civ I'm playing, foreign stability increases, without any action (signing OB's, DP's, contacting new civs), to around +25. It feels like free stability. However, the same thing applies for Burgundy, but it DECREASES to around -25. On the crashes: most of them are in the late game, and moving quickly on the minimap almost guarantees a crash when approaching Russia. I'll try to set my graphics to low, to see if that makes any difference.
EDIT: Cottages can't grow anymore, whereas hamlets still can. I think I'm going to reinstall everything.
EDIT 2: Solved it, moved Colonial Trade back in the CIV4ImprovementInfos. Though it probably was something else, it works nevertheless.
micbic
Optimistic Pessimist
Synchronizing these two maps is a challenge. I may post the-for-inclusion-to-the-next-version py. file tomorrow, as they may be in general disagreement in Middle East and Asia Minor area.
I can't agree that stability is too high on Monarch for the human player, esp. when you're playing as Burgundy. In my last game I never got better than shaky (-10) then I'm not the greatest civ player either.
I've not had very many problems staying solid or better when following 'historical' expansions. I have driven my stability to shaky with wars or other factors, but rarely if ever would I be unstable or lower for long.
But I wasn't concerned about my stability when I made that post. I was simple looking at the leaderboard on the bottom right and noticing except for the 2 civilizations I had invaded and collapsed, everyone was solid or better. Everyone.
I think stability has been trivialized, if not for the human player, then for the AI at least. Another possibility is that despite frequent AI wars, territory rarely seems to be ceased or ceded.
Try mine. It might be something related to my software or hardware, but every time I clicked "end turn" after that save, I crashed. So it wasn't random.
BurnEmDown
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
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- 1,718
One thing I forgot from the Corduba game, I noticed ALL units got the medic bonus, even ships, spies, missionaries, and even workers and settlers! I think this bonus should be given either only to military land units or only non-cavalry military land units.
Another thing: When playing as Bulgaria I get constantly attacked by barb horse archers. I had to restart twice since I lost my capital. Perhaps archers and other defensive units should get a bonus against city-attacking barbs?
And one last thing, I think this picture speaks for itself:
Another thing: When playing as Bulgaria I get constantly attacked by barb horse archers. I had to restart twice since I lost my capital. Perhaps archers and other defensive units should get a bonus against city-attacking barbs?
And one last thing, I think this picture speaks for itself:
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played a Venice game yesterday and noticed some things:
- Venice is way to advanced, that is partialy deu to their Unique Power which gives +25% on both research and wealth, this should change in just wealth or something. it was around 1200 that I could research Printing press which I didn't want to found, so I waited more that 100 years to research it (I allready stoped before that). still no one founded Protestism after 100 years in which I could.
- Venice it's two UVA's it has now are way to easy, just found 4 city's and capture one and ur done. they should have some kind of wealth UVA which is way harder to get. I had to 1500 for the first and 1650 for the second, I had the both of them at 1300, which was slow becouse I didn't rush. (I played on Monarch)
- Genoa and Austria are way to weak.
Austria had 2 city's next to eachother and offert to be a vassal 2 turns after spawn. Hungary cruched their axeman/spearman with knight, and if it weren't for my musketman, they didn't stand a chance.
Genoa fouded Genoa and waited way to long to take Milan (independent). after that they founded caggliari and had a game long war with Florance, their units didn't stand a chance.
- Venice is way to advanced, that is partialy deu to their Unique Power which gives +25% on both research and wealth, this should change in just wealth or something. it was around 1200 that I could research Printing press which I didn't want to found, so I waited more that 100 years to research it (I allready stoped before that). still no one founded Protestism after 100 years in which I could.
- Venice it's two UVA's it has now are way to easy, just found 4 city's and capture one and ur done. they should have some kind of wealth UVA which is way harder to get. I had to 1500 for the first and 1650 for the second, I had the both of them at 1300, which was slow becouse I didn't rush. (I played on Monarch)
- Genoa and Austria are way to weak.
Austria had 2 city's next to eachother and offert to be a vassal 2 turns after spawn. Hungary cruched their axeman/spearman with knight, and if it weren't for my musketman, they didn't stand a chance.
Genoa fouded Genoa and waited way to long to take Milan (independent). after that they founded caggliari and had a game long war with Florance, their units didn't stand a chance.
civmademepoor
Chieftain
I've had no problem playing Genoa: in fact, I've found it a little on the easier side once you figure out how to get OB with Justinian, and I often see it hold its own when the AI controls it. If I were going to make a tweak, it would be to dial back Florence and ramp up Milan a tad: Milan isn't productive or big enough, IMHO, and Florence is powerhouse.
3Miro
Deity
Bulgaria is poorly defended against Horse Archers. Increase the power of Archers maybe, or give couple of free Spearman on start.
For the Papal thing, my assumption is that the Pope used Spies to spread some culture in Belgrade. I will stop the Pope from building spies, hopefully this will fix the problem.
Wessel V1
Emperor
Noticed it too, but it's easy to solve. See the second edit in my post (685). However, it may be destructive for Colonial trades.
3Miro
Deity
couple of personal observations:
- the unit mechanics need balancing. The Horse Archers are overpowered. The two extra first strikes give them unfair advantage against any other early unit (incidentally, the Bulgarian Konnik does not receive first strikes). The spearman (that are supposed to counter Horse Archers) get only + 25%, which means that they get to 4 + 1 vs 6 on open ground, in other words the odds are for the Horse Archers. Which means that a player with spearman can only defend his own cities (barely) against a significant number of HA. A possible solution would be to increase the Spearman bonus.
- similar disbalance exists for the second level of pikes vs heavy horseman. The ratio is something like 6 + 3 vs 11.
- the only defense is to use heavy cavalry vs heavy cavalry, in which case the human is in a disadvantageous position since the AI pumps units much faster.
- the amount of HA and axeman that spawn very early next to Bulgaria is too much. Bulgaria is barely able to defend. Maybe with weaker barbs or stronger units (couple of good spearman)
- if the 50th turn Plague strikes Bulgaria defeat is almost inevitable (loss of city is). The Plague kills the Archers and some of the Konnik leaving no defenders available at all. If we keep the 50th turn plague, we should make only the older nations susceptible to it. Immunity in the current version only lasts for 20 turns after spawn, we may increase that.
- the unit mechanics need balancing. The Horse Archers are overpowered. The two extra first strikes give them unfair advantage against any other early unit (incidentally, the Bulgarian Konnik does not receive first strikes). The spearman (that are supposed to counter Horse Archers) get only + 25%, which means that they get to 4 + 1 vs 6 on open ground, in other words the odds are for the Horse Archers. Which means that a player with spearman can only defend his own cities (barely) against a significant number of HA. A possible solution would be to increase the Spearman bonus.
- similar disbalance exists for the second level of pikes vs heavy horseman. The ratio is something like 6 + 3 vs 11.
- the only defense is to use heavy cavalry vs heavy cavalry, in which case the human is in a disadvantageous position since the AI pumps units much faster.
- the amount of HA and axeman that spawn very early next to Bulgaria is too much. Bulgaria is barely able to defend. Maybe with weaker barbs or stronger units (couple of good spearman)
- if the 50th turn Plague strikes Bulgaria defeat is almost inevitable (loss of city is). The Plague kills the Archers and some of the Konnik leaving no defenders available at all. If we keep the 50th turn plague, we should make only the older nations susceptible to it. Immunity in the current version only lasts for 20 turns after spawn, we may increase that.
jessiecat
Divine Monarch
A couple of points from my last game as Hungary. Got the first 2 UHV conditions but the 3rd. one seems broken. I hadn't lost any cities to barbarians or Ottomans but even many years after 1650AD it said "not yet" for that condition.
It keeps saying X city would like to join the Papal States. Is the Pope supposed to have a growing empire? When I did gift a couple of cities they never grew or had any improvements arround them. Other than making the Pope happy what use are these cities?
It keeps saying X city would like to join the Papal States. Is the Pope supposed to have a growing empire? When I did gift a couple of cities they never grew or had any improvements arround them. Other than making the Pope happy what use are these cities?
3Miro
Deity
The Pope should work as an OCC, I have not figure out a way to do it however. The Pope should never control more than 1 city (that is Rome).
I will look into the Hungarian UHV.
I will look into the Hungarian UHV.
Greeneyedzombie
King
Been playing around a bit, and builded a few colonial projects, but after a while they just simply dissapear, and I loos all the resources from them.
civmademepoor
Chieftain
Couple of notes on Sweden:
1) The 1st UHV isn't kicking-in at 1656 (neither a yes you've done it or no you haven't)
2) I'm pretty sure Sweden is supposed to control three cities south or east of the Baltic, not south and east of the Balkans, which would be quite a feat indeed.
3) Viborg should be spelt with an "i" in Swedish, not a "y", and I wonder if it should be Kronstadt or St. Petersburg when controlled by Russia.
4) Should Norway and/or Denmark be on Sweden's [settler/war] map? That said, I'm not exactly sure what those do, but the AI should have some interest in controlling those areas.
General Notes:
1) The game gets WICKED slow around 1630 or so, and in my most recent game only three civs had collapsed/been wiped out (Byzantium, the Norse & Spain, the latter two by me). I wonder if a prolonged state of vassalage could/should lead to being incorporated into the master or to dissolution to neighboring states to hasten the speed of the game by eliminating players? I think there is some real precedent for this if we stretched our imagination a little and might in a roundabout way get to our earlier discussion surrounding marriage and inheriting fiefs.
2) Somebody please tell me a bit about the city of Eye (in Estonia/Russia, it's Narva when Sweden controls it). Just curious.
1) The 1st UHV isn't kicking-in at 1656 (neither a yes you've done it or no you haven't)
2) I'm pretty sure Sweden is supposed to control three cities south or east of the Baltic, not south and east of the Balkans, which would be quite a feat indeed.
3) Viborg should be spelt with an "i" in Swedish, not a "y", and I wonder if it should be Kronstadt or St. Petersburg when controlled by Russia.
4) Should Norway and/or Denmark be on Sweden's [settler/war] map? That said, I'm not exactly sure what those do, but the AI should have some interest in controlling those areas.
General Notes:
1) The game gets WICKED slow around 1630 or so, and in my most recent game only three civs had collapsed/been wiped out (Byzantium, the Norse & Spain, the latter two by me). I wonder if a prolonged state of vassalage could/should lead to being incorporated into the master or to dissolution to neighboring states to hasten the speed of the game by eliminating players? I think there is some real precedent for this if we stretched our imagination a little and might in a roundabout way get to our earlier discussion surrounding marriage and inheriting fiefs.
2) Somebody please tell me a bit about the city of Eye (in Estonia/Russia, it's Narva when Sweden controls it). Just curious.
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civmademepoor
Chieftain
Oh, this was on the version prior to 3Miro's most recent crusade addition: Sedna's 2/2/09.
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