FfH2 Bug Thread

Monthar · Feb 6, 2009

Team games don't function properly.

1) When it comes to several of the world wonders that give a free building in all your cities. Some, like the catacombs do give the mage guild in the cities of all team mates. However. others only give the building to the player that built it, not the others on that player's team, such as the one that gives dungeons.

2) Some World spells that harm other civs are also harming our team mates. A friend and I were playing the other day and got the AC counter up to about 80 then he fired off his world spell that damages units in other civs based on the AC counter. Well that wiped out most of my troops, workers, etc, yet we were on the same team. Needless to say this royally messed up our war campaign. Other world spells, such as stasis are working correctly in that it does not effect your teammates.

It's probably best to reviews all the world wonders, world projects and world spells to be certain they all work properly when on a team.

3) The difficulty settings seem to be much easier than in unmodded games. So much so, that with a team of 2 that usually teams at Prince level in normal games can do so on Emperor and still not be as challenging. Yet on Deity we get overwhelmed due to the extra starting units the AI gets. Thus team games tend to get boring real quick with this mod, due to being far too easy.

Mesix · Feb 6, 2009

When we play team games, we give the AI players teams of 3 while we are on a team of 2. That generally evens the odds up a bit since they share research and such.

You are right about many of the issues with team games. This not only affects multiplayer teams, but also Premanent Alliances achieved through diplomacy in a single player game. I hope the developers take a look as some of the problems with game mechanics between team members.

Kael · Feb 6, 2009

Im glad to look at the team stuff. Let me know if you see wonders that arent applying bonuses to teams (though I will warn that some may only be intended to effect one player) or world spells that negatively effect teammates.

Inkling · Feb 6, 2009

I'm guessing this is probably intented, though i found no mention,and i hate cluttering up the bug thread with it, but none the less, i was disappointed to see that deaths in a balseraph arena do not count as deaths for the purposes of the soul forge, and i'm guessing Mokka's couldron as well(haven't tested yet) I'm also guessing it fails to create manes, but again, haven't tested, it just stands to reason that they all use the same function

Granted that might make the arena a bit too powerful, if thats the reasoning, i'd simply like to request it be noted in the pedia for the arena that deaths in the arena don't count for these situations

i was however, suprised to see immortals can participate in the arena... probably fixed with patch T

using patch R

Zechnophobe · Feb 6, 2009

18. The Great Library gives 1 free sage instead of 2.

Why is this change being made? Library is one of the few wonders worth building on a consistent basis, but I've always thought wasn't too powerful. If you want to tone it down a bit, I think raise the cost a smidge (It is amazingly cheap, especially with marble).

If you want to balance out some wonders, I'd say weaken the Pillar of Chains and Pact of Nilhorn.

Grey Fox · Feb 6, 2009

No, the Great Library really needed a nerf, and this is the right one I think. It's still gonna be worth getting.

Pillar of Chains does need a nerf, but the same kinda nerf Governor's Manor need. I'd suggest at least halving the hammer bonus so it's 0.5 hammers per unhappy face.

Pact of Nilhorn isn't that good. The Giants are easily killed and the wonder is quite expensive for such an early wonder. But I've posted a thread about making it an event instead of a wonder. (Thematically would require a Great Bard I guess, and perhaps the giants homestead on the map as a unique feature or such).

MagisterCultuum · Feb 6, 2009

I don't think the Great Library needed a nerf, but I'd kind of life to nerf it my moving to a latter tech; I don't tend to expand quickly, so moving it back would make the AI less likely to beat me to it. I'm thinking that in my version I may chance The Great Library to The Library of Oghma, which would require Arcane Lore and would probably either boost each sage's research by 2 instead of 1 or provide 1 Metemagic Mana.

I really think that Pact of the Nilhorn should be built by a Great Bard instead of like a normal wonder. I'd also prefer if it no longer spawned 3 HN Hill Giants, but rather make Hill Giants buildable in that city.

Neomega · Feb 6, 2009

I am glad the great library got nerfed a bit. It was very difficult to get anything but great sages as some civs once it was built.

Zechnophobe · Feb 6, 2009

Neomega said:
I am glad the great library got nerfed a bit. It was very difficult to get anything but great sages as some civs once it was built.

This doesn't make sense to me. It got nerfed, but now you think it is better?

Meh.

Monkeyfinger · Feb 6, 2009

It's one of those two wrongs make a right scenarios. An attempt to nerf an "overpowered" wonder instead improved a wonder that was underpowered because while it used to be a double edged sword, it's now almost strictly positive to have.

Neomega · Feb 6, 2009

Zechnophobe said:
This doesn't make sense to me. It got nerfed, but now you think it is better?

Meh.

If you are playing a civ that is maybe going for Esus (like Sidar, perhaps) as a religion, it took a long time to get deception. If you built the Great Library (Sandolphan's preferred wonder), all you could do was build a pagan temple and pray for a great priest, since the great library would pump out, I think it was 6 or 8 Great Sage points a turn. after a few great sages, you're screwed, it would take 40 turns to get another one, so forget Nox Noctis. If you had other temples, you still had to hurt your cities production greatly, just to allocate some GP points to counter the inherent great sage points, and even then, you were still looking at a 50% chance or so of getting one.

Kael · Feb 7, 2009

Patch "t" is linked in the first post. It will break save games and makes the following changes.

1. Fixed an error in the Holy Child event.
2. Started the great code review (simplification/removal of unnessesary code).
3. Pacifism loses the +1 gold cost per military unit, and gains a -20% military production modifier.
4. Events that target and spawn wont promote both units (ie: the enchanter event wont give enchantment 1 to both the spawned unit and the axeman/swordsman).
5. The Radiant Guard: fixed an issue that can make the scenario unwinnable if you kill Hyborem before Basium arrives.
6. Poisoned will be removed the turn you fully heal, not the turn after.
7. Fixed a CtD when capturing a unit with hiden nationality from a stack with neutral units.
8. New Svartalfar Longbowman unit model by seZereth.
9. You can no longer declare nationality when on a stack with enemy units.
10. Barbs can't found cities on mana nodes or found disabled plots (like the dungeon area in the Cult scenario) anymore.
11. Being immune to magic won't make you immune to abilities.
12. Releasing a unit from a cage is now an ability.
13. Extra duration from the Summoner trait decreased from +2 turns to +1 turn.
14. The Summoner trait now allows all summons to start with Combat 1.
15. Added the Reveal spell (allows a unit effected by Nox Noctis to forfeit its invisibility).
16. Production popup now has the civ race icon graphics instead of generic icons (so the orc warrior icon instead of a normal warrior for the clan).
17. Immortals won't trigger the unitkilled python function (keeps Decius from cloning when an immortal host dies and fixed other problems).
18. The Great Library gives 1 free sage instead of 2.

Mesix · Feb 7, 2009

Captured Vampire units cannot feast. Is this intended? Is the feast function somehow tied to the Calabim civ or Palace? It took some creative logistics and a little luck to get my Cammand III unit to convert the Vampire only to discover that it was relatively worthless. The only ability that he retained was the ability to gift Vampirism to level 6+ units which was also worthless since they cannont use the feast ability either. Capturing a Vampire feels a bit like starting a Pyramid scheme. Each unit with Vampirism can gift Vampirism to other units who can in turn gift it to still others with really no benefit to anyone. It's the vampiric Amway!

edit: I agree that the Great Library did not need to be nerfed. If you feel that it was overpowered for such an early wonder then maybe move it to a later tech. As was noted above, it is a double edged sword. Generating GS points prevents other types of great people from spawning making shrines and altars difficult to build and GE nearly impossible to spawn with any amount of regularity.

Mesix · Feb 7, 2009

Kael said:
Patch "t" is linked in the first post. It will break save games and makes the following changes.

1. Fixed an error in the Holy Child event.
2. Started the great code review (simplification/removal of unnessesary code).
3. Pacifism loses the +1 gold cost per military unit, and gains a -20% military production modifier.
4. Events that target and spawn wont promote both units (ie: the enchanter event wont give enchantment 1 to both the spawned unit and the axeman/swordsman).
5. The Radiant Guard: fixed an issue that can make the scenario unwinnable if you kill Hyborem before Basium arrives.
6. Poisoned will be removed the turn you fully heal, not the turn after.
7. Fixed a CtD when capturing a unit with hiden nationality from a stack with neutral units.
8. New Svartalfar Longbowman unit model by seZereth.
9. You can no longer declare nationality when on a stack with enemy units.
10. Barbs can't found cities on mana nodes or found disabled plots (like the dungeon area in the Cult scenario) anymore.
11. Being immune to magic won't make you immune to abilities.
12. Releasing a unit from a cage is now an ability.
13. Extra duration from the Summoner trait decreased from +2 turns to +1 turn.
14. The Summoner trait now allows all summons to start with Combat 1.
15. Added the Reveal spell (allows a unit effected by Nox Noctis to forfeit its invisibility).
16. Production popup now has the civ race icon graphics instead of generic icons (so the orc warrior icon instead of a normal warrior for the clan).
17. Immortals won't trigger the unitkilled python function (keeps Decius from cloning when an immortal host dies and fixed other problems).
18. The Great Library gives 1 free sage instead of 2.

I went to download patch "t" and the first post still shows patch "s". Is this a mistake in the naming of the file, or is the new patch not out yet?

Kael said:
Im glad to look at the team stuff. Let me know if you see wonders that arent applying bonuses to teams (though I will warn that some may only be intended to effect one player) or world spells that negatively effect teammates.

I will try to make some notes the next time Unclethrill and I play a team game at work. It may be a few days until I am able to provide feedback. I will start a separate thread with multiplayer issues instead of cluttering up this bug thread with problems that are likely to spawn discussion. As always, thanks for taking the time to continually improve a great mod and to listen to feedback from its avid players.

Monkeyfinger · Feb 7, 2009

Arcane lacuna blocks standard merc hiring, not just magnadine's.

xienwolf · Feb 7, 2009

Just didn't update his link. The links are very formulaic though, so here is the patch T.

Jules.lt · Feb 7, 2009

Is it intended that teamplay boosts research so much?
I think that some time ago there was a malus for teams, to compensate for the double research, but now it seems that it's a straight doubling of research. It feels like Quick speed, but worse: you hardly have any time to pump out units before the next tier is available, since your production on the other hand is not boosted.

P.S:Another thing I just thought about: the "nerf" also made the Great Library not completely out of the question as Grigori :goodjob:

Nikis-Knight · Feb 7, 2009

Crash to desktop in the following situation:
-Cast revelation to reveal a ghost sharing my tile
-Attacked an adjacent tile with a unit with command, converting that enemy unit
-That enemy unit now had to share a tile with a now non-invisible ghost.
-CTD

Jenaelha · Feb 7, 2009

Fall from Heaven 2
Version 0.40T ?

Is the readme file no longer being updated? I've updated to .40t but my readme still reads ...
Fall from Heaven 2
Version 0.40r

Sid_Unbreakable · Feb 7, 2009

Mesix said:
Captured Vampire units cannot feast. Is this intended? Is the feast function somehow tied to the Calabim civ or Palace? It took some creative logistics and a little luck to get my Cammand III unit to convert the Vampire only to discover that it was relatively worthless. The only ability that he retained was the ability to gift Vampirism to level 6+ units which was also worthless since they cannont use the feast ability either. Capturing a Vampire feels a bit like starting a Pyramid scheme. Each unit with Vampirism can gift Vampirism to other units who can in turn gift it to still others with really no benefit to anyone. It's the vampiric Amway!

That is very much intended I think. I remember reading that the vampire 'feast' ability is now dependent upon the unit BEING Calabim.

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