Version 2.6 discussion

Yes, you can keep all kinds of ideas coming. If I add negative traits, we'd need as many of them as positive traits. I have downloaded tsentom's python traits and with the help of those little mods I can figure out some new trait configurations as well.

@Argroww

Nice idea, I'll have to think about it ;)

Last night I tested also worker's ability to join to city (one feature that I miss from previous civ games) - the way I tried it was that I used them as great people so it added one new specialist (regular citizen) to city when joined city. Downside was that player can't change those citizens (since it's like great people)... so I removed after my test as I thought it would have been bit overpowering as you could increase one city's production endlessly...

hmm mite be able to do this...look into the events, cause some of them add or subtract citizens from a city so maybe you can use that bit of programming to add workers/ settlers to city
 
i do have one suggestion tho well actually lots but the one is a new corp a , ignore spelling please, pharmacuetical cmpany that gives so much health but at a huge monetary cost but also doesn't compete against other corps...only suggest cause if you have one of the food corps for long enough no matter what you do those cities stay unhealthy...havint made it too far past modern yet tho so maybe it gets better
 
Is salt set to appear on marsh tiles? If not, it should be, because collecting salt from evaporated water along the shores of salt marshes was one of the primary means of getting it. It would also be nice if you could make a sea-based variant of it (such is the case with oil).

EDIT: Nevermind, it does. Strange that it took me this long to notice it...
 
Here are some ideas for power plants...

Power Plants

Coal Power Plant (Civ4)
Shale Power Plant (Civ4 - Japan Unique Building)
Nuclear Power Plant (Civ4)
Hydro Power Plant (Civ4)

Oil Power Plant (RoM)

Geothermal Power Plant (New) - A green power plant possibly only located next to peaks.
Wind Power Plant (New) - A green power plant that works best on hilltop cities.
Solar Array Power Plant (New) - A green power plant which works best in desert biomes.
Tidal Power Plant (New) - A green power plant only available for coastal cities.
Biomass Power Plant (New) - A semi-green power plant that reduces trash.

Also it would be neat if you could have more than one power plant in a city. That way the more type you add the more power boost you could get. Thus a Solar or Wind Power Plant might not give all that much power alone but together they could equal one dirty power plant like coal or oil.
 
hmm the powerplants seem like a good idea maybe have the wind and solar usable early like with plastics but not very good but get more powerful as time goes on say in the late modern early future eras
 
i've played 2.5 for a few games now, and have some suggestions.

1. i feel that instead of adding more features, it may be better to balance out the existing game. i never thought i'd say this, but i think ROM already has too many buildings/units/techs.

2. a common suggestion is to reduce the huge number of modern age units that the AI builds. with the many production bonus buildings available, it is very easy to produce moder age units at 1 per turn per city. i would suggest ramping up the hammer costs of late units.

3. mounted units are crippled a bit too much. everyone starts with spearmen, and pikes have been buffed, so mounted units already start out at a disadvantage. on top of that, the mounted infantry - heavy cavlary line is even weaker than vanilla horse units. i've also found myself being able to build knights way before heavy cavalry, which makes heavy cavalry useless. the tech order there needs some adjustments.

4. starting in late-industrial / modern age, techs are researched too quickly but anyone with a large empire. at the rate of one tech every 1 or 2 turns, units become obsolete very fast, while cities just can't build the new buildings fast enough. tech cost needs to be increased several fold in the later ages.

5. certain civics are almost useless. liberal and secular give penalties to other civics, and that makes later civics in their lines very unappealing, for example.
 
Units ought to be expensive and rare. For this purpose, make an option box called "Expensive units" in which creating a unit takes one population out of a city and costs 10 % of the empires tax income every turn to upkeep. Let units be built in 1 to 10 years depending if it's a warrior or a battleship, like in real life. -1 pop and 10 % upkeep ought to apply both to human and AI.

The giant and gigantic global highlands with massive continents and low water don't create a big unified land with ocean around it, mountain ridges that separate areas and maybe one or two small islands. The bigger ones only create a maps without ocean. That should be fixed, because I find this is the most diverse and tactical map formula.
 
Drat, my login cookie seems to time out when I'm typing my reply. Maybe that's a sign to not post?

I've yet to get right to the end-game, instead generally restarting around 1000 AD because I hit errors with my save-games or restart as another civ. Thus, my comments on late-game are based on reading what some other people have said, and thinking 'wouldn't X be cool?' to myself.

1) Costs of research and production should steadily go up to a peak level, after which the newer buildings and civics that increase research and production simply maintain, or (very) slightly increase the production speed. Thus, at this peak point you're able to churn things out at a very efficient level, but not instantaneously. However, since things are becoming ever more advanced your old equipment becomes more obsolete, and the longer you don't add to them (ie, new research/production buildings) the slower your research and production will be. A sort-of aside to this might be to start the modern era a bit earlier, making it last longer. Since things won't be getting produced as quickly in it, it won't result in uber-mega military or research, just the prolonging of an interesting era, maybe making the corporations be able to have more effect for a longer period of time too.

2) Blockading of land tiles similar to blockading sea tiles. Islands surrounded by sea can be crippled and starved via a blockade, so why not the land tiles too? This would be more like your traditional seige of a city. Instead of stopping production in one puny tile, you're able to stop it in a number of tiles (perhaps a radius equal to the speed of your fastest unit).

There's mention of a 'Fixed Borders' mod in this forum that does something like this, where a unit 'claims' lands for it's homeland until they're dislodged, depriving the originally owning civ of the benefits of the tiles they've claimed. This can tie into what was mentioned earlier in this thread: Units costing food on top of money (which I support). A special civilian unit called a 'Supply Train', perhaps, could be sent with your military. It would have a finite supply of food for the units to use, and would supplement that with whatever food the surrounding claimed tiles provide. There might be a better version of the 'Supply Train' that can manufacture things using those tiles too, though I can't think of what that would be called. This would result in a 'mini mobile city', feeding and healing the troops, perhaps even making a limited selection of things (seige engines, walls, healing hut?).

3) Work boats should be capturable like land workers. Settlers might perhaps be capturable as well, though I'm less sold on that idea, unless you could capture them, settle a city, and then have their nationality start as what they were initially, like a captured city. It would be as prone to flipping as any captured city of it's initial size, and considered a colony, of sorts.

4) Prisoners of War - Vehicular units would be split in two. The prisoners, which are the operators, and the military unit being rewarded to the capturing nation as their own military unit. The prisoners are the soldiers that are now stripped of defenses and combat ability, which need to be guarded by units or a city and can be sold or traded via diplomacy. Killing a surrendering unit would be greatly frowned on internationally, though perhaps only if some resolution was passed about 'rules of warfare' (can't thing of the blasted real-life term for it). Despotic civs, as one civic example, wouldn't care if you killed the captives, but anyone fighting you would know to fight to the death. Prisoners of war might have a small chance each turn of escaping and either wreaking some havoc or escaping. A pop-up menu would give you an option list similar to the espionage one. You could have them spy on the city, then try to escape to provide you details. Attempt to poison the water, assassinate a unit, free others, or just escape. Each has a percentage chance of escape back to your homelands. Thus, there's a benefit and a negative to keeping P.O.W.s.

5) Expand Terrain in Civipedia to say what can or can't be built on it - Right now, I go into Civipedia to see if I can build anything on desert or tundra or an oasis, and it tells me nothing. No 'buildable improvements are:' This falls more under some other mod's jurisdiction, perhaps.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings. Hopefully they're not utterly ******** and give at least one idea to someone with a brain (and modding knowledge). ;-)
 
I have been very excited about v2.6 and don't want to seem pushy, but when would you expect it to come out Zappara? I love this mod!! :D
Well, it won't be ready for while but I've been thinking to make some kind of test version this week (not beta, kind of alpha patch) as there's so many things now that I think I'd need few testers to give feedback about some of the changes I've made to get better balance to the final patch version. I'll try to post current change log tomorrow so at least you can see what kind of changes have been already made (for example unit costs have gone up drastically for later era units, up to 4x than in v2.5 ;)). I also like BUG mod's new features, field of view slider and scoreboard shows now lot more civs :) There's still lot to do, I haven't yet added few random events that I've been wanting to test out (for example prisoners of war: ransom, release, execute them...) and some unit changes are still left to do as well. Yesterday I finished reading through v2.4, v2.5, v2.6 feedback and main mod threads and hopefully all the bugs mentioned in them should now been fixed and many of the suggestions have been included in the patch.
 
Spoiler :
Version 2.6

Spoiler :


Cool! Religious promotions! New traits!

Some questions:

- I didn't understand very well the changes about naval movement... Does it increases the number of turns necessary for wooden ships to travel across the waters? If it does, I disagree with it, because I think it's is yet too much time spent to caravels go through oceans.
- Do you still consider applying my idea of new city culture levels?
- Do you plan to merge permanently the Fixed Borders and Abandon City mods into RoM (after tests, of course)? Because I like it!

And some requests:

Could salt spam in coastal tiles, and more frequently?
Could unit's upgrade costs be increased, as production of new ones was?
Could be Global Warming be simulated as coastal tile flooding (kind of terraforming)?

I'm really glad that Rise of Mankind is still being updated!!! :king:
 
LOTS upon LOTS of changes, hope it doesn't offset gameplay too significantly.
 
I'm glad to see this up. I like it a lot, but I have a few concerns.

If you're going to insist on not giving Drill to Gunpowder and Hitech units, then I think it would be good to give Protective a small boost somehow, since the ability to progress along the Drill line is oft cited as Pro's greatest strength.

I hate to blow my own horn, but you might want to rework the fincanial trait to give bonuses to wealth instead of commerce like I did, or remove it from Mansa Musa, because it along with the Scientific trait might make him too advacned too quickly (yes, I know I was the one who suggested he have it). Of course, I haven't actually tested this yet...

With all due respect, Humanitarian isn't a particularly innovative trait. It's basically and amalgam of Organized, Expansive, and Charismatic. I think a good idea would be to make it more unique, though I don't really have any ideas offhand.
 
Tried out the RoM 2.6 Alpha Test today and i must say it seems to flow much smoother than the previous version. It felt a lot more balanced.

Likes

o Weather on the sea.

o New Icons such as the healers hut, pioneer, etc

Problems

o Is Heroic Epic says it requires a barracks but when you get to the tech that allows garrison you no longer can build a barracks. So are you not suppose to be able to build Heroic Epic anymore or are you going to change it so it requires barracks OR garrison?

Ideas

o A Petard/Kamikaze/Suicide Bomber unit that can be made cheaper that say a catepult or cannon but can take down city defenses at the price of of the unit dying. Perhaps it could start out as a Petard (Renaissance) unit based on gunpowder then upgrade to Kamikaze (Industrial)with TNT explosives and then have a modern unit with Suicide Bomber (Modern) with Plastic explosives. I have no idea what a future unit would be, maybe like a Vortex Robot that can implode.
 
I can see that I am going to have to rethink my tile improvement strategy - my Civ almost collapsed because I was building mines for the future forgetting that they cause unhappiness even if they are not in use. :)
 
Cool! Religious promotions! New traits!

Some questions:

- I didn't understand very well the changes about naval movement... Does it increases the number of turns necessary for wooden ships to travel across the waters? If it does, I disagree with it, because I think it's is yet too much time spent to caravels go through oceans.
- Do you still consider applying my idea of new city culture levels?
- Do you plan to merge permanently the Fixed Borders and Abandon City mods into RoM (after tests, of course)? Because I like it!

And some requests:

Could salt spam in coastal tiles, and more frequently?
Could unit's upgrade costs be increased, as production of new ones was?
Could be Global Warming be simulated as coastal tile flooding (kind of terraforming)?
Naval movement is now slowed down in early game so exploration takes longer BUT with promotions you can more than double wooden ship movement so once you get to medieval/renaissance era when you can explore ocean plots your ships should be able to move faster than in RoM 2.5 - this might need some tweaking still so let me know how you feel about these changes after some testing ;)

Culture levels - yes, I've been thinking about it and it's still on to-do list. However it seems that it's not possible to make culture levels spread around city like you suggested. Every new culture level stage increases on all plots by 1 to every direction, there's no partial increase amounts available.

Fixed borders probably not permanently (it's nice feature though) but abandon city feature maybe, I've tried to merge it to new BUG version but so far I haven't got it to work but if I get few python problems solved then it might end up into the patch.

LOTS upon LOTS of changes, hope it doesn't offset gameplay too significantly.
Well, it just needs some testing and tweaking some values after tests... ;)

If you're going to insist on not giving Drill to Gunpowder and Hitech units, then I think it would be good to give Protective a small boost somehow, since the ability to progress along the Drill line is oft cited as Pro's greatest strength.

I hate to blow my own horn, but you might want to rework the fincanial trait to give bonuses to wealth instead of commerce like I did, or remove it from Mansa Musa, because it along with the Scientific trait might make him too advacned too quickly (yes, I know I was the one who suggested he have it). Of course, I haven't actually tested this yet...

With all due respect, Humanitarian isn't a particularly innovative trait. It's basically and amalgam of Organized, Expansive, and Charismatic. I think a good idea would be to make it more unique, though I don't really have any ideas offhand.
About Drill line - first of I have to say that I've had lots of problems with promotions past month; all sort of weird crashes occurred in different parts of the mod after I had changed promotions - caused some headache to figure it out (at time I thought there's maximum limit how many promotions the game can handle). Usually every time I edit promotions xml file, I get weird problems so it takes time to make changes to them and test them out so that there isn't any problems present after it - the game is bit "reluctant" to accept certain promotions for certain unitcombat groups. But I'll see what I can do - there's now so many new promotions that it'll take some time to test and tweak their values.

Treats can be modified after some tests...

Likes

o Weather on the sea.

o New Icons such as the healers hut, pioneer, etc

Problems

o Is Heroic Epic says it requires a barracks but when you get to the tech that allows garrison you no longer can build a barracks. So are you not suppose to be able to build Heroic Epic anymore or are you going to change it so it requires barracks OR garrison?

Ideas

o A Petard/Kamikaze/Suicide Bomber unit that can be made cheaper that say a catepult or cannon but can take down city defenses at the price of of the unit dying. Perhaps it could start out as a Petard (Renaissance) unit based on gunpowder then upgrade to Kamikaze (Industrial)with TNT explosives and then have a modern unit with Suicide Bomber (Modern) with Plastic explosives. I have no idea what a future unit would be, maybe like a Vortex Robot that can implode.
Weather on sea definetaly requires tweaking (post reports how many storms are left once you get to industrial era). It has been very hard to tweak this terrain feature.

I'll change Heroic Epic, just haven't got that far in changes list yet... Did some building changes last night, still lot to check. :crazyeye:

I've thought it's enough just to have Kamikaze promotion. Let's see what others think about kamikaze units.

I can see that I am going to have to rethink my tile improvement strategy - my Civ almost collapsed because I was building mines for the future forgetting that they cause unhappiness even if they are not in use. :)
I haven't yet decided if unhappiness should be on regular Mine and Shaft Mine or only for Shaft Mine. If it was only Shaft Mine, then unhappiness would gradually increase for city when Mines upgrade to Shaft Mines. Currently it's on Mines as well just because I want to see what you all think about - can you balance your civilization early game so that you can keep your cities happy? ;)
 
Thanks for the quick reply Zappara.

About naval movement: Is it possible to give promotions according to tiles traveled? Because there's 2 ways of getting the promotions Navigation. By battle or by buildings like naval academy. Giving more speed makes sense for the second case, but not for the first one. Ex.: Travelling 50 tiles, the ship gets Navigation I; 200 tiles Navigation II; 500 tiles Navigation III.

About Fixed Borders: Could you merge to the download file and create a command in GlobalDefinesAlt that turns on and off?

About City Culture Levels: With Fixed Borders Mod, the levels' border design, which is the second part of my idea, becomes irrelevant. But the first part, which is postponing the cultural victory and giving more cultural uniqueness to the cities, is still interesting.
 
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