Best Star Trek series
- Thread starter Gwynnja
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Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
The Official Star Trek Chronology: The History of the Future, by Michael and Denise Okuda. Established that only on-screen non-animated material was canon prior to that point. Afterwards, the chronology is canon, you can add to it but you can't violate it. Roddenberry himself said so before he died - not that Roddenberry didn't violate stuff repeatedly himself, but he invented the damn thing.
All of these episodes are stupid beyond belief.
I was waiting for that name to come up. DS9 seems to be a shout-out to this classic, epic scifi. But the episodic format of the Star Trek series is just in a different category than B5.
warpus
In pork I trust
DS 9 is the best. TNG has the better captain, but suffers from Wesley and Riker.
TNG is really carried by Picard, Data and Worf. La Forge, Crusher and Troi are okay but still somewhat mediocre. If they had kept Pulawski on it might have been better.
Considering Odo, Kira, Quark, Garak, Bashir, O'Brian and Dukat the cast of DS 9 is just so much better. It's also has a long-term story to tell.
It's hard to compare to Babylon 5, though. While B5 has many highlights the entire Season 5 is really weak, Sheridan was a bad choice compared to Sinclair and the resolution of the Shadow War was cheesy and unbelievable. OTH the Earth Civil War and the Narn/Centauri Conflict are great.
TNG is really carried by Picard, Data and Worf. La Forge, Crusher and Troi are okay but still somewhat mediocre. If they had kept Pulawski on it might have been better.
Considering Odo, Kira, Quark, Garak, Bashir, O'Brian and Dukat the cast of DS 9 is just so much better. It's also has a long-term story to tell.
It's hard to compare to Babylon 5, though. While B5 has many highlights the entire Season 5 is really weak, Sheridan was a bad choice compared to Sinclair and the resolution of the Shadow War was cheesy and unbelievable. OTH the Earth Civil War and the Narn/Centauri Conflict are great.
SS-18 ICBM
Oscillator
I prefer the original.
Huayna Capac357
Deity
TNG FTW! (I like three letter acronyms 
)
)
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
That's because B5 was planned out in advance - most of it - whereas Star Trek is a more conventional, 'let's make it up as we go along' type show.
I believe it's in the foreword of the book in question. Roddenberry had died by the time it was released, but did write some stuff for it beforehand.
Pulaski was nothing but a cheap imitation of McCoy. She even had the same transporter phobia.
It's very easy to compare a show that blatantly stole almost its entire first season from Joe Straczynki's outlines. He offered B5 to Paramount in 1987 when he was working for them and was turned down. Years later, with Straczynki unable to sell the idea and looking for a replacement for TNG, Paramount suddenly found the inspiration to create a new Star Trek series featuring:
- A space station instead of a ship as the main location
- A female first officer
- A shapeshifter
- A previously unseen focus on religion
- All-powerful energy beings who were the gods of a material culture's religion
- A mysterious enemy whose true identity was not revealed until the third season
- A commanding officer with the rank of Commander instead of Captain
- Said commanding officer was a widower with a complicated on-again, off-again sexual relationship with an old flame
- A much darker theme than any previous Star Trek
- A wormhole near the station where ships came through to see the station, and where ships from the station went through
- An uneasy truce between two species recently at war with one another, differing groups of whom inhabited the station and who did not care for one another at all
- An invasion and occupation of the homeworld of the victimised species of the these two by the stronger species in a later season, after this militant species had allied itself with the mysterious enemy
- The militant species turning on its new ally, resultiing in its destruction and the bombardment of its homeworld
- A large central trading area in the station, including a bar
- A security force with a separate uniform from the regular troops
- The temporary replacement of the democratically elected government of Earth by a fascist military dictatorship
- The alliance of former enemies under the command of the series lead in order to finally defeat the mysterious enemy
- The death of a major and very popular character in the next-to-last season
Sheridan was meant to be less cool than Sinclair at first. We weren't supposed to know whether Sheridan could be trusted or not, hence his shady dealings with General Hague.
The fifth season was weak in parts - though it still brought the awesome in terms of Lita going off the deep end after Byron suicided and the uber-greatness of The Fall of Centauri Prime - because the show looked like it wouldn't get a fifth season and Straczynki wound it up. Then TNT picked it up for a fifth, and Joe had to write about half a season of new material on the fly.
The weakest period was actually the end of the fourth season, because they rushed the crap out of it. Sheridan's capture after being betrayed by his own best friend - probably the single best episode of any television show, ever - was supposed to be the Season 4 finale, and would have been epic in such a role. Instead it was episode 17 of 22, and the show suffered because of it. Still, it dominates DS9 even though the latter was ripping it off from the get-go and had more of a budget for its pilot than B5 had for any single season.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
I bought a complete DVD set of Deep Space Nine recently, so I am now watching it as time goes by. I am in the middle of the 3rd season now and it is only getting better.
DS9 is probably the black sheep of the Trek family, but I definitely like it the most - darkest themes, war, complex story arcs, good characters...
DS9 is probably the black sheep of the Trek family, but I definitely like it the most - darkest themes, war, complex story arcs, good characters...
Maybe, but even an imitation of McCoy was still better than the blandness that was Dr. Crusher.
Many of these points are really weak. Number 3 for example. Or number 6. The Dominion was never particulary mysterious. Just another major power the Federation came into contatct with while exploring the Gamma Quadrant. While DS 9 did certainly pick up some of the same themes, the main plot is still very different. Besides, I never cared about who stole from who, as long as it was done well.
What are you talking about? The way Sheridan was portrayed it was clear he was a good guy after the first episode he appears.
Besides, he never actually reached Sinclair.
Best episode? Overstatement much. It wasn't surprising or shocking at all - and the bar scene was cheesy. And Garibaldi/Sheridan were never "best friends".
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
True enough.
Vorlons and Del Varner both had a nasty habit of shapeshifting. And the Dominion was mysterious right up until we figured out they were shapshifters. The main plot is different because it didn't have one until they recognised that major interstellar wars were doing well over on B5. They then promptly began one themselves.
Apparently intrigue isn't your thing. Sure, he was a nice guy. But who's side was he on? Was he one of Clarke's men? What was all this talk about a coup? The whole point was to make the fans think; "I WANT to like this guy, but can he really be trusted?" And he was a totally different character to Sinclair. Sinclair was a thinker, not a fighter. It's comparing apples to cats. The only similarite was their position and initials.
Not surprising at all, I agree; may have been if it weren't so rushed. But how can you not appreciate that camera-work? Strobe-lighting, percussion, that fight-scene kicked arse. How in the hell is something that's completely new, original and unique cheesy?
And Garibaldi and Sheridan most certainly were best buds, along with the rest of the inner circle. You also apparently forget what happened to Garibaldi in the final episode of Season 1. That's what makes it shocking. Bester explaining the entire Garibaldi arc in the tunnel, the juxtaposition of the newsreader with Sheridan getting his arse kicked, the excellent acting of everyone involved. The only better acting in the series was in Sleeping in Light. It's just fantastic television on all levels. Story, acting, direction. Pity it wasn't the cliffhanger it was intended to be.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
I think it is pretty obvious that DS9 stole a lot from B5. That doesn't make it a bad series, fortunately. In time, both series took a different course; the central motive of B5 is very different.
In B5, it's about Galaxy-wide ideological struggle between two ancient races, millions of years older than humanity and other younger races. It's not about the war itself, because if either of the two races (Vorlons and Shadows) wanted it, they could obliterate anybody else, which is what almost happened in the end.
Secondary motives are civil wars in Earth Alliance, Minbari Federation and the confict between telepaths and mundanes.
DS9 has a VERY different feel to it. It's more like "WW2 in space", a story of a first real war the Federation has ever fought. It takes the Star Trek universe and explores it in depth for the first time.
I like both series a lot, and I don't really feel a need to be bitter about the fact that DS9 creators stole few ideas. In fact, I am happy: instead of just one, we have two excellent sci-fi series
In B5, it's about Galaxy-wide ideological struggle between two ancient races, millions of years older than humanity and other younger races. It's not about the war itself, because if either of the two races (Vorlons and Shadows) wanted it, they could obliterate anybody else, which is what almost happened in the end.
Secondary motives are civil wars in Earth Alliance, Minbari Federation and the confict between telepaths and mundanes.
DS9 has a VERY different feel to it. It's more like "WW2 in space", a story of a first real war the Federation has ever fought. It takes the Star Trek universe and explores it in depth for the first time.
I like both series a lot, and I don't really feel a need to be bitter about the fact that DS9 creators stole few ideas. In fact, I am happy: instead of just one, we have two excellent sci-fi series
Mark Young
Formerly Sir Eric
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I can't believe that Voyager hasn't gotten more votes than what it has!
My preferences, in order,
1) Voyager- I liked the uniqueness of voyager. I liked the overall plot and Characters. Though Janeway irks me somewhat with her recklessness and the way she is willing to risk her crew's lives over seemingly unnecessary risks. The Dr is very amusing. I'm like the interplay between the characters. Though, I think they went the wrong way is making 7 of 9 as attractive as she is. It detracts attention away from the complexity of her character, and focus' it onto her other more visible features.
2) Enterprise - Yes, you read correctly. The premise for Enterprise was excellent. It's good to see a Sci-fi program deal with a more relatable context, without all the wonderful technological gadgetry that seems to 'magically' dismiss any obstacle when you tweak a coupling here, or a powercell there.
3) The Original Series - Self explanatory. It was a unique show to watch as a kid. Who wouldn't like watching Kirk fight slow motion with the Gorn?
4) The Next Generation - I never really got into it. Not sure why.
5) Deep Space Nine - It was fine in the first series and the last series, but everything else was very mundane. I would have liked it if they explored the Dominion wars and the Breen in greater detail, as well as away from DS9 for sometime.
My preferences, in order,
1) Voyager- I liked the uniqueness of voyager. I liked the overall plot and Characters. Though Janeway irks me somewhat with her recklessness and the way she is willing to risk her crew's lives over seemingly unnecessary risks. The Dr is very amusing. I'm like the interplay between the characters. Though, I think they went the wrong way is making 7 of 9 as attractive as she is. It detracts attention away from the complexity of her character, and focus' it onto her other more visible features.
2) Enterprise - Yes, you read correctly. The premise for Enterprise was excellent. It's good to see a Sci-fi program deal with a more relatable context, without all the wonderful technological gadgetry that seems to 'magically' dismiss any obstacle when you tweak a coupling here, or a powercell there.
3) The Original Series - Self explanatory. It was a unique show to watch as a kid. Who wouldn't like watching Kirk fight slow motion with the Gorn?
4) The Next Generation - I never really got into it. Not sure why.
5) Deep Space Nine - It was fine in the first series and the last series, but everything else was very mundane. I would have liked it if they explored the Dominion wars and the Breen in greater detail, as well as away from DS9 for sometime.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
Voyager? Star Trek would have been better of if it had NEVER been produced.
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
Oh I have no real problem with DS9, and it's my second-favourite Trek. But I took exception to the claim that it was uncomparable to the show it was stealing from before, during and after its run.I think it is pretty obvious that DS9 stole a lot from B5. That doesn't make it a bad series, fortunately. In time, both series took a different course; the central motive of B5 is very different.
In B5, it's about Galaxy-wide ideological struggle between two ancient races, millions of years older than humanity and other younger races. It's not about the war itself, because if either of the two races (Vorlons and Shadows) wanted it, they could obliterate anybody else, which is what almost happened in the end.
Secondary motives are civil wars in Earth Alliance, Minbari Federation and the confict between telepaths and mundanes.
DS9 has a VERY different feel to it. It's more like "WW2 in space", a story of a first real war the Federation has ever fought. It takes the Star Trek universe and explores it in depth for the first time.
I like both series a lot, and I don't really feel a need to be bitter about the fact that DS9 creators stole few ideas. In fact, I am happy: instead of just one, we have two excellent sci-fi series
And surely I'm not the only person who thinks Jeri Ryan aint all that?
Winner
Diverse in Unity
I am afraid I don't understand.
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