Dune Wars Mod

Keldath said:
***
this might be related,
when getting on the world builder, and choosing to place deep desert and desert waste - it lays out regular sand sea and for desert waste a wierd messed terrain, doent bother me at all, but still might be connected to the sea area you mentioned.

I updated the map scripts (new Archipelago script is included in patch I released yesterday, other map scripts will come soon). I removed all ocean plot generation from map script, it's all land from the beginning. That didn't fixed the settler ai behaviour (minfoundvalue hack also works with old map scripts I think) but it somehow generates hills and peaks in the desert. :goodjob: And I fixed that graphic bug you get in world builder when placing deep desert or desert waste.

In patch1 the folder for main menu art is named mainmenu, should be "main menu".

davidallen said:
I also do not understand how immigration applies to dune, perhaps koma can tell us more about what he was thinking when he suggested it.
Keep it simple. Make an event that adds population to the city with most eg. culture/happiness every x turns. It's a reward for good empire/city management.
And maybe make space port a requirement.

davidallen said:
I know that Johny and keldath are working on a new dll which has fewer mods, and more woc stuff. Is it possible for you to give your modified code to johny for a merge? Even if it is just a hack for now, I think it is pretty important to have this in there.

Next patch will have source code included. In last patch I just edited CvPlayerAI::AI_getMinFoundValue line 17710: int iValue = 20.

davidallen said:
In the longer term, is it possible for you to attach the new minvalue to a new xml parameter, say in globalsettings.xml? This way we could tweak the value from xml instead of recompiling.
I can do this.

darkedone02 said:
The recommanded city placement don't give alot of good places for me to build (and I always go for the recommanded place).

That blue circles are the city sites where ai would place cities. Try this patch. It will add more blue circles. :)
 
david,

i dont foresee any problems with your code,
great to know your making progress.

koma,

great, im excited on your coming patch,
i cant wait to finalize the terrain for the mod.

the hills and mountains on desert shouldnt be too hard right?
maybe through the terrain you can just name the terrain it can appear on.

an immigration event can be nice too, maybe david allen will do ssomething later on.


making the minfoundlevel via xml is a very good idea.

david,
yeah o saw the future era units, i will use some units form there, it seems coyote is adding art to some of them,
there are some very good models that suits dune.

johny,
great job man :))
 
I saw some talk about images...

I know this russian resource and it has some pictures as wallpapers. Some images may be used for leaderheads/wonders/icons:
http://www.thedune.ru/wallpapers/cod.html

If you don't have photoshop skills and want some parts of some image, dare to ask here.

Also.

Irulan:
Spoiler :
irulan2.jpg


Spoiler :
225062.jpg


Feyd

Spoiler :
42832867.jpg


Spoiler :
hark_broth.jpg


Spoiler :
dsting.jpg


Spoiler :
movie_magazine_feyd.jpg
 
Should I use the new Irulan image for the leaderhead then?

I compiled the dll. Sent to keldath. All good to go I think. But did not fix the missing Civilization errors in python. DCM will not work as a module unless the XML is changed because of the removed air combat categories. Anyway I did not split BUG from the rest of mod options. Was more complicated than I had imagined. I added a new BUG button instead of having the flashing Alt+Ctrl+O option.
 
Another huge post below... the first few comments are for the new mapscript.

I have done a few runs with the newest archipelago mapscript by koma13. I have a few comments on this.

34. There are peaks and hills of type "desert waste" now. That could be either good or bad. But graphically, there is not enough difference between peak/hill of this terrain type vs another terrain type. For peaks, desert waste and other terrains are indistinguishable. This is a big difference, since most units cannot move onto desert waste. So I have to mouseover each peak to find if I can move units there. If you leave this terrain combination there, please add some different graphics so we can see the difference. Same thing applies to hills; once you learn to look for it, desert waste hills are a little more "gold"; but we need more difference. Personally, I would prefer desert waste and deep desert to be guaranteed flat; it seems more dunelike.

35. It seems like there are way fewer resources, especially food, compared to the previous mapscript. I did not run the previous mapscript side by side with this one, but it "feels" this way. In games with the current mapscript, I feel like it is almost impossible to get growing. If I am lucky, in the first 3-4 turns I can find one plot with bonus food like blue tubers or wheat (sand verbena), then I can put my colony near that. But that plot rarely has bonus hammers nearby and a lot of the BFC squares have one food, or two food and no hammer. Do you agree that startup seems too hard with the current version?

The following are some ideas which I have tried to start discussion about in other threads.

36. I find the idea of building roads across the desert very non-dune-like. At least 2-3 people have tried to make a building, like an airport or spaceport, which automatically connects all cities within a certain range. I think this is more dune-like. We could have a lower level building "airport" which connects within 20 squares, and a higher level building "spaceport" which connects you to the whole planet or some longer range. There is a minimod at this thread, but it causes crashes. I have pm'd the related people on the thread, let's see if we can get something stable.

37. I have mentioned before there is no pressure to conserve water. I thought that if we could have windtraps and reservoirs serve as a source of water, we could put back the irrigation restriction that farms must have water. I don't think there is a way to do this today, but I have started this thread to see if we can find a way.

The following comments are on the game, not the mapscript. I played a game at a higher difficulty than I usually do (Monarch instead of Noble ... I am no expert) and got my first invasion thoroughly trashed by Fenring. But I collected a lot more feedback.

38. In terrain/civ4improvementinfos.xml, there are two words spelled wrong: Parmiter => Perimeter, Compaund => Compound.

39. Is it worthwhile to take the improvement chains which are lvl 1, lvl 2, lvl 3 and instead call them I, II, III? If I could think of more interesting names that would be even better, but other places such as promotions use I, II, III.

40. The graphic for the water improvement is not bad. But I think the terrain graphic for oasis is very pretty, and since it is rare on Dune, it may be a nice graphical improvement. Can you put the oasis graphic onto the water improvement?

41. The "jungle" terrain spice tubers is too tall, or else tribal villages are too short. If there is a tribal village inside a spice tubers terrain, it is completely invisible. My scout kept showing a blue circle there but I thought it was a bug. Turns out there is an invisible village among the tubers.

42. It seems there is no reason to ever build cottages. At least, I have autoplayed a few games from start to 400 turns, and none of the AI's *ever* builds cottages. I am not an expert player myself, but it is possible that you may be able to make some tweaks by looking at the save-game. It uses "patch 1" and also the latest mapscript from koma13. Due to filesize (600K) I have stored it externally:

http://jendaveallen.com/fury-road/dunewars-huge-a-t400.zip

43. I saw a water improvement on a spice jungle terrain. Shouldn't that cause some kind of temporal paradox or something? :-)

44. There seem to be several problems with the land transport. For one thing, I was able to load a light hover onto a patrol hover. I don't use vanilla ocean transport very much, but I found the display very confusing when I loaded units onto a hover. Suppose in one square I have a hover with two infantries loaded, and another two infantries which are not loaded. So five units are displayed in the button row. When I move the mouse over one of the infantry buttons, I cannot tell which are in the hover and which are not. If I move the loaded hover, the infantry inside still show up in the "unmoved units" list so when I use "w" to step to the next unmoved unit, it keeps coming back to the loaded infantries. If we are going to use land transport a lot, it is worthwhile to investigate if these are bugs which can be fixed in the xml, or if they are fundamental.

45. The hover patrol unit graphic is too large. When it is the active unit, you cannot see the green active circle underneath it. So I kept losing track of which was the active unit.

46. Arid terrain has a +50% defensive bonus. Other related terrains do not have a defensive bonus, and I can't think of any in-game reason. Perhaps a cut and paste error.

47. The LH graphic for the navigator guy seems very flat. There is almost no contrast, especially on the button. I searched to find another graphic we could use. Please find attached a proposed new navigator and button.

48. Thinking about the likely costs of conquering distant civs, it may be that we should move "Enables Vassal States" earlier in the tech tree. For Fury Road, I wanted to encourage vassalism above conquest, and maybe that fits here also. I can see a dune civ agreeing to be a vassal. Right now this is enabled by Castes, which is not so far down in the tech tree, but maybe to encourage vassalism, the vassalism part should be moved to an earlier tech.
 
I have not played it really mostly just merging stuff recently. I will look at the images.

But ya something needs to be done about routes. I wish there was someway of just collecting space and returning it to a city.

How about something like cottages for spice? That the longer an improvement stands it grows on its on over time? Probably bad idea. At least would add a bonus for protecting your spice operations. As for connecting it to a trade network I don't know.

Edit: Here is the navguild LH button from david without the border on it. More like the others I did.
 
I'm really pleased that this mod is happening since I'm definitely a Dune fan.

I thought I'd see if I could help you out a bit so I dug out Emperor:Battle for Dune to see if there was anything useable in there. Sadly, there no way of getting the 3d stuff out - it is in some long lost XBF format - even the viewer/editor that existed has disappeared, but the textures are tga so I've bundled them all up and uploaded them. Probably a lot of it isn't useable but there are some interesting bits: some landscape textures (I see you are busy with the maps), some nice faction icons, some general spacey stuff (nebulas and the like - could be used for backdrops or something) and some elements that might be good for texturing units. Here's some examples:

Desert Textures they're not all this highres unfortunately.
attachment.php

attachment.php


Faction Icons (they have transparent backgrounds so ignore the rough edges - that's just tga -> jpg roughness)
Fremen:
attachment.php

Harkonnen:
attachment.php


The only other salvageable thing is the music. I've uploaded the Atreides for now. There is a soundtrack for Harkonnen and Ordos too. You should really use a clip of Brian Eno's Prophecy Theme for the opening menu though. It's a beautiful piece that really captures the essence of Dune in my opinion.

Download TGAs
Download Atreides Music
 
Thanks the land textures might have some use. I think those are the present faction icons in the mod.
 
OK, here is a zip containing the completed sandworm, sandstorm and thumper code. I am not able to create a zipfile with the right paths and just these files. So here are the file locations (should be obvious):

thumper.dds => assets\art\interface\buttons\action
cveventmanager.py => assets\python
cvgameutils.py => assets\python
cvmaininterface.py => assets\python\screens
bugeventmanager.py => assets\python\bug

No other files should need to be edited, except for removing the TerrainImpassables on UNIT_WORM1 as I mentioned in point 30 (post 97 in the thread). It would be nice to also use the sandstorm and sandworm buttons in post 97 of this thread, but not required.

Once you have the files put together, bring up a game, click next turn 1-2 times, and then view the whole map. You should see a few worms and a few storms; look in the deep desert. Keep the screen on one of the worms and click next turn 1-2 times to make sure the worm moves; same for the storm.

To test thumpers, give any unit the thumper promotion. You should see a thumper action button. Click the button and drop a thumper, then watch it for 5 turns. It should go away. It may attract a worm. You can also place a thumper using WB within 2 squares of a worm, and you will be almost guaranteed that the worm will attack the thumper.

If you get any python errors or you don't see the above behavior, let me know and we can work it out.

Next, there is a possibility that the airport mod I mentioned a few posts above is actually working, so I will try that out. It will require sdk merging, so let's not plan that for this weekend's release. (EDIT: updates in that thread. It is not working. Sigh.)

Longer term, there is more I "should" do with the worm AI. It does not treat any units differently, such as being less likely to attack units with stillsuit promotion. Right now my code does not cover the worm attacking, only moving; I let the regular animal AI handle attacking.
 
davidlallen!!

excellent work david!

i will instert it to the patch,
right now im working on replacing units models to those in the new future unit graphics,
when i finish ill upload the patch again, with the work youve done so far.


i saw the post on the airport,
looks promising.
if it will work, we will remove the roads, and we will develop some buildings that will raise movement level for units as compensation.
 
would love any help you can give.

I would definitely like to contribute something to the unit art. I've done a lot more human units than vehicles until now, but I'm getting to know them too. As you say in the OP the mod needs to feel Dunish. I had a quick look at the unit list in your Pedia. As fun as it is to create new stuff I think the place to start is to give all the existing stuff you've brought in a coherent/consistent look and feel in terms of texture. Longer term it would be good to use CIV4UnitArtStyleTypeInfos.xml to have a different look and feel for each faction (even just different textures) so that each one feels different. Obviously, we'd also need some custom units that really sell the Dune world too.

I probably won't be able to do anything for a couple of weeks because I'm pretty busy. Like I say, you've got quite a lot of good units in there so I'd probably start by going through them and retexturing for a consistent Dunish feel. I can also change some the models as I go so that they look more sci-fi. I'll let you know when I have some time for this.
 
Deliverator,
i couldn't agree with you more,

i m now adding the ee future units youve posted, with coyotes fx's

so far so good,

i cant do much with textures, just really really simple stuff,
it would be fun if you could help, when you have the time off course, thanks!


****
david,
i fixed most of the stuff you worte on the big post,

1. really hope you can get the airport mod to work - will be very nice to remove roads - its a whole new game play.

2. you have suggestions for names of lvl 1-3?

3. also hope we get somthing with the water mechanics.


all of the rest ive tweaked and fixed.

also replaced 7 unit models.
 
Here is the 2nd patch for the settle ai. iMinFoundValue can now changed via xml.
I created a tag inside GlobalDefines.xml named "AI_MIN_FOUND_VALUE". Sdk sources are included.

http://uploaded.to/file/dnd9ie

Map scripts still need time, maybe someone can help me with balancing resources? I think it's done in CIV4BonusInfos.xml. We need more food resources in desert waste. This will increase foundvalues for sure, maybe we don't need an ai settle fix. I'm also working on new terrain graphics, but I will need a few days to finish it.

Keldath, I don't think that ai handle deep desert as ocean. In new map script I don't place any ocean on map, it's one big area of land plots.

davidallen said:
But graphically, there is not enough difference between peak/hill of this terrain type vs another terrain type.
I'm working on it. I think it's great to have peaks and hills in the desert. This is the only true advantage of having land plots instead of sea plots. :)


I played a game with unoffical patch:

1. Can we add a game option to make mountains impassable as in vanilla civ4? It's strange having units on top of a peak.

2. Sand worms: I don't have a strategy how to deal with them. There were multiple sand worms next to my starting location and I lost 2 colony pods. Maybe it would be better when they only exist in flat deep desert.

3. In dune wars 1.0 there was much more action between civs. I think deep desert access is too restrictiv. Until we have a working land transport I would allow most units to enter deep desert. Special units made for deep desert could have a promotion (+1 movement in deep desert/ignores attacks from smugglers).

I made a new graphic for the unit/building backgrounds in the civilopedia:
lodfmihn.jpg

http://uploaded.to/file/b5vy6b
 
ah great work koma!

i can balance the bonus appearance, leave that to me.

a new terrain? your improving the texture? how nice!


actually - i really like the idea of hills and peaks on deep desert - the terrain look better and realistic that way.

1. not sure -theres some options in the global infos , but if you want that you can create atag for this?

2. well david wrote a new code, also - i was thinking - in order to keep the worms strong and to make damange - how about making them a suecide units? give them power of 100 from game start - and everytime they attack they dissapear - kinda like going back in the sand huh?

3. your probably right...all units will have to go through desert eventually, unless we get land transports...



good one koma! nice background!
youll make for sea aswell right?


****
here is unofficial patch 3 - only for sand sea:

http://ul.to/p0a6sa

patch 4 - land mass:
http://ul.to/0bgzva

how to use:

copy patch into dune wars folder - extract and overwrite,
when using only land mass - be sure to play the maps named dune_*.
 
1. Can we add a game option to make mountains impassable as in vanilla civ4? It's strange having units on top of a peak.

I agree this is a little strange. In vanilla civ you can't do anything with peaks; so keldath must have turned it on. There are a lot of peaks in your mapscript results. If we make them impassable, the map may become like a maze. Right now hills and peaks are safe hiding places for worms, which is helpful. So maybe we should have less of them, and they should have a higher move cost, but I suggest to leave them passable. Maybe a few improvements, such as windtraps, should be buildable there.

2. Sand worms: I don't have a strategy how to deal with them. There were multiple sand worms next to my starting location and I lost 2 colony pods. Maybe it would be better when they only exist in flat deep desert.

I certainly would like a lot more player feedback on this. It is supposed to feel a little risky, but not totally cripple you. I know the worm movement AI has at least one bug, because I saw a worm stranded up on a peak for one of my games, and it shouldn't be able to move there in the first place.

There are several things you can do to "hack" and make them less crippling if you like. You could give them TerrainImpassibles in unitinfos. You could make fewer of them, by changing the lines in cveventmanager.py:

Code:
		iUTPGA = pHandi.getUnownedTilesPerGameAnimal()
		iWormWant = (iUnowned / (3 * iUTPGA)) - iWormCount

This controls the total number of worms on the map. Make the "3" into a bigger number and it will reduce the number of worms; changing from 3 to 6 makes half as many, for example.

The worms are already (supposed to) stay on flat terrain, but they don't make any effort to stay in deep desert terrain. In the games I have played, I have never yet built any deep desert improvements or had many units there, so preventing worms from moving into arid/badlands/etc means the player will never interact with them.

Please try out terrainimpassables and give me more feedback, and I will think more about AI to make it less crippling. (I suspect you may not like sandstorms either, once you see them, there is no defense except mountains.)

3. In dune wars 1.0 there was much more action between civs. I think deep desert access is too restrictiv. Until we have a working land transport I would allow most units to enter deep desert. Special units made for deep desert could have a promotion (+1 movement in deep desert/ignores attacks from smugglers).

I notice keldath has put out an "ocean model" patch, so he is still actively maintaining both. We can still discuss about whether the "ocean model" is better than the land one.

Remind me, why did we switch to emphasize the land model? Perhaps it is a stupid question, but I think the main reason was because hover units were initially only buildable at "port" cities, which does not make much sense. Perhaps this is separately fixed.

One small reason to keep the land model is that the storm AI and the worm AI are both incompatible with this, and it is not convenient to change them. The only way I can think of involves two sets of units, one land domain and one sea domain, and writing code to swap the unit types when they cross the border. Maybe I could avoid this if I knew how to make a unit that could move freely across both, but I do not know how.

Today I will try to study that, and also play the patch 3 which uses the ocean model.
 
I did a prototype of using irrigation, and it works for buildings. Please see the details at this link. We can have cities generate fresh water and use vanilla irrigation chaining. I am not sure this is a good idea, I am not sure exactly how it would work. But it seems like we should do "something" to capture the dune feel of limited water.

I would love a way to have the AI use improvements that generated fresh water (windtrap) but I do not see how right now.

Any thoughts on how water should play into the game so it feels more dune-like?
 
1. yeah i added mountains cause i thought it would be nice )another terrain type), its possible to lower the peak hight if you guys want.

2. the kopma new code - has indeed tons of peaks.

3. for the time being i will work with the two possibilities - until we decide which is better.

4. i wanted a land terrain so units could go over all terrain, and the ai would handle war and units movement better, but then - i forgot theres no land transports..so that screwed my plan.
but still i think the ai handles him self better on land mass,
we just have to put in the currect game mechanics - which unit can cross desert, how much movement - roads to conect or not, and so on.

you know theres athe can move allterrain tag in the xml, but the ai goes dumb with it - it wont attack with units and wont cross ocean( sand sea),
hovers was suppose to cross both land and sea tearrin, and transports should have moved troops across ocean - carryalls should have all terrain - but if set - it wont do it function to move troops -it seems that this allterrain tag screwes up ai behaviour - its unit ai.

so meanwhile - ill work on the two options, tried to develop the land mass more and more.



****

ill check the link.

how water should be handled...

well, if we could get jeckel to help us with sdk code....
we can make that improvements can supply water,
as you know mines have a way of discovering a resource - maybe if we raise that value to a huge number - it will be very likely to produce water bunus,
but, how will it create fresh water for irrigation?
not sure.

also we need something to make the spice have more role,

i was thinking of quantitive resource system, but we need an sdk coder.

***
also as i worte before,
theres a sdk code that can make that a city can only build something if it has a resource in its vacinity - like to build an axeman - the city must have a copper res' in its borders.
 
Since you have released patch 3 for the ocean model, let me play around with it a little. I spent a few minutes looking at it but I will have more time in 8 hours from now.

I notice the hovers still can only be built in port cities. Did you find the xml tag to allow building hovers anywhere? What is it? I will try it locally. To me that is the big drawback of the ocean model. I see your comments on the poor AI with allterrains, but I will try a few things if you can show me how to have hovers buildable anywhere.

Regarding spice, you would be surprised how much can be done in python. Fury Road does a lot, all in python. (One small thing is in sdk written by jeckel.) If we can define a system we want, I can probably implement it in python, or change the design slightly so it can be implemented in python.

Regarding water, I did create an improvement that generates fresh water. The human can use it, the AI will also build farms around it. But teaching the AI to build the improvement itself seems impossible right now. Maybe we could trick the AI into building it by giving the improvement itself like a +2 food, better than any other improvement, so if the AI were looking for food improvements it would choose this one. (Actually, why didn't I think of that before? That should work.)
 
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