SGOTM 09 - Misfits

OK so WK made peace with Shaka and appearently got a heavy sum in the deal...
We picked up 320g from him giving him Printing press.

There is some more cash available now, 280g.
We have 1093 gold and are running at -320gpt. 2 turns fusion and 1 turn for Ecology at 100% is good enough... But if we pick up the 280 we can run the 4 turns at 100%.

We spawned a GP (of all odds!! I didnt check them, but they were LOW) I used him + the artist to start our last GA. We should consider gifting back Cuzco now to HC.

Took out a barb galley and researched Fission, Fusion is now due in 2 turns and that is my stopping point.

Dur K. is set up for Lab > Casing > Engine cascade overflow... The lab should help the Engine, if only a little.

Sleeps is doing Uni > Bay > Engine Cascade, with 5 non-BFC and 1 BFC pre chop ready to go... Dont think we need more chopping in Sleeps?! But a calculation to make sure might be nice.
Also pre-chopped one of the forests of Dur K. Just in case we need it.

There are some workers working on the "chain gang" building a rail from Sleeps to CiB and we have gotten one chop turn in a forest just SW of CiB.

TR has 5 (not 6 that its showing) turns left to build Thruster > Cockpit
483 already into the Thruster, needing 804 plus 670 for the Cockpit = 804 - 483 + 670 = 991
991 / 217 = 4.56 turns Some major overflowing going on.

I think we are perfectly set, just make sure to manage CiB for the cascade overflow from the Casing to the Life support. The casing has 2 more turns, we want 1 more turn build in it. Then 3 turns of prebuilding finish casing on turn 4, overflow + chops finish Life support on Turn 5.
Since we already have 3 workers on forests that can chop 2 turns now... we have some leeway here...

The save is uploaded



Oh, I also set things in motion to transport our troops back to Our home land, should we decide to try and have fun with Joao, we will need them

I also appointed Joao all our EPs, if anyone has any spies running around our land its Joao, having more EPs allocated to him should make any missions more expensive (right?)

Perhaps we should even consider building a spy someplace and running an "anti espionage" mission against Joao to make every mission cost 200% to deter any sabotage actions?

Sounds very good, Kale!

Plenty of AI cash grabbed and more available, so we should be good to finish our research.

A spy and a counter-espionage mission is probably a good idea -- having an engine sabotaged would be most infuriating at this point. Several spies might be worthwhile, actually; having a spy in the city increases the chance for missions against that city to fail. Not sure where to build them, will have to check.

haphazard1 (me) is now UP to build SS parts and get us the final pieces.
JerichoHill is on deck, with Mastiff also available to attack Joao once the ship is launched.

How long should I play? Which is really the same question as asking how often do we need to stop to verify we are on track? Or would it be better to just complete the ship according to plan, keeping the game in one player's hands to avoid possible mistakes on the hand-over?

I will check the save later tonight, review SS part schedules, and post my thoughts and plans. But it sounds like we are very well positioned and just need to execute all the micro as has been discussed.

Mastiff_of_Ar said:

Well, I think they had to do it because you can now launch with less parts... I wonder if a ship without all the parts could explode on the launching pad?!

Click to expand...

I guess you are right, Mastiff. Since you can have different numbers of engines and thrusters, you have to have the "flight time" turns.

But I still really dislike those "dead" turns. The game is over already, get to the victory screen.

Well, you could wipe out the civ before the ship lands... I did that once, on Monarch. Pretty sweet.

Hap, I would if I were you, complete the ship. I'll launch the ship and get the troops in place, then hand off the turnset for the last few turns so Mastiff can have fun

I like to blow stuff up!

Maybe nuke Russia... see if we get a rise out of CRC!

Ha! Last turn of the game we nuke Russia. I like it. We'll make nasty comments

THE UKRAINE IS STRONG!!!

Like I said, bloodthirsty.

OK, a few thoughts on the save. I intend to play 5 turns, through setting up completion of all SS parts. I will leave the next turn (actually launching the ship and some fun) to JH.

- All SS parts for which we have the techs are in production, and should be finished within 5 turns (2 to get Fusion, then 3 to build the engines). Parts we do not have techs for are the engines and life support, which are already planned for in Dur-Kur and Sleeps (engines, 3 turn builds with overflow and chops) and CiB (life support, 1 turn build with overflow and chops).

- We are due another GP from CiB in 3 turns...not sure what to do with it. Depends on what it is, but a GE could rush us a wonder (R&R? Cristo?) perhaps.

- Part builds:

-- Sleeps is prepping overflow from the Docking Bay for the engine. I do not understand the uni build, Kale. We could pull pop off the tundra hill mine and one plains forest and set them as scientists; that puts us 2 hammers short of finishing the Docking Bay. Then it finishes next turn for near-max overflow. But I guess the uni would cascade overflow into the Docking Bay, for even more total overflow? Or would some of the overflow get converted to gold?

OK, I think I do get the uni build after all.

-- Dur-Kur...need to keep an eye on the overflow cascade. It should work fine, as set up by Kale. But if we get limited to overflowing only the maximum of our current hammers (and not the size of the last thing built), we will be about 6 hammers short for the engine. I will check the overflow the turn we get Fusion and start the engines, and if necessary will chop the one forest to complete the engine.

-- All other part builds look good. Close in some places, but everything should finish in 5 turns.

- Workers. We do need to make sure we have the necessary workers at Sleeps (at least 7, pref 8) and CiB (at least 6, pref 7), and possibly Dur-Kur (1). We have 16 total, so we should have just enough.

The timing key will be for CiB -- workers not already in position need 1 turn to enter a forest, then 4 turns to chop an ice forest. That means workers need to move into those forests next turn, or at most 1 turn later with a revolt to Serfdom to speed the chop. I will check the timing next turn, and hopefully get all workers in position then, just to be safe.

- Spies. The recommendation to run a counter-espionage mission against Joao is a good one, I think. Especially since Joao will finish Communism next turn and get a free Great Spy, which will probably get used against us. I think we should also build additional spies to place in our cities which will finish SS parts on that last turn, to guard against sabotage of the final parts; the presence of a spy increases failure chance for missions against that city.

However, we are very tight on finishing Fusion in 2 turns. I checked, and we can take 2 cities off building research to build spies (FH and Akkad, chosen because they can build a spy in 1 turn, and FH is close to Joao to move and run the counter-espionage mission). But not 3 cities -- Fusion would drop to 3 turns. So I propose to build spies in FH and Akkad this turn, sending the FH spy to Joao's territory for the counter-espionage. (Or can you run counter-espionage in your own territory? I will check in WB with a test map.) The Akkad spy will move to CiB.

Next turn I will see if we can build 2 more spies for Sleeps and Dur-Kur; if so, I will build them. The following turn we will be able to build multiple spies for other cities which will be finishing parts, since the slider can drop for Ecology in 2 turns.

- Gold. I will grab the available cash from the AIs before ending the current turn. That should be enough for us to complete 100% research through Fusion, then get Ecology in 2 turns. If more gold is available on later turns, I will grab it just in case we find some use for it (emergency upgrade, or whatever).

- Military. I will continue bringing our victorious veteran Inca force home, and work to position them for an attack on Joao. We can chain once with the galley near TR, that will get some cannons moved. Paras can be put ashore in a city and then start para-dropping themselves city to city. Or would it be better just to sail the galleons to the border of Joao's territory? Galleons move 5 tiles per turn and do not have to base from a city....

- I will gift Cuzco back to HC. I do not see any reason to keep it at this point, and we do not want to pay maintenance for it.

- JH is starving, but can last two more turns with what is in the granary. By then LM will have plenty of stored food, and I will shift the corn back to JH.


Comments, suggestions, things I have missed? Primary goal is getting Fusion in 2 turns, getting all the SS parts done on time, and making sure all the micro is right to get the 2 engines and life support finished 5 turns from now.

haphazard1 said:

-- Sleeps is prepping overflow from the Docking Bay for the engine. I do not understand the uni build, Kale. We could pull pop off the tundra hill mine and one plains forest and set them as scientists; that puts us 2 hammers short of finishing the Docking Bay. Then it finishes next turn for near-max overflow. But I guess the uni would cascade overflow into the Docking Bay, for even more total overflow? Or would some of the overflow get converted to gold?

OK, I think I do get the uni build after all.

Click to expand...

Huh ? Flinging dog sh...

I thought the prebuild was done?? But not so, it needs another turn.... The Uni was there to "cover" the extra turn I thought was needed. But the turn is not needed....
Offcourse doing the MM to get within 2 hammers is the better solution!

Good thing I stopped that would have put a cramp on the plans, though problably the chops would be able to cover this mistake.

haphazard1 said:

-- Dur-Kur...need to keep an eye on the overflow cascade. It should work fine, as set up by Kale. But if we get limited to overflowing only the maximum of our current hammers (and not the size of the last thing built), we will be about 6 hammers short for the engine. I will check the overflow the turn we get Fusion and start the engines, and if necessary will chop the one forest to complete the engine.

Click to expand...

I am not quite sure what the overflow will be from the lab... but this is the "best" setup we could hope for I guess...

haphazard1 said:

- Workers. We do need to make sure we have the necessary workers at Sleeps (at least 7, pref 8) and CiB (at least 6, pref 7), and possibly Dur-Kur (1). We have 16 total, so we should have just enough.

Click to expand...

We need 9 at CiB if you want to chop all the forests. But 3 workers are already in place and can pre-chop a little. Also consider Serfdom for them last chops?

The timing key will be for CiB -- workers not already in position need 1 turn to enter a forest, then 4 turns to chop an ice forest. That means workers need to move into those forests next turn, or at most 1 turn later with a revolt to Serfdom to speed the chop. I will check the timing next turn, and hopefully get all workers in position then, just to be safe.

haphazard1 said:

- Spies. The recommendation to run a counter-espionage mission against Joao is a good one, I think. Especially since Joao will finish Communism next turn and get a free Great Spy, which will probably get used against us. I think we should also build additional spies to place in our cities which will finish SS parts on that last turn, to guard against sabotage of the final parts; the presence of a spy increases failure chance for missions against that city.

Click to expand...

Additional spies are a waste.... We would need to protect all part building cities and we wont be able to do that... so just make 1 spy and run the mission.... Joao doesnt have that many EPs anyways.... making the missions cost 200% should be good enough...

haphazard1 said:

(Or can you run counter-espionage in your own territory? I will check in WB with a test map.) The Akkad spy will move to CiB.

Click to expand...

Against whom would you be countering? No, you need to be in Joao city I think, possibly territory....

haphazard1 said:

- Gold. I will grab the available cash from the AIs before ending the current turn. That should be enough for us to complete 100% research through Fusion, then get Ecology in 2 turns. If more gold is available on later turns, I will grab it just in case we find some use for it (emergency upgrade, or whatever).

Click to expand...

well... Every (future) tech we can research gets us some points as well...

haphazard1 said:

- Military. I will continue bringing our victorious veteran Inca force home, and work to position them for an attack on Joao. We can chain once with the galley near TR, that will get some cannons moved. Paras can be put ashore in a city and then start para-dropping themselves city to city. Or would it be better just to sail the galleons to the border of Joao's territory? Galleons move 5 tiles per turn and do not have to base from a city....

Click to expand...

Dont think this matters much... we need the troopers near FH/TR for protection as well... If/when we declare... Doubt we will catch 3 cities from Joao before the game is over though...

haphazard1 said:

- JH is starving, but can last two more turns with what is in the granary. By then LM will have plenty of stored food, and I will shift the corn back to JH.

Click to expand...

That was my thinking...
Work the corn in JH for a few turns then hand it back to LM again. LM can grow more fast than JH, pop = score.

KaleLambiek said:

Huh ? Flinging dog sh...

I thought the prebuild was done?? But not so, it needs another turn.... The Uni was there to "cover" the extra turn I thought was needed. But the turn is not needed....
Offcourse doing the MM to get within 2 hammers is the better solution!

Good thing I stopped that would have put a cramp on the plans, though problably the chops would be able to cover this mistake.

Click to expand...

OK, sounds like I was not imagining things. I will shift the two pop to scientists for the one turn, to get us 2 hammers short on the Docking Bay this turn, and then put them back to work for hammers next turn to generate max overflow.

KaleLambiek said:

I am not quite sure what the overflow will be from the lab... but this is the "best" setup we could hope for I guess...

Click to expand...

I think we are good at Dur-Kur. The overflow should be more than enough, unless we do get limited to overflowing no more hammers than our current per-turn production. (If the rest turns into gold, essentially.) But even if it does, one forest chop will cover the 6 hammer shortfall. Just means we need to have that one worker available.

KaleLambiek said:

We need 9 at CiB if you want to chop all the forests. But 3 workers are already in place and can pre-chop a little. Also consider Serfdom for them last chops?

Click to expand...

I will recheck my calculations, but I think we need 7 forests in CiB to finish the part. Life Support is not all that expensive and gets resource bonus, so we should be OK. But I will double-check to be 100% certain.

KaleLambiek said:

Additional spies are a waste.... We would need to protect all part building cities and we wont be able to do that... so just make 1 spy and run the mission.... Joao doesnt have that many EPs anyways.... making the missions cost 200% should be good enough...

Click to expand...

Joao has more EP against us than we have against him. And if he infiltrates us with the Communism free Great Spy, he will have thousands of EP to spend. We could have enough spies for all the part producing cities by the final part-building turn, although we may not be able to get them all in place in time. You are probably right, and we should just build the one spy and run the counter-espionage mission.

KaleLambiek said:

Against whom would you be countering? No, you need to be in Joao city I think, possibly territory....

Click to expand...

OK, that makes sense. (Shows how often I actually use spies, doesn't it? ) Only problem is that it will take 3 turns to get him to a Portugese city, since we do not have a road/rail connection south of FH. If I only need Portugese territory, 2 turns.

KaleLambiek said:

well... Every (future) tech we can research gets us some points as well...

Click to expand...

This is a good question -- what to tech after we finish Ecology? Future techs? Or do we get just as many points for picking up cheaper techs which we have skipped since they were not needed for the space ship? Would could grab several earlier techs if we want them -- Mil Sci, Mil Trad, Communism, etc. Or do Future Techs actually give more points? They do give health/happy bonus, of course.

KaleLambiek said:

Dont think this matters much... we need the troopers near FH/TR for protection as well... If/when we declare... Doubt we will catch 3 cities from Joao before the game is over though...

Click to expand...

Yes, not much time to do much. Dur-Kur could finish the Manhatten Project in 3 turns, though, and then build a nuke. Might have time to hit a city (or two, if Sleeps builds a nuke as well).

KaleLambiek said:

That was my thinking...
Work the corn in JH for a few turns then hand it back to LM again. LM can grow more fast than JH, pop = score.

Click to expand...

Sounds good.

I will aim to play tonight (about 10 hours from now) if there are no objections. Let's get this one wrapped up, so we can see what the other teams have done/are doing. I really want to know how we compare. Some of those score graphs make me think we are going to be solidly beaten, but maybe not?

Dur K, we also have the option available to eat the stored food, turning one of the farms into a workshop... Take special note to not break a chain irrigation!
Changing 3 food 2 hammers to 0 food 5 hammers, +2 hammers against all those modifiers...
There is actually a Workshop ready to be "shopped"

CiB, Note the forest 2 south too... only 2 turns to chop, outside the BFC but still worth 16 base hammers.

The score graphs do indicate some of the teams going for a turn 140 - ish finish or something rediculous... Reading their game will teach me some things problably

Lets take pride in beeing the first team to finish?? And/or possibly (one of the) team (s) that finish within the original June 27 time limit.... Lets get a hustle on !

You know, let's take the latter award.

If Hap finishes his turnset tonight, then I can launch the ship on Saturday, and hand off to Mast to have fun with the last few turns of attacking Joao on Sunday, and we're done.

Unless you all want to be done on June 27th for the moral victory

KaleLambiek said:

Dur K, we also have the option available to eat the stored food, turning one of the farms into a workshop... Take special note to not break a chain irrigation!
Changing 3 food 2 hammers to 0 food 5 hammers, +2 hammers against all those modifiers...
There is actually a Workshop ready to be "shopped"

Click to expand...

As long as we have enough food to last 5 turns. I will recheck this. The extra hammers from the one workshop would be enough that we would definitely not need the forest chop even in worst case with the overflow. Frees that worker up, which could be useful.

KaleLambiek said:

CiB, Note the forest 2 south too... only 2 turns to chop, outside the BFC but still worth 16 base hammers.

Click to expand...

Noted, thanks. I hope we don't need it, but good to have it just in case.

KaleLambiek said:

The score graphs do indicate some of the teams going for a turn 140 - ish finish or something rediculous... Reading their game will teach me some things problably

Click to expand...

I have to wonder, seeing those big spikes in score. Presumbly that is more land/cities/pop from conquering Hammi (or Joao) earlier than we did. But I do not see how that could be managed, without diverting hammers from important infra such as obs/labs, airports, etc. So launching that much earlier seems unlikely. The earlier conquest of more cities would pay off over time, of course, so maybe they will still beat us handily. But if someone actually launches in the T140's.... Lots to learn from a team that can pull that off.

KaleLambiek said:

Lets take pride in beeing the first team to finish?? And/or possibly (one of the) team (s) that finish within the original June 27 time limit.... Lets get a hustle on !

Click to expand...

Assuming we are the first to finish...other teams have mostly caught up in turns played, and at least one has passed us. And of course they might finish earlier....

Still, agree on wrapping this up. I want to see how we have done compared to others!

JerichoHill said:

You know, let's take the latter award.

If Hap finishes his turnset tonight, then I can launch the ship on Saturday, and hand off to Mast to have fun with the last few turns of attacking Joao on Sunday, and we're done.

Unless you all want to be done on June 27th for the moral victory

Click to expand...

I will play my turns tonight and post the save. Continue when you can, JH and Mastiff -- as long as we do not get conquered during the SS flight time nothing else really matters.

OK, turnset played (4 turns).

T167

- Trade Education to WK (60), Shaka (60), Stalin (80), and Genetics to Joao (40), HC (40)
- Liberate Cuzco to HC, dropping our maintenance by 25 per turn. (So you do pay even if the city is in revolt.)
- I demand 3 Musicals in tribute, so we can sustain our 2 existing deals and have 1 Musical ourselves. HC wimps out and agrees.
- Shift 2 pop from hammer tiles to scientists in Sleeps, to max the overflow.
- Build a spy in FH, but this drops Fusion to 3 turns. Build research for a turn in JH to compensate.
- Cancel all outstanding worker actions, just in case.

T168

- Our Musical deals are terminated, despite my getting them as tribute. In fact, we have them but are unable to trade them! They do not appear in the trade screen, even to show that we have 1 (we have 3). So we lose the Sugar deal with WK. I demand Sugar from HC to compensate. He wimps out and agrees, again.
- Joao completes Communism and gets the free Great Spy in Lisbon. Nice long ways away from us, fortunately.
- WK gets a GS. He also finds 290 gold somewhere, and I sell him Constitution for it.
- Atlantis barbs send another galley towards BT. Our privateer moves out and sinks it, then returns to port.
- Lots of worker micro, making sure we will be set up for all the chops at CiB and Sleeps.
- Reassign scientists to hammer tiles in Sleeps.

T169

- Fusion completes as scheduled, and we start Ecology.
- The free GE from Fusion heads to Sleeps and founds Mining Inc there to boost hammers.
- Dur-Kur gets massive overflow from the lab, and will actually finish the engine in 2 turns! Might even get enough overflow from that to build Life Support the turn after, saving our forests in CiB. We will see...all prep for mass chops at CiB will be performed anyway, for safety.
- WK comes up with another 350 gold, and I sell him Liberalism.
- Revolt to Serfdom so all CiB workers will be ready in time.
- More worker micro...got to get all of this right.
- JH reclaims the corn to avoid starvation.

T170

- A foreign spy is caught, 2E of Babylon!
- CiB produces a GE. Quick Rock-N-Roll seems like the best use, as we are at the happy cap in a couple cities. Will wait a turn or two and build it in CiB for the NE +100% GPP, not that it really matters.
- WK comes up with another 330 gold, so I sell him Economics. Overall his tech rate is through the roof, as he buys our deeply discounted technology. Pericles' one-time-only Leaving the Planet Sale! Buy our technology cheap cheap cheap while the offer lasts!
- Also sell Liberalism to Shaka and Stalin, for 50 gold each.
- Final worker micro and positioning....
- Troops are being shuffled towards FH and the border with Joao, in case JH and Mastiff want to have some fun.
- Atlantis is down to size 8??? Can barbs whip?

T171

- IBT I see Atlantis drop to size 7. No ships blocking their tiles...must be whipping or running massive specialists?
- Ecology completes as scheduled. Select Military Science just to grab a tech for points...our overflow from Ecology is enough to fill the entire bar.
- Our spy finally is in position in Joao's closest city, and successfully completes a counter-espionage mission. No spies blowing up parts for 1 more turn, please please please!
- Dur-Kur will fall 76 hammers short of building Life Support in 1 turn; 6 hammers short with one chop. Oh well...was hoping to save our preserves at CiB for National Park. Start Manhattan Project instead so JH and Mastiff can nuke some people.
- 6 chops at CiB completes the Life Support. 2 preserves left for NP specialists.
- 6 chops at Sleeps completes the second engine. The workers there should farm or workshop these tiles to restore production in our HE city.
- All remaining parts are scheduled to complete this turn, as planned. We are ready to launch next turn, Misfits -- this game is almost over!


A lot of units remain to be moved, since I wanted to turn things over to JH with as much flexibility as possible. Paras are in TR and FH -- most of them can drop this turn if desired. The GE is west of JH -- you can move him there to build R&R this turn if desired, or wait one more turn and put it in CiB for more GPP. Zeps are still overseas -- forgot to move them at all. Might want to bring them to FH for air strike support.

I have set a number of cities to build wonders (both world and national), as wonders add to total score. Feel free to turn these back to research, or whatever.

JerichoHill is UP to launch the space ship next turn (and do remember to do that!) and build the Manhattan Project.
Mastiff is on deck to reach out and nuke someone.

Save is uploaded. Turnset log:

Nicely done Hap, lets wrap this baby up and put her to bed...

One question, why chop all the BFC forests, why not all the pre-chopped non-bfc forests?
Same at CiB, you didnt chop the non-bfc forest?

All those hammers left in forests at the end of the game...
12 forests at 16 hammers = good base production unused

Okay! Great! I will play the ship launch and build the Manhattan Project while producing spies galores and positioning the troops. I will do that Saturday Morning, around 10AM EST

After that Mast, if you can finish up that day, we at least make the original deadline!

on the turnset haphazard1.

and enjoy the launch JH.

KaleLambiek said:

One question, why chop all the BFC forests, why not all the pre-chopped non-bfc forests?
Same at CiB, you didnt chop the non-bfc forest?

All those hammers left in forests at the end of the game...
12 forests at 16 hammers = good base production unused

Click to expand...

I was focusing on making certain we got enough hammers, and BFC forests produce more hammers than outside-BFC forests (even with the loss of hammers from the missing lumbermills at Sleeps). We turned out to have more than we needed, but this game is over so it was simpler just to chop the BFC forests.

Launch the ship, JH, and set up Mastiff for a nuke or two. Then we will be finished and can check out how the other teams have done.

My guess on our placement: in the second quartile, not laurel contention. We played a pretty good game, but made some mistakes/had some problems:

- Building Confu shrine delayed our first GS for academy in JH
- Should have taken Genetics rather than Radio from Liberalism, as we never built the Radio wonders and the earlier health (plus more free beakers) would have been better
- Maybe left conquering Hammi too late? This is open to debate perhaps.
- Things like the outside-BFC forests not chopped, etc.

Things I think we did well:

- Good expansion, claiming a lot of land and some strong city sites without having to fight early.
- Good tech trading, getting quite a few more techs (and even some later techs like Rocketry!) than I originally thought there was any chance to get
- Good cash management and tech selling, keeping our tech slider at 100% for all the middle and late game.
- Kept the Atlantis barbs contained, suffered minimal significant damage from them.

Areas I am especially curious about the other teams' games:

- Wars -- did anyone fight early? How successful were they if they did?
- Using the AIs as tech trade partners -- did anyone take the riskier path of keeping the AIs fully up to date into the modern-era techs, so they could keep getting techs in trade? The risk of an AI declaring with modern units is very serious, but if you could make it work the payoff would be large.
- If anyone found a way to actually get significant value out of Atlantis

What do you think? What did we do well, what did we do poorly, what are you most curious about the other teams?

I think we finished 5th.

We did a much better job with tech trading and cash management. I feel Kale added alot of MM experience that helped out, and in general we did a better job of communicating. We really came together in the latter half of the game. I am very happy.

JerichoHill said:

I will do that Saturday Morning, around 10AM EST

After that Mast, if you can finish up that day, we at least make the original deadline!

Click to expand...

We have 7 more turns to play... 1 for the last parts, 6 for the flight... 2 turnsets???

exactly 1 important thing to get right... Press the launch button next turn (or actually this turn after the parts finish...)

haphazard1 said:

- Building Confu shrine delayed our first GS for academy in JH
- Should have taken Genetics rather than Radio from Liberalism, as we never built the Radio wonders and the earlier health (plus more free beakers) would have been better
- Maybe left conquering Hammi too late? This is open to debate perhaps.
- Things like the outside-BFC forests not chopped, etc.

Click to expand...

The GS is a little unlucky... but could have been prevented...
Genetics... Hmz.. radio does unlock plastics, how valuable are the added beakers vs the ealier Gorge?

I wonder how we would have done going for rifling instead of Astro... Would mean way ealier and more massive Trooper building Potentially back trading for Optics while heading up the tree more or less ignoring Astro and labs...

haphazard1 said:

Things I think we did well:

- Good expansion, claiming a lot of land and some strong city sites without having to fight early.
- Good tech trading, getting quite a few more techs (and even some later techs like Rocketry!) than I originally thought there was any chance to get
- Good cash management and tech selling, keeping our tech slider at 100% for all the middle and late game.
- Kept the Atlantis barbs contained, suffered minimal significant damage from them.

Click to expand...

If there is a way to get Atlantis productive and we didnt catch it... Thats a BIG win.
Our expansion was to my taste to agressive... We took a big gamble and a big hit founding SdL when we did... Also IT could perhaps should have been earlier... the added commerce would have been nice...

Also what about a direct Priesthood > Writing instead of going for BW first... I mean appart from the Lib whip in LM, how much whipping did we do early? Not enough IMHO to warent the lost turns there....

Getting Rocketery was a nice break, but in the end it saves us a turn perhaps 2.

haphazard1 said:

What do you think? What did we do well, what did we do poorly, what are you most curious about the other teams?

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We did well, with farely limited discussion... I think we could have had some more input from mostly different points of view... Then again... live is live....

KaleLambiek said:

We have 7 more turns to play... 1 for the last parts, 6 for the flight... 2 turnsets???

exactly 1 important thing to get right... Press the launch button next turn (or actually this turn after the parts finish...)

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Some fun with the last few turns is good, but let's play these quickly and be finished.

KaleLambiek said:

The GS is a little unlucky... but could have been prevented...

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Once we built the Oracle in JH, we risked a prophet as our first GP. We could have done something other than build the Confu shrine in LM, leaving it a pure GS gene pool.

KaleLambiek said:

Genetics... Hmz.. radio does unlock plastics, how valuable are the added beakers vs the ealier Gorge?

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Radio does not impact Plastics. Maybe I am misuderstanding your point?

We took Radio with Liberalism because we planned to build Cristo and R&R, and then never built either. Poor planning on our part; either we should have built them, or we should have taken another tech.

KaleLambiek said:

I wonder how we would have done going for rifling instead of Astro... Would mean way ealier and more massive Trooper building Potentially back trading for Optics while heading up the tree more or less ignoring Astro and labs...

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I do not think this would have helped. Astro to get overseas trade routes, observatories, and labs (due to the known techs) was a key technology to get early, and boosted our overall commerce and beaker rate significantly. Earlier Rifling would have meant earlier war, taking Hammi's lands earlier (positive), but significant delays in finishing key infra and research boosting buildings. I think we made the right choice with Astro earlier.

KaleLambiek said:

If there is a way to get Atlantis productive and we didnt catch it... Thats a BIG win.

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Very true. That's why I listed it under my "most curious" section. But I still do not see a way past the happiness issue. Maybe HR and stacking a ton of cheap units there? Get a GE and rush Globe?

Now that it has shrunk down to size 7, maybe it could be done. Way too late to be meaningful, of course.

KaleLambiek said:

Our expansion was to my taste to agressive... We took a big gamble and a big hit founding SdL when we did... Also IT could perhaps should have been earlier... the added commerce would have been nice...

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I think getting SdL was a positive, although it did cost us maintenance early. But it developed pretty rapidly into a very strong city, and provided good commerce from water tiles and windmills (before we mined those hills for max hammers later). Blocking Hammi from expanding further east and south was also important, and secured that territory for us to settle later.

IT earlier would have been positive, you are correct. I am curious to see if other teams went with one city or two in "Greenland".

KaleLambiek said:

Also what about a direct Priesthood > Writing instead of going for BW first... I mean appart from the Lib whip in LM, how much whipping did we do early? Not enough IMHO to warent the lost turns there....

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We were rather concerned about barbs during that era, as I remember. It was not yet apparent that the spawned barbs were less numerous than usual; presumably this was because of the pre-founded cities of Atlantis and Easter Island. Barb cities reduce the overall barb spawn rate, if I understand those mechanics correctly.

KaleLambiek said:

Getting Rocketery was a nice break, but in the end it saves us a turn perhaps 2.

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A couple turns is a couple turns.

KaleLambiek said:

We did well, with farely limited discussion... I think we could have had some more input from mostly different points of view... Then again... live is live....

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We had pretty good discussion, I think, although more input from more members of the team would have been good. If Misfits continues as a team for the next SGOTM, I think we need several new members to increase discussion and spread out the turnset playing duties. Especially with Chris not returning.

Additional thoughts:

- Building MoM ourselves would have saved us the need for the war against HC. We were busy with other things at the time, but Kale was probably correct that we should have found a way to build it somehow. Without Calendar resources needing to be improved, though, the tech was never going to be a high priority for us. HC had plenty of Calendar resources plus being Industrious. Trying and being beaten to it might have been worse.

- Civic choices. I am still wondering if we could have done better with some different choices, although I think we did fairly well here overall.

- Workers - probably should have had a few more, not just at the end but from the middle game onward. I expected to capture more from Hammi than we did, which would have helped at the end. But more workers sooner would have helped get those outside-BFC forests chopped, more improvement around FH, faster cottage conversion, etc.

Can't wait to see what the other teams have done.

Mastiff, what are the chances you can get the save from JH Saturday and complete the final turns quickly? These final "flight time" turns are just for fun, so hopefully they can be played fast. Let's not drag this out for several more days!