IamJohn
(was)?
So why exactly are we planting another city there? Are we planning on just trying to attack the city once they bomb it, or what?
Trojan Horse: Ninja Style
- Thread starter Krill
- Start date
Krill
Deity
Because if we don't they can plant forward (ie where the wheat city will be) and bomb that city site.
Then we'll be in exactly the same sort of situation, but it'll be worse, because we'd have to bomb 2 cities to defend instead on 1. TKY would be virtually cut off from DT. Basically by us planting forward, we force them to bomb further away from more vulnerable places, or save the GA and not bomb if they want to risk taking out our forward city and bombing us in the face.
Worst case, the wheat city would be a speed bump.
Then we'll be in exactly the same sort of situation, but it'll be worse, because we'd have to bomb 2 cities to defend instead on 1. TKY would be virtually cut off from DT. Basically by us planting forward, we force them to bomb further away from more vulnerable places, or save the GA and not bomb if they want to risk taking out our forward city and bombing us in the face.
Worst case, the wheat city would be a speed bump.
IamJohn
(was)?
Alright, makes sense, I guess the thing I'm concerned about is that they'll bomb and then capture the city we're planting now, and we'll at best have just wasted a settler, at worse have made their foothold stronger.
Krill
Deity
It's forcing them to either bomb further away thus protecting more important cities, or forcing them to not bomb and defacto give us time to get a counter bomb. That's the key. The settler for a GA exchange is pretty favourable to us.
But that's worst case. I think I've gotten it down to t112 for Music. Kaz will have difficulty beating that, and that gives us a GA and Kaz, because they can't afford to go into Caste, and have the GL, will have big problems getting a GA for a counter bomb.
But that's worst case. I think I've gotten it down to t112 for Music. Kaz will have difficulty beating that, and that gives us a GA and Kaz, because they can't afford to go into Caste, and have the GL, will have big problems getting a GA for a counter bomb.
IamJohn
(was)?
Alright, looks like a plan then. 
Thinking (dangerously) aloud (and yes, I know I've been posting about how important it is not to do this but hey, whatever): I know we can't let them have it if we have a chance at it, but what would we gain by just ignoring that route and head for other more important techs? Since we seem to be heading for CS before running for music will we have anything that *needs* to be researched that we could get to faster if we ignored music and the required prerequisites for music?
Thinking (dangerously) aloud (and yes, I know I've been posting about how important it is not to do this but hey, whatever): I know we can't let them have it if we have a chance at it, but what would we gain by just ignoring that route and head for other more important techs? Since we seem to be heading for CS before running for music will we have anything that *needs* to be researched that we could get to faster if we ignored music and the required prerequisites for music?
The trouble is, if we miss music, we could lose hte war in the west.
If we get it, it will break Kaz's back and effectively we win the war.
The reusltant delay is 6 turns on HBR and 5 Turns for CS (T114 vs 108 and 120 vs 115, respectively)
The bonus we now also have: Poly, Aesthetics, Litterature, Music.
If we get it, it will break Kaz's back and effectively we win the war.
The reusltant delay is 6 turns on HBR and 5 Turns for CS (T114 vs 108 and 120 vs 115, respectively)
The bonus we now also have: Poly, Aesthetics, Litterature, Music.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
I'd say go for it.
azzaman333
meh
We won't be able to beat Kaz to Music.
We can try(to take the city), but will fail. 2 archers in that city and we have no chance with the units we have.
We can beat Kaz to Music....and thus doing this:
1. A Moral vicotry, they arn't gettign music because they feel no one is even close. With this surprise attack they can't shift gears fast enough.
2. If we don't go for music, Kaz will start as soon as we drop that new city, and then we have missed our chance
3. We show Cav and MS that we can definetly research.
4. It is a cool thing to do, just like hte Oracle was. This is multiplayer. Insane tactics, and thinking outside the box is required. 4 techs, 7 turns.
WOW!
We can beat Kaz to Music....and thus doing this:
1. A Moral vicotry, they arn't gettign music because they feel no one is even close. With this surprise attack they can't shift gears fast enough.
2. If we don't go for music, Kaz will start as soon as we drop that new city, and then we have missed our chance
3. We show Cav and MS that we can definetly research.
4. It is a cool thing to do, just like hte Oracle was. This is multiplayer. Insane tactics, and thinking outside the box is required. 4 techs, 7 turns.
WOW!AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
Maybe what we offer Saturn is use of our level 10 unit to start heroic epic, along with the techs.
Literature is useful to us anyway, so either we scare them into rushing to music or we get it.
I think it's well worth the shot.
Literature is useful to us anyway, so either we scare them into rushing to music or we get it.
I think it's well worth the shot.
Ronnie1
Deity
I think we try to do it, ONLY, if we are confident that we won't face Cats on the Kaz front before we can counter with HA's.
When can we get our 1st HA to the front with the detour into Music?
When can we get our 1st HA to the front with the detour into Music?
approimately T120.
We get Los on Kaz's New city T109. At that point they have 4 turns of movement to get to our city.
WHEN we get the GA, we drop the bomb around T118. And then they are in big trouble, because then their new city is ingulfed, and they can't get units to it, as well as we can attack thier approaching units from roads etc.
We get Los on Kaz's New city T109. At that point they have 4 turns of movement to get to our city.
WHEN we get the GA, we drop the bomb around T118. And then they are in big trouble, because then their new city is ingulfed, and they can't get units to it, as well as we can attack thier approaching units from roads etc.
Ronnie1
Deity
They can build cats now!
If I were them, and I were NOT seriously considering our offer of alliance, I would be be building/whipping cats and HA, (5 whips in 2 turns, IIRC).
Will we be able to hold strong until T118?
If I were them, and I were NOT seriously considering our offer of alliance, I would be be building/whipping cats and HA, (5 whips in 2 turns, IIRC).
Will we be able to hold strong until T118?
Yes. We have Longbows. one will have 5 XP and hence City defender 2.
Also any whips has minimum 6 turns travel from their captial (HA) 12 turns (cat)
so we can hold it no problem. That is the beauty of this new city, it keeps the pressure on them.
We all know the best defence in Civ is offence
Also any whips has minimum 6 turns travel from their captial (HA) 12 turns (cat)
so we can hold it no problem. That is the beauty of this new city, it keeps the pressure on them.
We all know the best defence in Civ is offence
Ronnie1
Deity
If we are tactically strong enough....then I am all for going for the GA!
Ok here is exactly how the next 4 turns play out:
T109:
Quickly:
Start of turn--------------- End of turn
97
-65 32
+219 raw
We discover Poly at end of turn.
T110:
Quickly:
Start of turn--------------- End of turn
49 -49 0
+236 raw
We discover Aethetics at end of turn.
T111:
Quickly:
Start of turn--------------- End of turn
94 -82 12
+251 raw
We discover Litterature at end of turn.
T111:
Quickly:
Start of turn--------------- End of turn
106 -109 -3
+289 raw
We discover Music at end of turn.
Yes we are 3 gold short on the last turn, but any other city can run wealth to make that up if Saturn hasn't been able to generate that other 3 gold in those turns.
*I also suggest we send this to saturn so they can see the extent that we have to run our economy to do this.*
T109:
Spoiler :
Quickly:
Start of turn--------------- End of turn
97
-65 32 +219 raw
We discover Poly at end of turn.
T110:
Spoiler :
Quickly:
Start of turn--------------- End of turn
49
-49 0 +236 raw
We discover Aethetics at end of turn.
T111:
Spoiler :
Quickly:
Start of turn--------------- End of turn
94
-82 12+251 raw
We discover Litterature at end of turn.
T111:
Spoiler :
Quickly:
Start of turn--------------- End of turn
106
-109 -3 +289 raw
We discover Music at end of turn.
Yes we are 3 gold short on the last turn, but any other city can run wealth to make that up if Saturn hasn't been able to generate that other 3 gold in those turns.
*I also suggest we send this to saturn so they can see the extent that we have to run our economy to do this.*
Krill
Deity
OK, after an idea popped into my head, here is a rough proposal for a method to take Kaz out of the game completely.
Kaleb asked Memphus to write up a proposal where we don't artist Bomb Zero. This would fit into the bill pretty damned well IMO...
STEP ONE: The Setup
Chop granaries into DT, TKY, get walls in Zero. Grow TKY and DT to size 4, 1 food from growing. Run the Artist down to Zero, start building Moia at max hammers in FC, grow all out cities as hard as we can. Build into a cat, Ele, HA and sword in DT and TKY (minimal amount, like 4 hammers)
STEP TWO: The Build Up
Start a Golden Age with the Artist; revolt to Police State, Vassalage, Slavery. Slave TKY and DT for 2 pop and overflow into another unit to complete in 1 turns; slave on turns 1, 3, 5, 7 of the golden age, after slaving t7 revolt to (Rep)/Bureaucracy/Caste. Build HA in FC and CK (average of between 1/turn and 1.5/turn together, depending on growth in FC)
STEP THREE: Stealing Lunch Money
Kill Kaz with out 30 unit stack.
Chop granaries into DT, TKY, get walls in Zero. Grow TKY and DT to size 4, 1 food from growing. Run the Artist down to Zero, start building Moia at max hammers in FC, grow all out cities as hard as we can. Build into a cat, Ele, HA and sword in DT and TKY (minimal amount, like 4 hammers)
STEP TWO: The Build Up
Start a Golden Age with the Artist; revolt to Police State, Vassalage, Slavery. Slave TKY and DT for 2 pop and overflow into another unit to complete in 1 turns; slave on turns 1, 3, 5, 7 of the golden age, after slaving t7 revolt to (Rep)/Bureaucracy/Caste. Build HA in FC and CK (average of between 1/turn and 1.5/turn together, depending on growth in FC)
STEP THREE: Stealing Lunch Money
Kill Kaz with out 30 unit stack.
Kaleb asked Memphus to write up a proposal where we don't artist Bomb Zero. This would fit into the bill pretty damned well IMO...
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