Preview Thread: TNESII - Et In Arcadia Ego

The Knights of the Nile were one of several knightly monastic orders formed in Egypt in the late 12th century; they were not particularly successful early on, but later became fairly successful during the conquest of Upper Egypt. Unfortunately, they made enemies of a dominant court clique in the 15th century, and had their lands confiscated and some of their leaders arrested; the remainder was reorganised by the new highly opportunistic grand-master Guillaume fiz Henri and employed by the Venetians as mercenaries in all but in name during campaigns in southern Arabia, which went swimmingly. No permanent foothold was gained there, but newly won fame and glory boosted the ranks of the knights considerably, allowing them to conquer Ceylon on first try. They also attempted to seize some additional citadels in India, but this never worked out. Anyway, Ceylon became a fief of the Knights, ruled much like Malta or the Teutonic Order lands in OTL, only with a strong and privileged commercial Venetian presence. The Knights continued to provide the Venetians with military support up until the 17th century, after which the Knights fully struck out on their own after a temporary crisis brought on by the collapse of Venetian commerce. By then the Knight rule on the island was secure, and much of the surviving population was Christianised (those who weren't were mostly ignored, though somewhat underprivileged). The Knights did seize some nearby islands and a fortress on the tip of India, while also maintaining a fairly strong though mostly defensive fleet (after some unsuccessful forays into piracy) and sponsoring various missionary efforts. This collective feudal government has been retained to this day, though the cities have received wide freedoms and privileges in due time, quelling much middle-class dissent, and the Knights themselves have been perfectly willing to engage in various commercial enterprises (a la the Templars; somewhat more low-key, but also so much more secure). There have also been some individual mercantile magnates, some of them much closer to feudalism in the classic sense than the more tightly-knit and, as a rule, disciplined Knights. There is little interest in industry, though, with some specific exceptions. Which is just as well, since what little there is tends to help create a highly militant underclass, both on the cash crop plantations and in the factory barracks (though the Knights military industries are fairly well-ran and safe due to employing well-paid qualified labour).
 
Duuuuuuuude. Thanks. :goodjob:

-What are the presently operative alliances and diplomatic agreements between the various Powers? Like, all over the world?
-Is there a variant of the Paixhans gun of OTL in use? What about the various kinds of ironclad warships - monitors, casemates, and so forth...and is there an all-weather percussion cap yet?
-In what respects is the current HRE "similar" to the Second Reich - does the Emperor double as a King of a large territory (Elsass, considering the OTL Leiningens?) that comprises the vast majority of the imperial land but allow significant autonomy to royal and sub-royal rulers of other territories (like OTL Bavaria, Saxony, and so forth)?
-Is there a Generalstab, a Hofkriegsrat, or Reichshofrat in charge of military affairs (which one, or something different?), and is it under the control of a war minister or supreme commander, or does the head act as an imperial chief of staff/quartiermeister-general with the monarch assuming the position of CinC?
-Has the Reichskammergericht been in existence, and if so is it available as legal recourse to all Imperial citizens, taking precedence over lower courts in handing down its rulings?
-How exactly did Shi'ism develop as compared to OTL? (Extremely open-ended question I guess but it seems to be to be silly to suggest that Imamis, Zaydis, Isma'ilis, 'Alawis, and Alevis have all developed more or less similarly.)
-I wish my questions didn't have to shy away from what I really want to ask about. :p
 
Excellent, I'm so happy to finally have the TL.

This will make things a lot easier, even though changes to all the stats are necessary.

The only other major information I need from you, das, is a list of rebel groups and movements, similar to the list you made for NES2V, and a small list of important ATL individuals and their nationalities, such as this Arbeit fellow.
 
such as this Arbeit fellow.
:lol: Arbeit means "work" in German, "Arbeitist" is just a generic Anglicized term for a workers' movement. :lol:
 
Hahahahahaha :p
 
:lol: Arbeit means "work" in German, "Arbeitist" is just a generic Anglicized term for a workers' movement. :lol:

"Such as" as in "similar to," "similar to" as in "I already KNOW about Arbeitism, tell me about others".

STFU. :p NESing macht frei.
 
-What are the presently operative alliances and diplomatic agreements between the various Powers? Like, all over the world?

There are probably a lot of usual minor agreements on shipping and free navigation and national waters and whatnot; other than that, there really isn't all that much in the way of actual binding treaties and alliances (there is much more in the way of informal "sympathies" that convert into diplomatic support, as well as other kinds of unofficial cooperation, but you should be able to figure it out by yourselves). Arcadia is the Protector of the Argentine. Oklahoma enjoys recognition and guarantees of integrity from all other North American powers (except Japan and France, naturally). The Holy Roman Empire has an exclusively anti-French defensive agreement with Portugal, Flanders, Montferrat and Arcadia; for various reasons it failed to be activated in the 1840s, but has been renegotiated since. Flanders also has a more general military alliance with the HRE, based on the idea of the former providing naval assistance and the latter helping out on the land when such mutual operations are considered rational, though terms are subject to renegotiation. Georgia houses and supports Chernigovian garrisons. Egypt and Ethiopia have an archaic alliance treaty for the mutual defense of the Christian Nile against nomadic tribes and Muslim rebels. The Uighur Khanate is a vassal and tributary of the Golden Horde (which, by the way, is actually called that for once in this world). Knights of the Nile are sworn to poorly-defined and internationally non-binding neutrality in the affairs of Christian countries. Siam has an alliance and assistance treaty with Portugal. Vietnam is officially a Japanese vassal state (not de facto as yet, though; this is simple obeisance). Australia guarantees the independence and integrity of New Albion.

-Is there a variant of the Paixhans gun of OTL in use? What about the various kinds of ironclad warships - monitors, casemates, and so forth...and is there an all-weather percussion cap yet?

Paixhans gun is in, is widely used and has been improved upon somewhat. (Advanced) ironclads are in. The all-weather percussion cap is in. Note that all those are somewhat more recent innovations than in OTL (by approximately two or three decades).

-In what respects is the current HRE "similar" to the Second Reich - does the Emperor double as a King of a large territory (Elsass, considering the OTL Leiningens?) that comprises the vast majority of the imperial land but allow significant autonomy to royal and sub-royal rulers of other territories (like OTL Bavaria, Saxony, and so forth)?

Actually, by now not quite (sorry if this comes across as something of a retcon; I haven't been clear on this matter earlier); traditionally Alsace, Styria, Carinthia, Bohemia and Moravia have been and still are Leiningen fiefs, but effective central control over the rest of Germany has been established; the various principalities within the HRE are mostly nominal by now, subordinated to their respective Imperial Circles; their rulers generally live in Fulda and have ceremonial functions and certain personal privileges.

-Is there a Generalstab, a Hofkriegsrat, or Reichshofrat in charge of military affairs (which one, or something different?), and is it under the control of a war minister or supreme commander, or does the head act as an imperial chief of staff/quartiermeister-general with the monarch assuming the position of CinC?

Reichsgeneralstab and the latter.

-Has the Reichskammergericht been in existence, and if so is it available as legal recourse to all Imperial citizens, taking precedence over lower courts in handing down its rulings?

It exists and it is the unquestioned highest legal institution, though cases obviously seldom go that high up.

-How exactly did Shi'ism develop as compared to OTL?

Differently. :p For various reasons the various Ismailite branches had emerged as the dominant tendency, with more moderate Shiism surviving, but not really thriving in Iran (and some other places, but Iran is the main concentration, and even there they are a fairly small minority). The disagreements between the Ismailite branches in this world are less dynastic (this was weeded out during earlier chaos) and more theological and political. They all hate modern Egypt very much, ofcourse.
 
das, in addition to the aforementioned rebel group list, could you tell me which colonies changed hands during and after the Fifty Years War? I'd like to know which areas have English/French/Flemish minority populations.

Your two questions are not as closely connected as you seem to think they are; there have been other migrations unconnected to the colonial race and there have been colonies that have been more or less wholly assimilated or, more likely, simply overran. There are, ofcourse, Flemings and Frenchmen in the more southerly parts of the Arcadian Atlantic seaboard and Flemings and Portuguese in the Argentine; New Leon is populated mainly by Galicians; and the north of south America is an uncertain hodgepodge with German settlements in Portuguese territory and vice versa. There be Englishmen and Portuguese in Brasil. No other truly notable things except maybe for the "Venetian" quarters in many Indian Ocean cities (those house the "pure" descendants of Venetian merchants and soldiers, the metises and various non-Italian people who are nonetheless "Venetian" culturally; though this "Venetian" culture has, to a great extent, gone native over the centuries, not in the terms of religion, but in the terms of nearly everything else). I suppose there are some Englishmen - or, more likely, metises - in Japanese America, though not in the larger coastal towns; the Japanese massacring policy has been relatively relaxed there, but still.

a small list of important ATL individuals and their nationalities

How important is important? There were a lot of those people. And you do probably realise that a simple "small list" won't suffice; they were all important for something... Meh, I'll see what I can do.

a list of rebel groups and movements

Going over the major groups, there is a growing republican-arbeitist underground in Arcadia itself, a "Mexica" native revivalist movement (you can guess where), colonial separatists in German Orinoco, anti-isolationist groups in coastal cities and border communities of Tawantinsuyu (it's not so much an ideological matter as a matter of them being already involved in illegal trade with foreigners and so both in trouble with the authorities and eager to make their lives easier; the fact that many of them are united by something of an unusually sophisticated and wide-reaching cargo cult makes things worse, ofcourse), Brasilian colonial separatists mixed with arbeitists, collective British and separate Scottish separatist organisations, Young Gaul reformers among French officerhood and educated bureaucracy, Catholic reunionists within the Avignon Church, Castillian, Leonese and Morisque/Mozarabic separatists, a more centralised arbeitist movement in Flanders and the HRE, Danish "republican" (of the ends justify the means, the will of the People's Republic could be represented by a small heroic vanguard that answers to no-one and does whatever it wants is necessary variety) ultranationalists, a nationalist-arbeitist Italian movement, Czech separatists, Polish and Hungarian nationalists, Lithuanian clan-based malcontents, Volga Bulgar nationalists, Wallachian nationalists, Bulgarian regional and national separatists, Greek separatists (in Greece Proper), ultraconservative ludditesque privileged peasantry and old urban mercantile corporations in Chernigov, various tribal malcontents throughout Africa, the more organised semi-autonomous Beninese court currently presided over by an ambitious and independence-minded king, Muslim tribe-based rebellion-minded confederacies in western and eastern Ethiopia and southern Egypt, Cyreneican French-descended Avignonists, a few splinter highly radical Ismailite sects in Egypt itself, pro-Jadfdi Arabic tribal groups all over Egypt's eastern frontier, Jewish Zionist nationalists (not very violent as yet, but this might change as this gains speed; divided into secularist and millenialist branches, the sub-branches of the latter already having certain candidates in mind), Angoran Turks in the border regions of all neighbouring countries, Sunni Turkish groups in Iraq, Parsi (technically an uncertain majority) and other non-Turkish tribal groups in Iran, tribal malcontents in the Golden Horde (especially among the northern and northeastern tribes for some reason), provincial separatist governors (in the west; strongly pro-Tverian, so if the Golden Horde tries to crack down on ties with Tver it will likely have a rebellion on its hands), Rajput principal autonomists/separatists, Muslim Turkish and Mongol groups in Punjab, Gujarati nationalists, anti-Malla pro-Bengali Indian rebels, regional anti-Bengali separatists (especially in Burma but also in central India), regional Indochinese separatists, anti-Portuguese traditionalists in Siam itself (also, at the royal court), pro-Xin Ming Chinese peasant secret societies in all non-Xin Ming China, the White Lotus Society (technically pro-Xin Ming, but might break away any moment now as there have been strong disagreements over the recent reforms among other things), Manchurian tribal and aristocratic traditionalists, Korean separatists, Japanese "Westernisers" and re-isolationists, the Oomoto sect (no relation to the OTL sect; rather, an anti-feudal anti-Shogunate Pure Land Buddhist-Christian syncretistic sect with messianic pretensions, increasingly widespread among the urban underclass in the Home Islands), the Javanese nationalists, the (Catholicised, but much more numerous than in OTL) Maori monarchist separatists. Those are the major groups, for now.

Now go and sort that out. :p
 
Can't you come up with your own? I have next to nothing in that (non-political) regard, and it's all very much nonbinding. How important is this going to be to the NES, anyway?
 
Can't you come up with your own? I have next to nothing in that (non-political) regard, and it's all very much nonbinding. How important is this going to be to the NES, anyway?

Well, I was trying to model the alternate development of science/technology (applicable to new inventions that players will use) and philosophy, (applicable to new governments that may possibly form) so a broad overview of any major deviations from OTL would be appreciated.

It's also useful for flavor and quotation purposes. Though I can definitely improvise there.
 
Please do.

There has been some discussion on this topic before; as much has been summed up on page 13 of this thread, I think. Other than that, just keep in mind that society in this world is, as a rule, more conservative, the Reformation has never happened (instead, there was church reform in the 14th-15th centuries), and the Renaissance came earlier and was skewed considerably (less Byzantine influence, Egypt as the main center, all in all a more religious brand of "southern" humanism that also influenced the Egyptian Jewry as contrasted with the highly orthodox French Jewry and the more conservative, but also somewhat more secular German Jewry, among other things). Various trends are too numerous to list just like that, but feel free to ask more specific questions.
 
Okay, Azale gets the Phlegm-ish.

Now all that I need is an Imperial Shogunate of Japan.

Yui, I'm holding Ethiopia for you if you still want it.

Italy goes to Flavius Aetius if I didn't say that already. Luckymoose, do you still want Angora?

I'd like to get some more Muslim players, including the Republic of Adana and the Jadfdids.

I suppose I'l take Ethiopia. The Knights of the Nile are taken, right?

EDIT: Being gone sucks. I'll take the Knights of the Nile if available, then Ethiopia. thanks
 
A few questions:

- How is Egypt's parliamentary monarchy structured? How much power given to the King, and how much to the people?
- What are our relations with the various Anatolian countries? Are they allies to Egypt, or staunch enemies who remember the Alexandrian conquests? What of Iraq? Is it a secular christian state, or is it run by Muslims?
- How advanced is the Egyptian navy? Does our engineering prowess extend to shipbuilding, and have we adopted ironclads and steam power to a large extent? Are the Ironclads here closer to an HMS Warrior or a Pre-Dreadnought?
- How far has Egypt gone, industrially? Are we up to date with the most modern European nations, or are we still lagging behind? How powerful is Egypt, economically, and how strong are its economic institutions?
- Finally, what is our level of commercial influence, and to what extent are our interests and influences in the Indian ocean?
 
I think I answered most of these.

Most of the world's stronger naval powers (Arcadia, Portugal, Flanders, Egypt, France, Japan, etc.) and some others (Germany, Tver, Chernigov, Denmark) have at least a few ironclads backed up by a wooden navy. They are in various states of converting to steam, especially since the speed advantage of sailing ships has yet to be negated.
 
- How is Egypt's parliamentary monarchy structured? How much power given to the King, and how much to the people?

It's a parliamentary monarchy with a definite emphasis on parliamentary; the king has his prerogatives, mostly in ceremonial matters, military matters and matters of foreign policy, but the Senate can override most of his decisions with a simple majority vote. De facto the monarchy has been recovering the influence it has lost previously lately, and there has been talk of making the Senate's veto more difficult.

- What are our relations with the various Anatolian countries? Are they allies to Egypt, or staunch enemies who remember the Alexandrian conquests? What of Iraq? Is it a secular christian state, or is it run by Muslims?

Anatolian countries vary; Adana is very much an enemy, Ionia and Armenia are much more friendly (no formal agreements, though, except for a double royal marriage with Ionia), Angora is ambivalent. Iraq today is an Ismailite Shiite sultanate; not very friendly to Egypt at all.

- How advanced is the Egyptian navy? Does our engineering prowess extend to shipbuilding, and have we adopted ironclads and steam power to a large extent? Are the Ironclads here closer to an HMS Warrior or a Pre-Dreadnought?

Yes, the modern Egyptian navy is pretty advanced, though that was a result of a relatively recent naval build-up and modernisation effort (and what Thlayli said mostly applies). Most ironclads currently in use are closer to (1860) Warrior, though there have been some technological advances since.

- How far has Egypt gone, industrially? Are we up to date with the most modern European nations, or are we still lagging behind? How powerful is Egypt, economically, and how strong are its economic institutions?

With regards to industry, maybe lagging behind the HRE and Tver, but only slightly and that only because of a somewhat different traditional focus. Egypt has a strong, old capitalist tradition, which has actually led to some measure of economic stagnation in more recent times as the other countries had outpaced Egypt with regards to various innovations (kind of like early 20th century Britain in this regard, if you know what I am talking about), and overall is doing fine; it is a bit overly reliant on export of cash crops, though.

- Finally, what is our level of commercial influence, and to what extent are our interests and influences in the Indian ocean?

Pretty good and improving, at least in the western half of it plus India. This has led to some tensions with Portugal due to the infiltration of its colonies by Egyptian capital, though.
 
What about the mitrailleuse and breechloading tech? And do I have some kind of kanzler or head of government?
 
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