Civilizations, Leaders and Traits

Europe screen is haunting me...

... but I can give it a try. It will be very basic. Just a screen you can open up, order some units and a turn later they will show up in one of your cities. I think I can teach the AI to use it. Later we can add some more complexity to that concept. Don't expect any results soon... still interested?

I agree the post-apocalyptic background is one way to rationalize all these groups being there, without much tech. I agree the mercenary screen sounds interesting.

But can you work out the early game units and get those balanced first?

koma13 said:

Europe screen is haunting me...

... but I can give it a try. It will be very basic. Just a screen you can open up, order some units and a turn later they will show up in one of your cities. I think I can teach the AI to use it. Later we can add some more complexity to that concept. Don't expect any results soon... still interested?

Click to expand...

That'll teach you for doing quality work! I'm definitely interesting in seeing something like this done - I don't mind if it takes a while and basic is fine.

Just for the record - here's a list of Homeworlds:
Atreides - Caladan
Harkonnen - Geidi Prime
Corrino - Kaitain
Bene Gesserit - Wallach IX
Ordos - Sigma Draconis
Fenring - we'll have to make one up...
Tleilaxu - Tleilax
Ix -Ix
Fremen and Sietch Tabr - given the advantage of the worms, I think it is OK for them not to have anything.

I'd be happy to help out will background images - but that might be the fun bit...

I'd be happy to help out will background images - but that might be the fun bit...

Click to expand...

Of course I will need help with the backgrounds. But I first want to do a proof of concept.

keldath said:

im almost completed first fraft of the ix confederacy
ill upload the chages later i hope - ive done a really nice flag ! deliverator - youll be proud

Click to expand...

Good work on the Ix. Nice to see Lord Tirian's hovertank and Coyote's crazy six-legged mech in there. However... david raised the issue of distinct team colours on the Art Thread and I think it would be best if we made the Ix team colour a light silvery grey to stand out from the terrain and be distinct from the others. If we do that I might have to make the background of the flag match the colour. Would you mind if I changed it around like this?

off course not deliverator...

i kinda layed the basics....i figured you'd wanna change this...but i did my best

Leader/King Units and Heroes

Thinking more about hero units and regicide, I think the idea of your leader being a king unit in the game is a great one. If we proceed with this we need to come up with suitable powers and abilities for all our leaders.

It would also be good to have one or two other hero units per faction. Here are the Leaders and Heroes from the board game for starters. I've highlighted in bold the ones that would be Leader King units in Dune Wars. The other ones are potential candidates for faction heroes.

As the Atreides you play Paul Muad'Dib. Your heroes are Thufir Hawat, Lady Jessica, Gurney Halleck, Duncan Idaho and Dr. Yueh.

As the Fremen you play Dr. Kynes. Your heroes are Stilgar, Chani, Ortheym, the Shadout Mapes and Jamis.

As the Bene Gesserit you play Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Hohiam. Your heroes are Princess Irulan, Mother Romallo, Alia, Lady Fenring and Wanna Marcus.

As the Emperor you play Shaddam IV. Your heroes are Count Fenring, Captain Aramsham, Burseg, Caid, Bashar. (These last three are just military ranks and not that flavourful)

As the Harkonnen you play Baron Harkonnen. Your heroes are Feyd, Rabban, Piter de Vries, Captain Iakin Nefud, Umman Kudu.

As the Guild you play Edric. Your heroes are Staban Tuek, Esmar Tuek, Master Bewt, Soo Soo Sook, Guild Representative. (The smugglers and guild are sort of merged in the game)

yeah very cool,

i think someone once did a regicide code for civ4, but i never got aorund to work it.

perhaps koma13 can write this in sdk,
or someone else..

I've updated the opening post with factions and leaders as of Dune Wars 1.3.

Leader Units and Heroes continued...

Leaving aside the implementation of Leader units, hero units and regicide victory (I'll optimistically assume it's possible). I've tried to draw up a starter list of Leader Units and Hero Units for each faction.

It occured to me that there are some common traits or abilities among these leaders and heroes. These could become promotions/special abilities for them.

Mentat - MN - some benefit to research, some other benefits?
General - GN - gives abilities promotions to stacks or units enmasse.
Individual Fighter - IF - a powerful individual combat unit.
Preborn - PB - no ideas yet
Bene Gesserit - BG - there is already a thread about BG powers - there's no getting away from the fact that they're hard to make sense of as a Civ since they have representatives pretty much everywhere. The earliest Dune threads made this point.
Stealth - ST - stealthy movement

Certain characters such as Paul Muad'Dib have to have unique abilities really. One way to achieve gameplay balance, interest and theme consistency, is to make some factions have weak leaders, but powerful heroes (e.g. Atreides), while others have super-powerful leader units and weaker heroes (e.g. Fremen). So to take the analogy of chess, some factions have a King and a Queen, and others have a King and Queen rolled into one, and some Knights and Bishops.

Also, the distribution of characters into these roles is tricky. Several characters could arguably belong to two or three different factions. Anyway, these are just ideas and a starting point...

Atreides
Leader Units: Leto [GN]
Hero Units: Lady Jessica[BG], Thufir Hawat [MN], Gurney Halleck [GN/IF], Duncan Idaho [ST/IF]

Fremen
Leaders Units: Paul, Leto II [PB], Ghanima [PB]
Hero Units: Chani [IF], Ortheym [IF], Korba [IF]

Sietch Tabr
Leaders Units: Liet-Kynes, Stilgar [GN/IF]
Hero Units: Sayyadina Ramallo [BG], Jamis [IF]

Harkonnen
Leaders Units: Baron, Feyd [IF], Rabban [GN]
Hero Units: Piter de Vries [MN], Iakin Nefud[GN]

Corrino
Leaders Units: Shaddam IV, Irulan[BG]
Hero Units: Captain Aramsham [GN]

Bene Gesserit
Leaders Units: Mohiam [BG], Alia [BG/PB]
Hero Units: Wanna Marcus [BG]

Fenring
Leaders Units: Count Fenring [ST/IF]
Hero Units: Lady Fenring [BG]

Guild
Leaders Units: D'murr Pilru
Hero Units: The Tueks?

Tleilaxu
Leaders Units: Master Scytale
Hero Units: Facedancers?

Ix
Leaders Units: Hwi Noree
Hero Units: ?

Ordos
Leaders Units: Roma Atani [MN]
Hero Units: ?

Deliverator said:

I've updated the opening post with factions and leaders as of Dune Wars 1.3.

Click to expand...

How come you have a picture of the dude from Dark City with the name Hwi Noree? Hwi Noree was the *woman* ambassador that was sent by IX to Leto II to distract him. She was described as being very beautiful.

???

maglockm
hi!
welcome to dune wars,

good comment - we didnt know hwi was a woman (im still reading the book ...)

plus we had no idea what pic to use deliverator got this one so we used it - i remember reading on wiki that there was another ix ambassador - what was hes name?

do you have a suggestion on a hwi pic?

maglock said:

How come you have a picture of the dude from Dark City with the name Hwi Noree? Hwi Noree was the *woman* ambassador that was sent by IX to Leto II to distract him. She was described as being very beautiful.

Click to expand...

Yes, this happened because I went off and found a leaderhead pic before Keldath had actually produced the civ XML.

We can either find a male Ix Leader to use, or find a suitably beautiful techno lady that fits with the other leaders somewhere.

Deliverator said:

We can either find a male Ix Leader to use, or find a suitably beautiful techno lady that fits with the other leaders somewhere.

Click to expand...

Hm, beautiful techno lady. Will this cause people's heads to explode?

keldath said:

i remember reading on wiki that there was another ix ambassador - what was hes name?

Click to expand...

Malky is the other IX ambassador. From the Dune Wiki :

--
Malky was an Ixian ambassador to Arrakis during the reign of Leto Atreides II, the God-Emperor.

He was known to have unofficial dispensation to discuss taboo topics with Leto, because Leto was fond of him. He apparently possessed some special insight into Leto and his Golden Path.

At some stage, Malky was recalled to Ix. Shortly thereafter, Malky's neice, Hwi Noree, was sent to take his place. Upon Hwi's arrival on Arrakis, it was discovered that Malky was involved in Hwi's conception and development.

When it had been announced that Leto and Hwi were to wed, Malky was recalled to Arrakis by Leto, and murdered by Moneo Atreides, the God-Emperor's majordomo.

--

So the picture would do fine for Malky. He is described as "a cynical and roguish friend of the God Emperor" at his page in Wikipedia. Hwi Noree was apparently created using Malky's cells (DNA) in a no-room - to hide from the God Emperor's precience.

--

Hope this helps.

yeah! malky! thats the one,

i think it will just fine.

thanks a lot.

hehe david...

im a bit of a treki my self...that chick from voyager is the most good looking chick ever to be in star trek

The Bene Gesserit as a Civ nation can be given a lot of spy type units to represent that they have representatives everywhere. They should also easily get open borders with other nations.

Cheers,
Sword

davidlallen said:

Hm, beautiful techno lady. Will this cause people's heads to explode?

Click to expand...

Too well-known, I'm afraid. Plus: She was part of a series for four seasons - that makes it hard *not* to see Seven.

If she only had a single appearence or only appeared in a single film or so, it might have worked - but going against dozens of episodes is hard.

Cheers, LT.

Renaming the Ix Leader to Malky seems to be the way to go for now. If we find a suitable picture we can perhaps add Hwi as a second Ix leader.

yeah we need a less familiar woman pic..

seven is too familiar.