Question about terrain graphics

There are few land titles graphics for every terrain type. They seem to be placed randomly. Is there any way to customize it and place exact graphic I want in a place I want ?

They are not placed randomly, it follows an algorithm based on the location of the tile.

Basically, depending on the combination of 4 tiles, the program get the correct graphics for each corner. I wrote a small doc explaining how it works, I'm not sure I still have it.

If there are several possibilites, it will use one of them, depending if the column / line is odd, even, etc.

So you could in theory change the result by adding a column on the left. But it's difficult to do, because then it will affect ALL the tiles. So it may be better somewhere, but not so nice at another place.

Steph said:

They are not placed randomly, it follows an algorithm based on the location of the tile.

Basically, depending on the combination of 4 tiles, the program get the correct graphics for each corner. I wrote a small doc explaining how it works, I'm not sure I still have it.

If there are several possibilites, it will use one of them, depending if the column / line is odd, even, etc.

So you could in theory change the result by adding a column on the left. But it's difficult to do, because then it will affect ALL the tiles. So it may be better somewhere, but not so nice at another place.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Can u explain me more about column/line, odd/even rule ?

elenar said:

There are few land titles graphics for every terrain type. They seem to be placed randomly. Is there any way to customize it and place exact graphic I want in a place I want ?

Click to expand...

Yes. For that you can use the editor (the one that came with your game, or Steph's editor, for instance). From the editor, you can place special terrain, LM terrain, overlays and resources among others, on any map. Take a look at the tutorials for ideas. Also (I humbly add) take a look in my sig below to see some of the terrain that's possible if you can learn to modify the terrain files themselves. The new Old West map, for instance, has special features like the Grand Canyon, that was made from pieces put into the "craters" file. You'd be amazed at what you can do with terrain. There seems to be a new terrain graphics file every day in the graphics forum, and we've barely scratched the surface.

elenar said:

Thanks. Can u explain me more about column/line, odd/even rule ?

Click to expand...

I don't know the exact rule.

Try to make a full ocean map. Now place a grassland island. Delete it. Place it again at the same place: it will look the same. Delete, and place it a bit to the right, the shape may be different.

Steph said:

I don't know the exact rule.

Try to make a full ocean map. Now place a grassland island. Delete it. Place it again at the same place: it will look the same. Delete, and place it a bit to the right, the shape may be different.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I've noticed it. And I thought it was random because many places have it little different.
I am thinking of few graphic tiles composing one bigger picture (as if it was few times bigger one terrain feature). That's why it is kinda difficult because if I want to put that picture again in some place then I have to find right spot to make it look correct.

Thanks Balthasar. I am thinking of making new terrain with kind of new concept, but the files loook bit confusing. Some empty templates with explained terrain connections would be useful.

elenar said:

Thanks Balthasar. I am thinking of making new terrain with kind of new concept, but the files loook bit confusing. Some empty templates with explained terrain connections would be useful.

Click to expand...

One way to learn is to make an old terrain with an old concept. If you're making terrain, there are a few files you need to know more than others:

1. Base Terrain, with names like "xdgp": all of the main terrain files begin with an "x" or "lx", the "l" denoting landmark terrain which I'll discuss momentarily. After the "x" the types of terrain in that file are listed in the order they appear, in this example, desert, grassland and plains. xpgc is plains, grassland and coast. xtgc is tundra, grassland, and coast.

2. Landmark terrain, the terrain files that begin with "lx", are usually identical to the "x" files, but can be modified to great effect. For terrain other than base terrain, the landmark terrain files begin with "LM". Take a look, for example, at the "lx" and "LM" files in the "Lost Worlds" map that I did (it's in my sig below). There, I used landmark terrain to build mars. You have to be careful modding landmark terrain, though, because Mountains, hills and forests often use landmark terrain as their "base" terrain. It's why some green is peeking out from under the volcanoes on mars, although I've recently learned a trick that I used in the Old West Map of using the mountains files to cover the underlying terrain with a wider base to cover up that green. It was the only way to get mountains to blend with deserts.

3. The water files are the 'OOO' (Ocean) 'SSS' (sea) and CSO (coast, sea and ocean) with both "w" (for water I'm guessing) and "lw" (landmark) versions. On the Lost Worlds map, the Oceans are space, the Sea is actually underwater, and the Coast is everything else. The game seems to use regular and landmark terrain interchangeably, so it is true, for instance, that if you try to change any of the coastal tiles on the moon or mars on that map, you're likely to see a sea tile pop up out of nowhere, so it can get tricky. For the most part though, on most maps the big thing is deciding just what you want your oceans to look like. In the "Escape from Zombie Island" mod, for instance, all of the water is dark green.

4. The grasslands forests and plains forests files include jungles, fir trees, and tundra trees and their LM equivalents. You can have a lot of fun with these, but pay attention to the amount of space the trees occupy in each square. If you put too many trees into a space meant for just a few, they'll spill out over your coasts, for example. I changed the tundra forests into mountains for the moon in the "Lost Worlds" map, and pine forests into bamboo on my 'South Asia terrain". You can also affect the seasons with these trees; for example, my 'MidAtlantic Forests' are early fall, and my 'New York Autumn' set are late fall. I hope to do a winter and spring set one day...

5. The next set of files on the stack (did I tell you? These terrain files are in layers on the map, in roughly the order I'm describing them, which is why roads cover forests and rivers cover roads, but we'll get to that)... ahem..the next set of files are the Mountains, hills and Volcanoes. My favorites are Womoks mountains, but there are lots to choose from. You can also use these files to do some of what you're describing, combining smaller files to make larger ones. There's a tutorial called "Crater theory for modders" >here< that describes how you can manipulate these files to make larger objects, for instance, Pounder's Mount Fuji >see here< . In fact I used this very reference when making the Grand Canyon on my Old West Map.

6. Finally come the Overlays: the resources, goody huts, rivers, craters etc. (see the editor for a full list). These all sit on top, and I think there's a heirarchy where some sit on top of others, but I haven't figured that out yet. The floodplains file goes under the river when it crosses desert; I think Pounder was the first to use it to build up riverbanks and Goldfool turned that into canyon riverbanks, which I used in the Old West Map. The roads and railroads files are the most labor-intensive files, I think, in the game other than animations, as each contains hundreds of little road or railroad drawings that all have to link up. If you look really closely, you'll see that most modded roads have little breaks in them where the modder couldn't match up two sections of road, or (in my case) can't even tell which section of road doesn't match. It's a byotch. The railroads file has one extra line on it, so I use the railroads file as a template for both. See my Straightened roads for a variation on this, and my Victorian Rails & Roads for an example of how shadows can make a difference.

The resources sit on top of everything except for cities and units, and can be used for a lot of things. Keep in mind though, that each resource image is a maximum of only 50 x 50 pixels big, and sits directly in the middle of the square it's on, so you won't 'cover' anything with a resource file. But there are some very creative ways to use these files, for instance to add fish to the sea: or to, as Civinator does, add variety to pre-placed cities. See >here< .

As for how the files "fit" with one another, a great learning experience for me was making the Chessboard. Check those files out to see what the grassland and Plains files look like squared, and notice that the board border has it's own limitations... There is a template with all the base terrain shown as colored squares, but I remember it being wrong...

I haven't mentioned the TNT file, but there is a tutorial for that >here<. In fact, I'd recommend a good browse through the tutorials for more information on all of this.

Sorry to be so wordy, but I haven't written that all out before, and I wanted to see if I could.

Bal

Thanks both for the questions and the clear summaries. I've bookmarked them & will add to the modiki article I'm working on.

Edit: A tool I use when designing new terrain that would probably help with your project - especially with a pre-made map - is to make a version of the terrain with a big bright letter in the middle of each graphic. Then I can think through which ones have to blend into each other, or with surrounding terrains.

You can use a "Template" for any Terrain that you can make to know what Terrain or Roads/Railroads goes together on you map.

Simply make the File all one color rather than use the existing Terrain Images. You can color code each File by making each a different color and writing down the Code so you know what Terrain it is... to those files, add either a Letter or Number to see what Tiles go together in any area. If desired, You can also set the entire File transparent other than the Letter or Numbers you place on each Tile in the File.

Note that the way the game places some terrain, various Tiles will be overlapped and that can make it more difficult to see your Letters or Numbers so make them large enough so you can at least see enough of a letter or Number to know what it is.
Alternately, you can just add a Letter or Number to the Existing Terrain...depends on what you want to be able to see easily and know the difference...such as LM Terrain vs Normal Terrain. There, a color code would help you see that quickly.

Point is to set up a Good quick way of seeing each Terrain tile in the Bic or Biq and in the Game in order to be able to have control of each Tile for graphics reasons. When you know exactly what Tiles go together, IF you have any with problems such as the need to Blend the Tile Edges so they do not have Lines of demarcation, you can easily place those tiles together in a Graphics Editing Program and correct the problem for your terrain.
You can place all tiles concerned together as they are in the game and after adjusting them you can use another small Template that is just one tile set as all Transparent with only the Frame that shows, Paste it over each of the Tiles you have all together and copy each one exactly and save them. When the game places them together they will be as you adjusted them.

I will also say that generally speaking, when you Change Any Terrain you will also need to Adjust them All because all are combined and all go together. Depends on how natural and continuous you want your terrain to look... Natural blending and that go together well or spots that are abruptly and drastically different.

Thank you all for this valuable info. It helps a lot. I'll post later what thing I have in my mind and think of making.

For now I am thinking of using this feature in Starwars Mod, that is rising in my mind.

Years ago I already used this technic in making Civ2 Starwars mod (I never finished it before getting interested in Civ3)
Here is screenshot



I want to do it similar way and create optimal number of planets composed of four tiles, plus many one tile planets.

I was researching (in this forum) many ways to make AI work as I want it, learning many technics like preplaced wonders, resources, special units etc, plus some of my ideas. So, slowly vision of this mod created in my mind and I think of making it , especially if there does not seem to be many finished/polished up SW scenarios.

Beside making terrain work, another problem is lack of SW units. Maybe I could get help with that from unit making creators ? I know there are decent ones out there.

So this is what I have in mind, and thank you for all help.

(how do I upload screenshot to civfanatics ? I used imageshack but this will make the screenshot gone soon)

Edit: ..how bad I miss scripting, events.txt from civ2.. and double defense vs. mounted too..

You can also use photobucket.com to upload images and post the links here.

This is all a "journey" as one discovers the knowledge to do what they would like to do concerning creating Graphics and Games they desire using the CIV Game.
... and we all have "journeyed into the Twilight Zone" as we gained information as to what is possible as we attempted what we wanted

I am sure you will be able to make what you want. Just takes time and the desire to continue until you accomplish it... despite the things that happen along the way. Or in Other words... if you want something enough, you will find a way to satisfy your desire

elenar said:

(how do I upload screenshot to civfanatics ? I used imageshack but this will make the screenshot gone soon).

Click to expand...

??? I've been using imageshack for years and never had an image disappear without my intending it to, unlike files I've uploaded here. If you're really paranoid about imageshack, you can 1) upload a file to the downloads database here, 2) upload images directly from your computer to illustrate that file 3) link to the URLs of those files. 4) hope the CivFanatics file server can handle the extra load...

I've gotta warn you though, if your only copy of anything is here, it's like you've parked your bike outside without locking it up. Two and three copies of everything on different sites isn't too paranoid if you've done something you're proud of....

There is at least one StarWars mod (maybe more) here and hundreds of available Star Wars units, so you've got a really good start, anyway....

I have question about palette in terrain graphic files. Does all graphic files use same palette or different palette is allowed for every file ?

Vuldacon said:

I will also say that generally speaking, when you Change Any Terrain you will also need to Adjust them All because all are combined and all go together. Depends on how natural and continuous you want your terrain to look... Natural blending and that go together well or spots that are abruptly and drastically different.

Click to expand...

elenar said:

I have question about palette in terrain graphic files. Does all graphic files use same palette or different palette is allowed for every file ?

Click to expand...

Each file has it's own palette. As Vuldacon suggests, the various files should have a range of colors that lets them work well together, but they will each have their own distinct palette.

I will also add that because each Terrain "blends in" with other terrain and the terrain files have more than one type of terrain on them, such as Plains and Grassland, the palettes for each terrain file will contain many of the same colors that are in the other terrain files. The Trick is to have each terrain type be different yet Blend into all other types that they touch.
To accomplish this, you set the different types of terrain that are on each Terrain file together and make a palette that will be a combination of them for that file.

If you are making New Terrain, you will probably want to make each type separately then combine them, such as Plains and Grassland.

You can simply re-color and adjust each Terrain File as you like but IF you choose to make new Terrain with this method, be sure to apply all of the same procedures to all Terrain Files so they will continue to Blend together

Yea, definitely I need to plan palette before completing all the files. Thanks a lot for info

elenar said:

Yea, definitely I need to plan palette before completing all the files. Thanks a lot for info

Click to expand...

too many of us have posted something we thought was finished, only to be overwhelmed by everything others spotted that needed to be changed. & I'm only talking about the creative people whose opinions we respect. Far better to start a WIP (work in progress) thread. That's not just a tool for beginners either. Ares de Borg has one for his terrain work, to cite just one example directly relevant to your project. I'll be following it. & when you see me include

in my post, it means I'm patiently looking forward to seeing more.

Blue Monkey said:

too many of us have posted something we thought was finished, only to be overwhelmed by everything others spotted that needed to be changed. & I'm only talking about the creative people whose opinions we respect. Far better to start a WIP (work in progress) thread. That's not just a tool for beginners either. Ares de Borg has one for his terrain work, to cite just one example directly relevant to your project. I'll be following it. & when you see me include

in my post, it means I'm patiently looking forward to seeing more.

Click to expand...

Thank you. I think I will slowly gather my thoughts, make some sample, and start WIP thread

Does transparent color work by RGB value or by index in palette ? I mean if I change random color into that green (0,255,0) or pink (255,0,255) will it become transparent in editor ?