incremental patch discussion

Ahriman said:

These comments (and I kept adding some edits to post 375) were from the Archipelago script.

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Unfortunately, there is no way to remove obsolete files when creating a patch, we can only add new ones.

Deliverator has created a new mapscript, Dunipelago, which is supposed to replace Archipelago. Please stop using Archipelago. I will edit the release note to mention this.

Also, not to be a Thread Nazi, but please leave this thread for the software engineering discussions about when to make patches and what they should have; please put feedback into the modpack thread (preferred) or the 1.5 feedback thread. This reduces the number of threads we have to study, to make sure we have captured all the feedback.

The spice harvesters move! That is so awesome! I love it!

Deliverator has created a new mapscript, Dunipelago, which is supposed to replace Archipelago. Please stop using Archipelago. I will edit the release note to mention this.

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Oh, I didn't realize this was actually a different script. Doh. I thought it was just colloquial for the archipelago script for this mod
Sorry guys.

*edit*
The Duneipegalo looks much better. This is very much what I envisioned.
The improvement bugs are still there, and sink seems to be increasing movement costs (or just sink-graben?).

Ok, I will move feedback elsewhere, but I wasn't sure if this was "official" yet (I thought it was still exerpimental) and so didn't want to pollute the main feedback threads with feedback on an in-house test version.

Surface mine no longer buildable on flat, only on resources (AH87)

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Surface mine, deep mine and core mine should be buildable on resources and on mesa.

Here's another patch to fix a bunch of stuff with the new terrain set-up and add a couple of new bits. I'll call it 1.5.2 to keep things simple, it includes everything from 1.5.1 (link) and can be installed over 1.5 (link) or 1.5.1.

Fixes

+ Sink no longer gives +1 hammer
+ Sink no longer gives defensive bonus
+ Sink no longer costs 1 extra movement point
+ Sink no longer gives a visibility bonus
+ Rugged now gives +25% defensive bonus
+ Mesa now gives only +25% defensive bonus
+ Mesa no longer has an improvement build time modifier
+ Wells no longer buildable on Groundwater-less Sink tiles
+ Mines only buildable on Mesa and Bonuses
+ Turbines, Solar Farms, Cottages can now be built on Polar
(The above covers off issues AHR4, AHR5, AHR6, AHR8, AHR9)
+ Goody Huts no longer appear on Dunes (DV20)
+ Can no longer found cities on Salt
+ Fixed Dunipelago mapscript so that bonuses are properly placed

New Gameplay Additions

+ The Bene Gesserit Mother School (Palace) now produces the Unique Resource Sisterhood Covenant. This is required to build Reverend Mothers. Any civ obtaining Sisterhood Covenant from the BG can now build Reverend Mothers.

+ Added some missing Units from Ahriman's design (I've used different names from his):
- Swordmaster. Strength 18. Ignores city walls. +35% city attack. Requires Kindjal blades tech. (Uses japanese swordsman unit by danrell.)
- Missile Launcher. Strength 8. 1 movement, can bombard city walls, does collateral damage. Requires liquid fuel tech. (Uses WH40K Manticore by White Rabbit.)
- Devastator. Harkonnen UU. Replaces Heavy scorpion. Strength 35. 1 move. -30% city strength. Cannot enter peaks or hills. (Uses Cybertank by White Rabbit/C.Roland.)
- Sardaukar Legionary. Strength 14. Melee class. 1 move. Ignore city walls. +15% city attack. Requires Sardaukar Cooperation. National limit 10 Requires personal shields tech. (Uses quick and dirty Sardaukar reskin by yours truly.)

+ Included Arrakis mapscript version 0.52 for further playtesting

Art

+ Fixed various bonus resources so that they conform to the landscape
+ Reskinned Rock Arch feature from Age of Ice included - can be used to give the map more interest. Looks best on desert or graben IMO - lacks an icon.
+ Slightly tweaked Harvester improvement thanks to Lord Tirian

Renamed Units

Desert Raider -> Crysknife Fighter
Elite Bladesman -> Hardened Bladesman
Stealth Hornet -> Cielago (Bats are sort of stealthy and eat insects so it seems appropriate)

Maula Turret -> Assault Cannon
Maula Artillery -> Heavy Artillery
(A Maula Pistol fires poison darts - it was hard to imagine so many different variants of Maula launching devices)

Also, renamed the Tech Internment Camps -> Harsh Conditioning

Download Dune Wars 1.5.2

Please raise any issues in the modpack thread or the 1.5 feedback thread. I've not tested this very much, but hopefully it'll be OK...

Looks good!

Swordmaster. Strength 18.

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My problem with this name is that Swordmaster is a title earned by someone who has graduated from the Ginaz swordmaster school; it sounds like a name for someone who has the Ginaz training resource, not a generally available melee soldier available to any faction.

Otherwise these sound good.

Deliverator said:

+ The Bene Gesserit Mother School (Palace) now produces the Unique Resource Sisterhood Covenant. This is required to build Reverend Mothers. Any civ obtaining Sisterhood Covenant from the BG can now build Reverend Mothers.

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I agree with the UR and the name. I have locally added an *offworld* resource for this, which you can choose when you build a landing stage. Yours is like Fremen Water Debt, mine is like Sardaukar Cooperation. Which one is better? If it is better as an offworld resource I can add that into 1.5.3.

I think it is better to be from the palace; it isn't powerful enough to spend one of your two offworld resources on, I would probably rather have +2 happiness in all my cities.

davidlallen said:

I agree with the UR and the name. I have locally added an *offworld* resource for this, which you can choose when you build a landing stage. Yours is like Fremen Water Debt, mine is like Sardaukar Cooperation. Which one is better? If it is better as an offworld resource I can add that into 1.5.3.

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I also prefer the palace option. I think it is appropriate for the BG to get a small early advantage in trade negotiations.

My problem with this name is that Swordmaster is a title earned by someone who has graduated from the Ginaz swordmaster school; it sounds like a name for someone who has the Ginaz training resource, not a generally available melee soldier available to any faction.

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How about Kindjal Soldier or Kindjal Fighter? That fits the tech.

Also I forgot to rename the Kindjal resource to Swordmaster Training.

How about Kindjal Soldier or Kindjal Fighter? That fits the tech.

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Either is fine.

Also I forgot to rename the Kindjal resource to Swordmaster Training.

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Can we work Ginaz in there, for some extra flavor? Ginaz school training, and have the unit be Ginaz swordsmen?

I'll put up a patch 1.5.2b soon to fix the Aqueduct CTD and maybe fix a few more reported issues.

Please make sure you check the modpack thread too: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=335213

Not sure if people still want comments there or back in this forum.

I'll be checking that thread too, don't worry.

I think david's thinking is to keep bumping the modpack thread to keep Dune Wars near the top.

Deliverator said:

I think david's thinking is to keep bumping the modpack thread to keep Dune Wars near the top.

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Yes, exactly. If there is no post on there for a day, I will put something, just to bump.

Here's another patch mainly to fix a crash-to-desktop caused by the Aqueduct graphic - thanks to Ahriman for the help, and Koma for the breakthrough. I also took the opportunity for various other fixes/changes.

This is Dune Wars patch 1.5.3, it includes everything from 1.5.1 (link), and 1.5.2 (link) and can be installed over 1.5 (link) or 1.5.1 or 1.5.2.

Fixes/Changes

+ Qanat Building renamed to Mushtamal, uses Babylonian Garden graphic (to fix CTD - thanks Ahriman and Koma), cost reduced from 100 to 80 (AHR13)
+ The Great Mushtamal wonder renamed to Wet Planet Conservatory to avoid confusion
+ Polar tiles provide fresh water (AHR14)
+ Aquabore raised to +5 water to help later game growth, build time reduced from 1200 to 1000 (Deep Well is 800)
(AHR16,AHR21)
+ Core Mine build time reduced to same as Deep Mine (AHR16)
+ Spotter Control no longer requires landing stage (AHR19)
+ Defense Grid renamed to Guard Station, defense bonus reduced to 25%, is not obsoleted by Lasgun Weaponry (AHR20)
+ Force Shield defense bonus increased to 75% (AHR20)
+ Missile Launcher cost increased from 50 to 105, graphic reduced in size
+ Greenhouse and Water Refinery now add 15% water (AHR21 - increasing Settler cost seems complicated - it's not done like other units...)
+ Polar Ice gives +1 health (AHR21)
+ Water Seller renamed to Water Shipper, now yields +3 water (AHR21)
+ The Ixians spice firm was more profitable than all other civs (3.3 commerce per spice, rather than 3) - this seemed weird so I changed it to be the same as the others.
+ Turbines may now only be built on flatlands (AHR17) (this is weird conceptually - the best place for a wind turbine would be Mesa surely - perhaps we should rethink the role of Mines and Turbines a bit)
+ Swordmaster renamed to Kindjal Soldier
+ Shock Trooper renamed to Shield Fighter, now upgrades to Kindjal Soldier
+ Kindjal resource renamed to Ginaz School Training
+ Removed Bomb Shelter building - merged effects into Force Shield (AH110)
+ Archipelago mapscript is now a copy of Dunipelago - just in case anyone uses it by accident.
+ Ixian secondary colour is no longer white on very light grey, so that you can actually read their city populations when playing against them.

Download Dune Wars 1.5.3

Please raise any issues in the modpack thread or the 1.5 feedback thread.

Perhaps if this patch proves stable we can release to the download database and post on the modpack thread.

(this is weird conceptually - the best place for a wind turbine would be Mesa surely - perhaps we should rethink the role of Mines and Turbines a bit)

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I agree that its weird, we should certainly think about the improvement yields. But mines and windtraps on mesa and turbines/solar farms elsewhere works for now.

Polar tiles provide fresh water (AHR14)

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I don't seem to observe this in-game.

I thought it was the tag bFoundFreshWater in CIV4TerrainInfos.xml but that doesn't seem to do it after all.

That is quite a big list of bug fixes, thank you very much!

I know I am a little over-organized on this one, but I have updated the spreadsheet with all the feedback to date. Please find attached the latest issue spreadsheet. If there is any I have missed, please let me know. In particular, I cannot find several feedback items apparently entered by koma13 and deliverator. For example, I can hardly find any items KO2-KO9, but I see KO1 and KO10. Also I cannot find most DV items in DV10-DV19, but I see DV9 and DV20.

I have completed part of the work I wanted to do for the terraforming simplification / rewrite. I have also added the fake improvement for desalination. I will try to put up a 1.5.3 with these changes by Sunday morning my time. I will include the homeworld patch by koma13, and if there are any art tweaks to that I can add them as well.

Should we try to accomplish any other major things before 1.6? I think there are some major items we could try to do; here is a list.

* Wonder redesign
* City placement, initial and colony. I suggested to Cephalo that this may be a fun project, but he has not confirmed he is working on it.
* Religion rewrite. This has a painful graphics component, creating and pasting the 42 required graphics into the various locations including the fonts file, as well as an XML part and a python part.
* UU and UB design and implementation. I am reluctant to start this yet, but maybe it is time.

I can hardly find any items KO2-KO9, but I see KO1 and KO10

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I didn't know where I stopped counting, I just continued with KO10. There is no KO2-KO9.

* Wonder redesign

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We definitely are in need for some wonder movies or at least pictures, having only a message in main log is pretty lame.

* City placement, initial and colony. I suggested to Cephalo that this may be a fun project, but he has not confirmed he is working on it.

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When cephalo don't want to, I can give it a try.

koma13 said:

When cephalo don't want to, I can give it a try.

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Please give it a try. The initial city placement is controlled by the mapscript, obviously, and it may be unrelated to the AI city placement code.

ahriman said:

deliverator said:

Polar tiles provide fresh water (AHR14)

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I don't seem to observe this in-game.

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I had been meaning to publish some notes on how people can tweak the python. Now I have done so, you can see the new thread python how-to. Adding fresh water to all plots of a terrain type is not possible today, or at least I don't know how. Fresh water is controlled by features, not terrain. The improvements add an invisible fresh water feature. For some implementation details you can see the thread. We will have to leave this enhancement open (undone) for now.