Civilizations, Leaders and Traits

Having each civ their own thread makes it easier to flesh them out.

Can we replace Alia with Sheena, Murbella or Raquella for the BG-sisterhood? she really doesnt fit with them. Bieing what she is, a preborn consious bieing, the sisterhood would never allow her to live.
An idea for an UU is the valkyrie. According to wiki they where trained with BG, HM and Ginazswordmaster techniques.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene_Gesserit
 
well, i do like having alia as a leader, it adds to the game theme,

but,

i tend to agree that her place isnt a bene gesserit leader.

what do you think? maybe making her as the atredis leader? after all she lead the house after paul was gone...

valkyrie sounds nice.
 
she didnt really lead the atreides anymore. she fits more with the jihadist/imperial fremen. For the atreides I would either take Jessica or the first atreides Vorian who fought against his father (one of the titans) in the butlerian jihad.

I'd go with Jessica if you needed a second Atreides leader. Thats kind of the point; she falls in love with Leto and betrays her role as BG by giving him a son.

Agree that Alia makes more sense as Fremen than BG also.
 
David asked for ideas for unique mechanics for Corrino and Ix. Some of these ideas are compiled from this thread:

CORRINO ideas

+ For the Sardaukar, I like the idea that they are powerful but slow in the Dune environment. They should also be quite expensive to maintain with the life of comfort and decadence that they expect.
I would like their to be a way that you can build up levels of UBs that represent building up Sardaukar legions and the instantly deploy them en masse to a location on the map. So the Corrino game plan becomes build up your Sardaukar reserves which should be expensive, and then try and use them decisively when you are ready to strike. Depending how the homeworld idea pans out, you could pay the Guild to buy Sardaukar reserves from Kaitain.

+ At present we have dropped House Fenring. I'm fine with this, as I think all the sneaky, assassin type stuff fits equally well with Ordos. House Fenring does not really have any background information in the Dune canon, whereas Count Fenring himself does. Why not make Fenring a hero unit for Corrino using the respawning technique discussed on the Heroes thread? His abilities can be to assassinate other national units/hero units/weakened units as well as some diplomatic abilities to incite war or stop wars if he is sent on embassy to a particular civ.

+ Cultural/Influence advantages.

IX ideas

+ I like the use of super computers to boost research, but it would be cool if some how if you pushed the thinking machine research too hard, then round two of the Butlerian Jihad was declared against you and you suddenly find yourself at war with pretty much everyone, or severe diplomatic penalties.
+ Ix should also have some technology based promotions for mechanical/vehicle units, smart targeting, more devastating weapons, better engines, etc.
+ Ix should have reduced price upgrades.
+ Cymeks could have a small % chance to create another Cymek on victory that keeps the target unit's promotions. (Borg rip-off.)
 
Does anyone remember the Ixian specially bred workers from Prelude to Dune? I forget the name, but these could be an Ixian UU worker replacement with only 1 movement point but +50% work rate.
 
Random ideas for UUs/UBs:

Ordos Trike. Replaces Quad (early game mobile unit). Has +1 movement rate or +20% withdraw chance.

Atreides Sonic tank. Replaces medium scorpion. Does collateral damage.

Harkonnen Devastator. Replaces heavy scorpion. 25% higher base strength level (=50?) but only 1 movement point.

Bene Tl Facedancer. Replaces mentat assassin. Steels 1 promotion from any unit it defeats in combat (a la FFH mimic).

Bene Tl Axolotl Tank. UB, requires Genetic Manipulation tech. Gives +50% GPPs.

Fish Speaker. High level infantry unit, requires the Golden Path religion.

As current;
Worm rider
Fedaykin
Sardaukar
Xian walker/cymek/avatar.
Suggestion: maybe the Fremen/Ixian/Corrino/etc palaces should automatically provide 1 free copy of their natural free resource?
So you can get extra from a Landing stage and trade them, but each faction will always be guaranteed to be able to build their own special units.

Spacing guild
Rather than the hard-to-balance mechanic of having the trade guild units cost gold and having their spice guild be spreadable by executive, why not create a Guild-only national wonder that functions as a second spice corp hq, turning more spice into gold?
So we end up having 1 spice corp for each faction, +1 more for the CHOAM religion shrine, +1 more for the Trade Guild civ? It could come with the Spacing Guild tech.
 
Suggestion: maybe the Fremen/Ixian/Corrino/etc palaces should automatically provide 1 free copy of their natural free resource?
So you can get extra from a Landing stage and trade them, but each faction will always be guaranteed to be able to build their own special units.

The Fremen palace does provide three copies of its unique resource automatically. The Ixian and Corrino unique resources cannot be selected by any other player. So Ix/Corrino can always build a landing stage to get its resource. It may be that they would choose some other resource first, but they are the only ones who can get it. If Ix/Corrino is not in a particular game, then any civ can select their resource, but only the first one will get it.
 
A thought:
I'm currently reading Paul of Dune. Mediocre, but still fun.
Why is Duke Prad Vidal the Ecaz leader? He is just a nobleman who rebels against the Archduke during the conflict with Grumman, and is then executed/assassinated by Duke Leto Atreides.
The leader of Ecaz is Archduke Armand.
 
This was me. I read the last note on this and thought Duke Prad sounded more interesting. I'm happy for it to be changed to Archduke Armand. More importantly, I need to change the Ecaz civ colour from lilac to the turquoise vacated by the Guild.
 
Huh, looks like the authors goofed.
Well, I'd still probably go with Armand; looks like he is there for 3 books vs 1.
 
I'm not sure if this has been settled, but I just wanted to throw in a quick suggestion. The first Fremen (Chouhada Fremen now, I guess) seems to be made up of solely leaders from after House Atreides gained the imperial throne. I was always under the impression that Paul's empire didn't really count as being Fremen; a major theme of the next 3 books was how the Fremen had become "water-fat" and lost almost all of their previous traits in a matter of years after Paul became emperor. By the time of Leto II, this would be quite pronounced, and considering it a Fremen empire would be absurd.
This is why I figure that this faction should be considered separate from the earlier Fremen, and probably be called something else entirely. I believe "the Mahdiate" was used to describe the new power structure in Dune: Messiah (sort of analogous to "the Kingdom," I suppose). Anyway, I just feel that would be more suitable, but I can see why you'd want to keep it as Fremen. It would also make it a little easier to fit Alia as a leader (though she really doesn't fit anywhere, I guess).
 
Hi Fallen Phoenix. Welcome to Dune Wars.

The opening post isn't up to date with the current state of the civs. As of 1.4.8 there is only one Fremen faction with Liet-Kynes and Stilgar as the leaders. The Atreides now have Leto I, Paul and Leto II as leaders.

It is tricky to choose which leader goes where in a universe with so many divided loyalties. I think Alia probably should be Atreides too, since she is at no point loyal to the Bene Gesserit in the books, but 4 leaders for one faction might be excessive. I've also thought of having two incarnations of Paul - one an Atreides leader and one as Muad'Dib for the Fremen - maybe we could add some code to ensure that both incarnation can't appear in the same game.
 
So, we're getting to the stage where we want to start differentiating the factions. Here are some brainstorm ideas:

First, 9 factions feels a bit small. Maybe we should consider eliminating one of the religions (the way of Shai-Hulad isn't that interesting), or add another faction.

Atreides:
Themes: honorable, benevolent, diplomatic, respected, air power, quality > quantity, vendetta with harkonnen
Preferred civics: hereditary rule -> theocracy, Kanly, private property, free trade, Arrakis paradise
Preferred religion: Qizarate (golden path)
Unique mechanics:
An intrinsic +3 diplomacy benefit with all factions except Tleilaxu (no change) and Harkonnen (-3 penalty).
I dislike the "free units" for Atreides, I think it makes little sense; it makes then a quantity army with poorly
Unique stuff:
An improved falcon thopter, strength 10 rather than strength 8.
An improved desert airfield, that comes at an earlier tech (air power rather than aerial combat), and gives a free "skilled pilots" promotion (+10% strength) to all hornets and thopters produced in that city. Or just combat 1 or more xp.
A sonic tank, replaces the medium scorpion. Possible changes: does collateral damage, maybe slightly lower base strength but bonuses vs guardsmen and melee (sonic waves more effective vs infantry than vehicles, very weak vs aircraft).
Atreides heir; gives +20% defense bonus to all units in stack.

Harkonnen:
Theme: brutality, slaves, militaristic, treacherous, power-hungry, vendetta with atreides, soviet-style army: quantity and heavy tanks
Preferred civics: slavery, planned economy, Arrakis spice
Preferred religion: Landsraad/CHOAM
Unique mechanics:
-3 diplomacy penalty with Atreides.
Slave mechanic from combat, as current. This is quite powerful. Maybe we could increase the slaves to 2 moves, but decrease the chance of generating one from combat.
Also, the slave should appear in the tile of the harkonnen unit, not the tile of the unit they kill.
Unique stuff:
Devastator heavy tank.
Maybe a heavy roller as well with higher strength, or extra first strikes? The devastator is very very late-game.
Maybe some improved artillery/siege units; an improved assault cannon or missile launcher
Maybe a factory of some kind that gives a military production bonus, and/or free xp to vehicle units: Forgeworks, at desert industry tech, gives +10% military production and +2 xp to newly created vehicles.
Slave pit building as current.

Ordos:
Themes: espionage/sabotage, hit-and-run, light-fast-attack units, mercenary, profit-seeking
Preferred civics: war of assassins, serfdom, mercantilism
Preferred religion:
Unique mechanics:
These guys will really need some bonus espionage missions in order to become interesting. This is probably hard to do, both manipulating the espionage missions *and* getting the AI to understand how to use them. Some possible ideas:
i) Sabotage units. Damages every hostile unit in the tile by 10% damage (maximum 50% damage). AI will only use it against factions that they are at war with.
Maybe they could use the FFH/Fall Further "raider" trait, which gives a raider promotion to their units, which automatically pillages any tile their units move into (in territory of units they are at war with). Or at least get a +50% gold bonus from pillaging.
Unique stuff:
Saboteur. Infiltrator replacement but starts with 2 moves.
Deviator. assault cannon replacement, but with a bombardment ability, that can add a "confused" promotion to enemy units (with 20% chance), that prevents them from attacking , and wears off with 75% chance after each turn.
Trike: quad replacement with 20% higher base withdraw chance.
A replacement assassin bureau building, with an even higher espionage output (16?).


Ecaz:
Themes: trade, others??
Preferred civics: hereditary rule, free trade
Preferred religion: Landsraad/CHOAM
Unique mechanics:
Can build a third landing stage, getting 3 total trade good contracts.
Unique stuff:
Unique building that gives extra trade route/trade route income bonus.

Corrino:
Themes: Emperor, Sardaukar (best assault troops), traditional, political, militaristic rather than trade, preserve the status quo
Preferred civics: imperium, imperial fealty, faufreluches, arrakis spice
Preferred religion: Imperium
Unique mechanics:
Unable to adopt Qizarate, messianism, Tl Supremacy or Technocracy religions.
Superior access to offworld troop imports - maybe a faster refresh rate of their pool?
Unique stuff:
Sardaukar troops and imperial militia and trooper, as current.
An improved tribunal building that gives extra maintenance reduction , or a UB national wonder that acts as another Forbidden palace?

Bene Gesserit:
Themes: manipulative, influential, rule-from-the-shadows, pacifist tendencies
Preferred civics: meritocracy, great convention (culture bonus)
Preferred religion: any
Unique mechanics:
Spies can perform a mission that acts like an Influence-driven-war pillage.
Ability to manipulate religions; can BG somehow get an extra +2 culture per turn for each religion present in their cities?
Unique stuff:
Reverend mother (as current). Maybe the reverend mother should also detect invisible units (so its hard to use infiltrators on BG).
Unique building (Bene Gesserit): Missionaria Protectiva. +1 culture. Gives +2 culture +1 happy per religion present in the city.
others?
Maybe some unique buildings with culture bonuses: BG should be best placed to win a cultural = "political" victory.

Fremen:
Themes: desert warriors, little technology (scavenged), powerful melee, water discipline, raiders, worm transport.
Preferred civics: theocracy, water discipline, arrakis paradise.
Preferred religion: messianism/jihad
Unique mechanics:
Sandrider infantry units (as current, but should also apply to guardsmen units).
Cannot build most siege units, vehicles and aircraft. When destroying a thopter, hornet, siege or vehicle in combat, have a 25% chance of capturing it.
Need AI changed so that they can launch amphibious assaults without transports.
Melee infantry start with thumper promotion? See discussion here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=335213&page=2 (starts post 33, goes onto next page
Unique stuff:
Deathstill (as current)
Crysknife fighter, sandrider, fedaykin (as current)
Maybe a few more to replace not being able to build roller, hornets, thopters and scorpions?

Ix:
Themes: technology, computerization, industry,
Preferred civics: planned economy
Preferred religion: technocracy
Unique mechanics:
Technocracy religion buildings benefit from Thinking Machines trade good.
Unique stuff:
Ixian walker units, as current.
Maybe an earlier game hammer boosting building? Factory and the technocracy ones are quite late.

Bene Tleilaxu:
Themes: xenophobic, isolationist, religious, bioweapons, biological research, distrusted by all
Preferred civics: theocracy
Preferred religion: Tleilaxu supremacy (can't adopt any others)
Unique mechanics:
Unique religion (founded very early, can only be adopted by them, spread automatically to any new cities they found, no missionaries - so cannot easily be spread to conquered cities). Cannot adopt any other religion.
Priest focused specialists (unique buildings give priest slots, shrine boosts priests)
Tleilaxu plague (see discussion http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=335213&page=5 post 87 onwards)
Ghola creation (building powerful units: newly created units have the same xp as the highest xp unit you have lost of that type)
Unique stuff:
Facedancer (acts like Balseraph mimic from FFH: steals a promotion from any unit it defeats)
Axolotl tanks. Gives GPP bonus and allows ghola creation.

We need more ideas, but thats a few more for now.

Thoughts, suggestions?
 
I thought of an alternative mechanic for Tleilaxu gholas; use the FFH-style immortality mechanic; immortality fits well, but balancing it was tricky.
It would take some complex coding though.

When an axolotl tank is built in a city, the *next* unit (and only the next) built in that city gains the Ghola promotion, which functions the same as the FFH immortailty trait (when killed, the unit is ressurected in the capital city).

Thus, you can get 1 immortal ghola per city with an axolotl tank.

Alternative implementation: when you build an axolotl tank, give the ghola promotion to the unit the player has with the highest level of experience who does not already have the ghola promotion.
 
Ecaz is looking a bit thin. Some ideas raised before:

Here are some entries from the appendix of Dune.

ECAZ: fourth planet of Alpha Centauri B; the sculptors' paradise, so called because it is the home of fogwood, the plant growth capable of being shaped in situ solely by the power of human thought.

SAPHO: high-energy liquid extracted from barrier roots of Ecaz. Commonly used by Mentats who claim it amplifies mental powers. Users develop deep ruby stains on mouth and lips

SEMUTA: the second narcotic derivative (by crystal extraction) from burned residue of elacca wood. The effect (described as timeless, sustained ecstasy) is elicited by certain atonal vibrations referred to as semuta music.

ELACCA DRUG: narcotic formed by burning blood-grained elacca wood of Ecaz. Its effect is to remove most of the will to self-preservation. Druggee skin shows a characteristic carrot color./ Commonly used to prepare slave gladiators for the ring.

VERITE: one of the Ecaz will-destroying narcotics. It renders a person incapable of falsehood.

Looking at the examples given above it also gave me the idea for House Ecaz. You don't have to read too much between the lines to assume that the inhabitants of Ecaz are the drug barons of the Duniverse. You go to the Ixians for your machines, the Tleilaxu for your genetic engineering and to Ecaz for your narcotics. If we create them as a faction then their spaceport can produce twice as many imported goods as the other factions, giving them a higher happy cap, more trade opportunities and potentially access to certain units.

From the Dune Encyclopedia, it's worth reading the full Ecaz entry, and Ecaz, Plants of:

"The Greenhouse Planet," first discovered in 8112 B.G. It was listed as a nondescript planet with a humid atmosphere, moderate temperatures, shallow inland seas covering vast areas of the two main continents and the customary large variations between the equator and the poles. Ecaz soon became the fief of House Plana and gained a reputation as a botanical bonanza: the humidity, more than the warmth, accounted for its unparalleled profusion of plantlife. House Plana sponsored extensive research laboratories in an attempt to catalog and breed useful strains of some of the more intriguing plants: all methods were used, including forced mutation and spraying of controlled environments with mutagenic compounds.

The atomic release of the mutagenic microbes of House Plana had resulted in a flora run wild in the thousands of years of isolation. Most of the animal life of the planet had died, except for the insects: In addition, there had been a complete elimination of hardwood plants and considerable dieback among all plants with life-cycles of more than one or two local seasons. But the niches vacated by the extinction of the more long-lived plants did not stay vacant for long. Entirely new forms of plant life had arisen on Ecaz: many were totally unknown and so phenomenal that the explorers were ridiculed by their colleagues, even when they presented specimens.

So, in addition to being our trade faction I think we should be using the rich and varied planet life of Ecaz as part of their theme. In a universe where narcotic use is respectable Ecaz is the source of many of the most sought after narcotics.
 
For Corrino, as mentioned before, it would be interesting to give them some ability to incite or stop wars between other factions.
 
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