FfH2 Bug Thread

[to_xp]Gekko;8547943 said:

it's working as intended. instead of giving you free XP they annoy you, that's how it's supposed to be. change your tactics accordingly

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I don't play annoying games, as a rule; I've got too many other things to do. Poor game design, IMHO. ..fritz..

Fritzworth said:

I don't play annoying games, as a rule; I've got too many other things to do. Poor game design, IMHO. ..fritz..

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I like it.

Broken Hawk said:

I've experienced the same thing as Fritz except the barbs eventually get around to pillaging and attacking your cites. If this is intended like you say, change tactics or exit the game early.

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It cause one very very wide smile in my face. That is how barbarians should work - pillage and looting but no sieging or attacking fortified cities.

Thnx, Sephi and Kael!

Here's a really strange one. The bloodpet near Renegade Hill has been trying to scout Orc lands for at least a dozen turns, but he keeps moving back toward Renegade Hill. After hitting the "end turn" button, I'll find him closer to the city with movement expended as if he'd had an auto move queued (but he didn't).

You may need to play a turn or two to duplicate the problem, or maybe it's something just on my machine .

scutarii said:

It cause one very very wide smile in my face. That is how barbarians should work - pillage and looting but no sieging or attacking fortified cities.

Thnx, Sephi and Kael!

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Agreed - No barbarian would ever assault a fortified city, unless they were in such huge numbers that they had a good shot at it. I think they'd be much more likely to raid isolated hamlets (Improvements) and take out small divisions of troops (Unguarded units).

has anyone seen a horseman, or anything for that matter, actually retreat from battle with the latest patch, cause i haven't.

is it possible the new mechanic is broken...?

on the same note, playing hippus, horselord doesn't really seem to be improving my reported retreat odds, in the combat outcome popup, over my last game as malakim. i'm not seeing the supposed 10 percent boost, but that may just be my inferior powers of observation.

edit
okay i take that back, out of about 40-50 battles with retreat capable troops, i have now seen exactly 1 retreat. something seems wrong.

With the new barbarians abundant me thinks its time for a new Great Wall type wonder

Fritzworth said:

FFH 2.41i -- Barbarian AI change: bug or feature?

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So let me get this straight. You play with the OPTIONAL settings of Raging Barbarians and Barbarian World, and then complain that there are too many barbarians!?

Tholal said:

So let me get this straight. You play with the OPTIONAL settings of Raging Barbarians and Barbarian World, and then complain that there are too many barbarians!?

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He actually said that he tried it without these settings, too.

Inkling said:

has anyone seen a horseman, or anything for that matter, actually retreat from battle with the latest patch, cause i haven't.

is it possible the new mechanic is broken...?

on the same note, playing hippus, horselord doesn't really seem to be improving my reported retreat odds, in the combat outcome popup, over my last game as malakim. i'm not seeing the supposed 10 percent boost, but that may just be my inferior powers of observation.

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Catapults are retreating fine, and AI centaurs withdrew from attacking me a couple times.

WCH said:

Catapults are retreating fine, and AI centaurs withdrew from attacking me a couple times.

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no one had replied so i just edited the original post slightly right before you replied. i finally saw a retreat, but only one. either the random number generator hates me(which i actually know it does) or something isn't quite working right, especially since i am hippus - horse lords, which should be better able to retreat.

mutant-enemy said:

He actually said that he tried it without these settings, too.

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Actually, he only said that he turned off Raging Barbarians. Barbarian World still slaps down a lot of barbarian cities, which can end up being quite numerous depending on map size and number of players. And each of those cities is churning out troops on a regular basis, only now, instead of those troops just randomly throwing themselves at your cities while your troops snack on cheese and wine behind the walls, they actually do stuff that you may not like (they are barbarians after all).

I think a lot of people here have gotten too used to bumping up their difficulty settings across the board. Scale things back a bit and try the new version. Deity should not be the default difficulty setting (and please note that both of the above-mentioned Barbarian options are there for ADDED difficulty).

And just for the record, I used to play with both Raging Barbarians and Barbarian World myself. I now just use the Barbarian World option (unless I'm feeling masochistic), and I know that I still need to prepare for barbarian trouble and make sure I have some troops available that can leave the city to meet the barbarians in the field before they pillage my lands. If I don't want to deal with that sort of early-game fight for survival, then I leave the barbarian options unchecked (crazy idea!).

Tholal said:

So let me get this straight. You play with the OPTIONAL settings of Raging Barbarians and Barbarian World, and then complain that there are too many barbarians!?

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Nope, not complaining that there are too many barbarians -- just that instead of attacking the city, they simply camp out around it in ever increasing numbers. It's actually a pretty dramatic shift in early game mechanics and done for no good reason that I can think of. (If it was done to make things "tougher", that's a sign of a lazy game designer.)

And for those who feel this is somehow more 'historical' -- nope, not really. Go read Herodotus as well as some of the Roman histories (I have). One or two barbarian units passing by or wandering off if the city looks too tough, I could buy. Having 7-10 barbarians units all within a few squares of the city and not attacking it make no sense either from a historical sense or from a game design perspective. IMHO. YMMV. Close cover before striking. ..fritz..

P.S. Since this appears to be a deliberate change and not an inadvertent side effect, this discussion should move elsewhere.

The barbarians do wander around cities an awful lot, plundering improvements (which they should), and only attacking the city occasionally. The defending tactics needs to be changed accordingly. There just isn't much glory hiding in a city, collecting XP's without much risk as raging hordes immolate themselves launching hopeless assaults. The new difficulty is that you now have to maneuver/position your units outside the city and ambush the pesky barbs when they stray to plunder farms. It's more work but XP's also accumulate faster this way. After that, when you have enough military oomph (ergo copper + axemen), you steamroll the stragglers and start conquering barb cities. It's different but it works.

Fritzworth said:

Nope, not complaining that there are too many barbarians -- just that instead of attacking the city, they simply camp out around it in ever increasing numbers. It's actually a pretty dramatic shift in early game mechanics and done for no good reason that I can think of. (If it was done to make things "tougher", that's a sign of a lazy game designer.)

And for those who feel this is somehow more 'historical' -- nope, not really. Go read Herodotus as well as some of the Roman histories (I have). One or two barbarian units passing by or wandering off if the city looks too tough, I could buy. Having 7-10 barbarians units all within a few squares of the city and not attacking it make no sense either from a historical sense or from a game design perspective. IMHO. YMMV. Close cover before striking. ..fritz..

P.S. Since this appears to be a deliberate change and not an inadvertent side effect, this discussion should move elsewhere.

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Sorry, I don't agree. I've read a lot of Greco-Roman history also - 'barbarians' were often very smart and and will try to use their advantages. Attacking fortified cities was rare.

Where does Herodotus talk about barbarians attacking cities and taking outragous losses to do so? Where do the Roman historians say this?

For instance, In Livy, we see the hill people like the Volscians clearly favoring the hills and adopting their tactics. Indeed, in the ancient world attacking cities (especially walled cities) was practically never done - this stymied the Greeks (during the Peloponnesian War only 2 cities were taken 'directly'. Of course, treachery, that's a differnt issue...). So, Sparta with t heir superior army had no way to take Athens directly which lead tot he war largely fought over colonies and allies. Hannibal's inability to take fortified cities was his undoing - he beat Roman army after Roman army but he didn't have a siege train and taking the large cities was too difficult (and with Roman control of the seas they were hard to starve out). This allowed Fabius to turn to his famous delayign tactivs, because Hannibal couldn't direct action.

I'm a believer that barbarians were actually pretty smart,

However, I do agree that the 'barbarians' often didn't have storng organizational skills. It was very hard for them to coordinate the kinds of armies they do now in FfH, but it was also hard for the civilizations to do that!

I also think saying that skeletons can gather for an attack is a little different! Skeletons have adopted army tactics?

Best wishes,

Breunor

Playing on patch "i" and noticing these two issues: AI not promoting units when able to (feature of AI improvement?) and also this (fatal) issue: AI not completing turn (see attached save). When I end my turn, the AI never finishes its next turn. Sorry I didn't figure out how to turn python messages on...

Thanks for the help!

Smarter barbarian AI makes sense for some of the barbarians, but the ramifications on the rest of the game are worth considering.

I can deal with the new barbarian AI as a player by being crafty, but so far, the AI can not. The huge barbarian stacks trap them in their cities and prevent most of the nations from expanding. So the AI is harder but the enemy nations are actually weaker than in games with the previous AI. I expect this is an unintended consequence.

THiS iS A THREAD FOR BUGS

start a new thread if you want to debate the barbarians, or go to this thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=338269

Turinturambar said:

In the cannot train function in cvgameutils.py there is some code that sensibly tries to prevent the AI from building privateers if the majority of other AIs can build advanced ships that can easily beat them:

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Thanks Turinturambar. I checked in your fix.

Sephi said:

I saw that my changes to iAIWeight XML tag in Civicinfos haven't been merged. Not sure if this is intended or an oversight so I post it here.

another thing missing, I changed which free techs the AI gets in handicap info. (agriculture instead of ancient chants on prince for example)This could explain why some people report that the AI is vulnerable to barb attacks early.

also changes to aitrademodifiers for mana resources and aiweights in unitinfos (both XML)

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I checked in a lot of your XMl changes where I found them. I'll check these out. Im especially interested to see your feedback and updates to AI (of course) so keep letting me know what can be improved.

Jenaelha said:

Python error after reloading a saved game.

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "CvGameInterface", line 313, in AI_PermDefensePromotion
File "CvGameUtils", line 4792, in AI_PermDefensePromotion
UnboundLocalError: local variable 'iBestSpell' referenced before assignment

Also something strange never seen before path H ... when selecting the next Tech to research, it looks like the list is cleared but it falshes back for a bit before closing.

Edit: This was with patch I (at least I think I patched to I)

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I think this was patch "h" as I think I already fixed this and that line number isnt anywhere near the iBestSpell variable anymore.

denev said:

patch "i" SDK

Code:

bool CvUnitInfo::readPass3()
{
	if (m_aszExtraXMLforPass3.size() < 1)
	{
		FAssert(false);
		return false;
	}
	[COLOR="Red"]m_iPrereqCiv = GC.getInfoTypeForString(m_aszExtraXMLforPass3[0]);[/COLOR]
	m_iUpgradeCiv = GC.getInfoTypeForString(m_aszExtraXMLforPass3[1]);
	m_aszExtraXMLforPass3.clear();
	return true;
}

Red marked line is deleted and getPrereqCiv() function obsoletes.
Is this intentional?

Please help. Thanks.

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This is a great catch! thanks, I'll get it fixed.

Skitters said:

Last night and tonight I tried starting new custom games (patch i) using the End of Winter option - in both instances the game started up, but no ice. After settling my first city the game then just hangs. Last night I gave it around 10 minutes before switching my pc off and saw that tiles started to change to ice terrain during that time.

This would be using the Erebus mapscript.

Just wondering if the AI changes have somehow changed End of Winter so that is now worked out after the placement of the first city, rather than before we first see the map?

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I'll check it out. This may have fallen victim to the regenerate function being added.

Jenaelha said:

Ok, I wasn't going to mention this because it was too freaky, but to follow your lead...
Playing as the Gregori I got two different Techs mysteriously "granted" during one long game. No hut, no trade, not researched. Just out of the blue, one at a time, their tech discovery screen appeared in the game. Another weird thing was my hero's, 4 of them, each got a single large promotion granted to them on the same turn for no apparent reason. Now, maybe there is a astrological event or something that does this that i've never seen before, but I couldn't explain it.
Like I said, freaky.

I wonder if you had been "granted" FOL when your disciple appeared?

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It sounds like you may have the Eyes and Ears network. That gives you any tech 3 other civs know so it tends to popup form time to time. It would be really nice if I explained that somewhere on the popup.

Sephi said:

I disabled one AItweak before the Merge because I couldn't figure out why it causes crashes. This is the corrected version. Fixes an issue with Heros not able to join groups (and maybe a few others also). it is in void CvUnit::joinGroup(CvSelectionGroup* pSelectionGroup, bool bRemoveSelected, bool bRejoin)

Spoiler code :

Code:

/*************************************************************************************************/
/**	BETTER AI (Stop some groups from forceseperating) Sephi                        	            **/
/**																								**/
/**						                                            							**/
/*************************************************************************************************/
/** orig code

				if (bWasHead)
				{
/**/
                bool bvalid=true;

                if (pSelectionGroup!=NULL && pSelectionGroup->getHeadUnit())
                {
                    if (AI_getGroupflag()==GROUPFLAG_CONQUEST && pSelectionGroup->getHeadUnit()->AI_getGroupflag()==GROUPFLAG_CONQUEST)
                    {
                        bvalid=false;
                    }
                }

                if (bWasHead && bvalid)
                {
/*************************************************************************************************/
/**	END                                                                  						**/
/*************************************************************************************************/

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Thanks Spehi, checked in.

Fritzworth said:

I don't play annoying games, as a rule; I've got too many other things to do. Poor game design, IMHO. ..fritz..

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The issue was that the barns being so easy to pick off made hunting them for xp to rewarding with the increased xp and increased value of promotions in FfH. It made it impossible to balance as long as this strategy still worked. I'd recommend dropping your difficulty level, which will increase your bonus vs barbs.

ClownPrince said:

Playing on patch "i" and noticing these two issues: AI not promoting units when able to (feature of AI improvement?) and also this (fatal) issue: AI not completing turn (see attached save). When I end my turn, the AI never finishes its next turn. Sorry I didn't figure out how to turn python messages on...

Thanks for the help!

Click to expand...

I'll check it out.

Playing with different numbers of friends, ranging from 2 to 6 players, and multiple AI.

We tend to get through 70+ turns and then it desyncs, reading numbers sometimes one person is out of sync sometimes more. In our 6 player game 3 did, unsure what three.

We never saw this under patch G, and now when we re load a game it waits a turn or 2 and desyncs again.

In our 2 player game we played to turn 190, saved, and took it up again 2 days later, after 2 turns it desynced. Re loaded from the original save, desynced 1 turn later. So I loaded alone, played 2 turns, saved then had the other player come in, within 2 turns it desynced.

Every MP game we have all played since the patch has started doing this. When we never saw it asside from a player switching to hyborem/basium before.

Currently reinstalling entire game and mod.

Has anyone seen this or know what may be causing it? a problem with patching over old patches?