ARCHIVED: Discussion Topic - Unit Lines
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Balthasar
Wise Man
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Well Gentlemen, the chart of all units has been completed to the current time.
This is the complete list, and is, of course awaiting debate, testing, new units, and serendipity. I've moved the unit charts posts to this post so that I can edit it to keep it current, and everyone can refer to it as we go along.
British Isles Units:
Barsoom Units:
For Barsoom Beasts, look two posts down
Moon Civs and Barb Units:
Underground Civs:
Next up: alot of editor work.
This is the complete list, and is, of course awaiting debate, testing, new units, and serendipity. I've moved the unit charts posts to this post so that I can edit it to keep it current, and everyone can refer to it as we go along.
British Isles Units:
Barsoom Units:
For Barsoom Beasts, look two posts down
Moon Civs and Barb Units:
Underground Civs:
Next up: alot of editor work.
Heretic_Cata
We're gonna live forever
Nice unit lines.
This is one of the 2 mods that will make me play civ3 again. (the other being the Heroes3 mod)
Keep up the good work. I'll be lurkin.
This is one of the 2 mods that will make me play civ3 again. (the other being the Heroes3 mod)
Keep up the good work. I'll be lurkin.
Balthasar
Wise Man
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2005
- Messages
- 3,293
If you come to this post without seeing my other posts in the map thread and Civilizations thread, you'll want to go there to get the complete report on my latest activities.
We're making progress since I last posted all of our units in October. (Look two posts back for that). As of right now, the Barsoom units have been updated, and the rest will be updated tonight.
If you've read the post I just made in the Civilizations thread, you know that I've settled on the basic framework for Barsoomian Civs, taking into account the knowledge I've gained from re-reading the books (which I thought I'd remembered pretty well, but apparently didn't).
Back when I first unveiled the white martian (Orovar) unit line, I noticed a distinct silence from you guys. Note: just one post since then. You probably groaned: egyptians? Now we've gone over the edge.. But wait! Check out this description of an Orovar by Burroughs:
His skin was bronzed by exposure to the sun...but now I saw nothing red Martian about him. His harness, his weapons, everything...differed... (he) wore a headdress which is quite unusual upon Barsoom...
So that's it, then. The white martians look like egyptians, unless someone wants to make a little army of units in bright blonde wigs... The leaders, however, retain their "whiteness" which is just a few shades lighter than caucasian humans...
Another thing I realized, while re-reading Warlord of Mars, was that a) the Therns are not only able to create imaginary units, but also control any weaker minds, for instance, the great Banths and the Plant Men, and b) Therns and Firstborn work together. This led me to rework the unit lines for both, and gave me stronger units for both overall.
This led me to concentrate for a minute on the Barsoomian Beasts. We'd already agreed to put in comparable earth-units as placeholders, so I was looking for comparables to as many Barsoomian beasts as I could find. Here's what I've found so far:
You'll notice right away that we have Tom2050 to thank for many of the best new units. I spotted the multi-footed Basilisks in a post of his and he sent them to me. Perhaps we can get someone to put units on their backs (Am Indians/red martians, africans/firstborn, and egyptians/Orovars on the smaller thoat and the Green Martians on the Large Thoat). We would need three: one each with sword/spear, rifle and Radium Gun.
We could also use an indian, african and egyptian unit each with a Radium (ray) gun.
Another unit I got from Tom2050 was the Sahuagin. Take a look at how close it looks to this drawing of a Plant man:
I think that unit slot can be considered filled. Again, Tom made that by request, for us.
I also consider the Sith position to be filled by Vuldacon's Giant Hornet. So much so that I pulled the hornet out of Pellucidar so that it would be the more novel to the player when he confronts it on Barsoom. The Malagor looks pretty much as it is described in the books as well.
Now, about the Kaldanes...
I'm pretty sure that we can use a female drider unit as a Kaldane without going seriously out of bounds. The thing about Kaldanes is that, even though they use the Rykors as steeds, controlling their movements in combat, and simply jumping off if the Rykor is killed, a Kaldane is fairly vicious when cornered. Here's what we need then:
We need an animator to take the red martian units we've picked out and lop their heads off. The animator has the option of either leaving them simply headless, or of replacing the heads with a head-sized drider. (representing the way the Kaldane will "Ride" the Rykors around). Some Rykors, though, don't need 'riders' and yet are fully functional. They're controlled, one assumes, by the Kaldanes from a distance, the way the Therns control the Banths and Plant men. There is one episode in the books where a headless Rykor is chasing John Carter down a hallway, so there's that. One more request: that when a Rykor with a Kaldane head dies, I'd like to see the little spider run away. It's the little touches that make a good unit.
Speaking of one-of-a-kind units, the Kangaroo men of Gooli are discussed, but not really described in the books, except as worthless and Kangaroo looking. Since they're not known as warriors, I decided to make them alternative units for the Toolian League. I use the faun and Satyr worker to represent them:
____________________________________________________________
So here's my remaining, final-answer unit request list for Barsoom:
Green Martians (aka Tharks) - well, we need them all to be made.
Red Martians - John Carter, Dejah Thoris, Radium gun infantry, Thoat Rider*
White martians - Radium gun infantry, Thoat Rider*
Firstborn - Radium gun infantry, Thoat Rider*
Beasts - White Ape, Banth, Thoats large and small*, Ulsio, Zitadar, Darseen, Calot Tree, Calot, Apt. Descriptions of these can be found >here<.
Others - Rykors (see description above), Kangaroo Men
*the basilisks are a fill-in. A real thoat is a powerful beast that has the basic strength and capability of a horse. I'd still encourage the making of the Thoat Riders, though, using the Basilisks until we can have proper thoats made.
Next Barsoom project: A tech tree.
We're making progress since I last posted all of our units in October. (Look two posts back for that). As of right now, the Barsoom units have been updated, and the rest will be updated tonight.
If you've read the post I just made in the Civilizations thread, you know that I've settled on the basic framework for Barsoomian Civs, taking into account the knowledge I've gained from re-reading the books (which I thought I'd remembered pretty well, but apparently didn't).
Back when I first unveiled the white martian (Orovar) unit line, I noticed a distinct silence from you guys. Note: just one post since then. You probably groaned: egyptians? Now we've gone over the edge.. But wait! Check out this description of an Orovar by Burroughs:
His skin was bronzed by exposure to the sun...but now I saw nothing red Martian about him. His harness, his weapons, everything...differed... (he) wore a headdress which is quite unusual upon Barsoom...
So that's it, then. The white martians look like egyptians, unless someone wants to make a little army of units in bright blonde wigs... The leaders, however, retain their "whiteness" which is just a few shades lighter than caucasian humans...
Another thing I realized, while re-reading Warlord of Mars, was that a) the Therns are not only able to create imaginary units, but also control any weaker minds, for instance, the great Banths and the Plant Men, and b) Therns and Firstborn work together. This led me to rework the unit lines for both, and gave me stronger units for both overall.
This led me to concentrate for a minute on the Barsoomian Beasts. We'd already agreed to put in comparable earth-units as placeholders, so I was looking for comparables to as many Barsoomian beasts as I could find. Here's what I've found so far:
You'll notice right away that we have Tom2050 to thank for many of the best new units. I spotted the multi-footed Basilisks in a post of his and he sent them to me. Perhaps we can get someone to put units on their backs (Am Indians/red martians, africans/firstborn, and egyptians/Orovars on the smaller thoat and the Green Martians on the Large Thoat). We would need three: one each with sword/spear, rifle and Radium Gun.
We could also use an indian, african and egyptian unit each with a Radium (ray) gun.
Another unit I got from Tom2050 was the Sahuagin. Take a look at how close it looks to this drawing of a Plant man:
I think that unit slot can be considered filled. Again, Tom made that by request, for us.
I also consider the Sith position to be filled by Vuldacon's Giant Hornet. So much so that I pulled the hornet out of Pellucidar so that it would be the more novel to the player when he confronts it on Barsoom. The Malagor looks pretty much as it is described in the books as well.
Now, about the Kaldanes...
I'm pretty sure that we can use a female drider unit as a Kaldane without going seriously out of bounds. The thing about Kaldanes is that, even though they use the Rykors as steeds, controlling their movements in combat, and simply jumping off if the Rykor is killed, a Kaldane is fairly vicious when cornered. Here's what we need then:
We need an animator to take the red martian units we've picked out and lop their heads off. The animator has the option of either leaving them simply headless, or of replacing the heads with a head-sized drider. (representing the way the Kaldane will "Ride" the Rykors around). Some Rykors, though, don't need 'riders' and yet are fully functional. They're controlled, one assumes, by the Kaldanes from a distance, the way the Therns control the Banths and Plant men. There is one episode in the books where a headless Rykor is chasing John Carter down a hallway, so there's that. One more request: that when a Rykor with a Kaldane head dies, I'd like to see the little spider run away. It's the little touches that make a good unit.
Speaking of one-of-a-kind units, the Kangaroo men of Gooli are discussed, but not really described in the books, except as worthless and Kangaroo looking. Since they're not known as warriors, I decided to make them alternative units for the Toolian League. I use the faun and Satyr worker to represent them:
____________________________________________________________
So here's my remaining, final-answer unit request list for Barsoom:
Green Martians (aka Tharks) - well, we need them all to be made.
Red Martians - John Carter, Dejah Thoris, Radium gun infantry, Thoat Rider*
White martians - Radium gun infantry, Thoat Rider*
Firstborn - Radium gun infantry, Thoat Rider*
Beasts - White Ape, Banth, Thoats large and small*, Ulsio, Zitadar, Darseen, Calot Tree, Calot, Apt. Descriptions of these can be found >here<.
Others - Rykors (see description above), Kangaroo Men
*the basilisks are a fill-in. A real thoat is a powerful beast that has the basic strength and capability of a horse. I'd still encourage the making of the Thoat Riders, though, using the Basilisks until we can have proper thoats made.
Next Barsoom project: A tech tree.
KingArthur
Searching for the Holy Grail
You've been busy. I like this - the Barsoomian Bestiary is really taking shape. I really hope someone takes on the tharks but it's probably more realistic to push for the radium infantry lines.
Balthasar
Wise Man
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2005
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- 3,293
In case anyone has missed it, Plotinus has made us a Steampunk Commando! 
I will redouble my efforts to get a working biq to you guys with this included.
I will redouble my efforts to get a working biq to you guys with this included.
tom2050
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2005
- Messages
- 5,516
Have any need for a Mechanical Dragon? I looked online, and found a few Steampunk Mechanical Dragon pics here and there; it doesn't seem to be a common thing... but figured I would offer... I will do this eventually anyways, but if you might be able to use it, I can get it done sooner. A Conversion of course.
Edit: It has been converted and posted.
Edit: I don't think I ever sent you the 3ds Max file of the Thoat (Basilisk)... I can still send it to you if I did not do so before (To add a rider if you wish). Basilisk Animations are already included, so the Rider can simply be placed on top in 3ds Max, and the unit can be rendered.
Tom
Edit: It has been converted and posted.
Edit: I don't think I ever sent you the 3ds Max file of the Thoat (Basilisk)... I can still send it to you if I did not do so before (To add a rider if you wish). Basilisk Animations are already included, so the Rider can simply be placed on top in 3ds Max, and the unit can be rendered.
Tom
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
tom2050 has also post a Death Cloud that might be useful for a poison gas unit.
ruby_sauce
Outside the box
ok, Im just playing around with stuff and I tried to make something out of it, tell me what you think, and if you want something changed, point me in a direction where I can find clothing pieces/props, or how exactly a specific prop should look. (I can't make clothing... or detailed complex props for that matter)
also, I didn't include weapons or big civspecific parts yet, the weapons will be dual pistol/revolver for the spy (from the images) and a sniper (probably one of the gun props with a scope that I'll try to make) for the scout.
I've waited too long with this (a unit for the steampunk mod), so apologies for that already >.>
(scout, loosely based off of balthasars image)
(spy, also, I put the large collar from plotinus on it, its still the same color so far but I can change that and try and not make the clothes poke through.)
also, I didn't include weapons or big civspecific parts yet, the weapons will be dual pistol/revolver for the spy (from the images) and a sniper (probably one of the gun props with a scope that I'll try to make) for the scout.
I've waited too long with this (a unit for the steampunk mod), so apologies for that already >.>
(scout, loosely based off of balthasars image)
(spy, also, I put the large collar from plotinus on it, its still the same color so far but I can change that and try and not make the clothes poke through.)
Balthasar
Wise Man
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2005
- Messages
- 3,293
Hi Ruby! Glad you decided to join the fun; I hope you've noticed that we've been using your Bomb Thrower from day one.
You really did your research. I had to go all the way back to Page 5 to find the scout to which (I think) you refer. It was done by a "hard model" maker named Sillof whose steampunk work I'm very fond of. Glad I grabbed that image, though - it seems to have disappeared from his web site....
To the work at hand:
I love the Spy, and have nothing to say except that you're on the right track, exactly.
As for the scout, I do have some suggestions. Firstly, the reason I liked Sillof's scout so much was that it was female, and good female units are hard to come by. Secondly, I like the aviator look. But the Sillof model was just a suggestion, not a demand, and what works on a plastic model does not necessarily work in a Civ unit, so let's turn to the unit sample you've made....
Looking at what you've posted, my advice would be to lose the vest and the helmet. Since this unit is male, maybe leave him bald and put the goggles up on his forehead. Add a large hip bag with an across-the chest strap for supplies. If you want to add a jacket, look for a bomber's leather jacket. Otherwise, his shirt is tucked in.
He could even ride a bicycle, though he really appears too early in the game to use roads. (I love your bicycle unit, and have a fondness for bicycle units in general so at some point we can discuss them, perhaps)
For other props, try rummaging through my 19th century props file. I'm told that most of the stuff in the rar is worthless, but one man's junk...... I would also suggest a conversation with Plotinus. He's doing some units for us and has a great handle on the whole genre.
One more thing: if you unbutton that spy's coat, remove the mask, and give him a multiple-shot crossbow, you have Van Helsing, a character very close to my heart for reasons I'd rather not disclose.
I don't want to overdo the suggestions (seems I always do), so let me just thank you again for making these.
You really did your research. I had to go all the way back to Page 5 to find the scout to which (I think) you refer. It was done by a "hard model" maker named Sillof whose steampunk work I'm very fond of. Glad I grabbed that image, though - it seems to have disappeared from his web site....
To the work at hand:
I love the Spy, and have nothing to say except that you're on the right track, exactly.
As for the scout, I do have some suggestions. Firstly, the reason I liked Sillof's scout so much was that it was female, and good female units are hard to come by. Secondly, I like the aviator look. But the Sillof model was just a suggestion, not a demand, and what works on a plastic model does not necessarily work in a Civ unit, so let's turn to the unit sample you've made....
Looking at what you've posted, my advice would be to lose the vest and the helmet. Since this unit is male, maybe leave him bald and put the goggles up on his forehead. Add a large hip bag with an across-the chest strap for supplies. If you want to add a jacket, look for a bomber's leather jacket. Otherwise, his shirt is tucked in.
He could even ride a bicycle, though he really appears too early in the game to use roads. (I love your bicycle unit, and have a fondness for bicycle units in general so at some point we can discuss them, perhaps)
For other props, try rummaging through my 19th century props file. I'm told that most of the stuff in the rar is worthless, but one man's junk...... I would also suggest a conversation with Plotinus. He's doing some units for us and has a great handle on the whole genre.
One more thing: if you unbutton that spy's coat, remove the mask, and give him a multiple-shot crossbow, you have Van Helsing, a character very close to my heart for reasons I'd rather not disclose.
I don't want to overdo the suggestions (seems I always do), so let me just thank you again for making these.
I think they look great. The spy is really nicely put together.
Unfortunately that would require a brand new conforming figure. A big gap in the materials available to us is an open jacket or coat - I've often wished for this.
Unfortunately that would require a brand new conforming figure. A big gap in the materials available to us is an open jacket or coat - I've often wished for this.
ruby_sauce
Outside the box
yea, especially the coat. Its hard enough to find coats in the first place, and I've tried making 2 of them into figures using your tutorial, but it didn't quite work :/. I did manage to make another, not as big, piece of clothing, so its not the tutorial
anyway, I'll check out the props, and a hipbag IS doable for me so imma get right on it, or at least when I have some time
EDIT: ooh there are some VERY nice revolvers in that pack, im definitly using them for the spy. Im gonna try and use the other stuff too, I like it
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
You might take a look at this for a rifle.
I might be able to make such a coat as an obj using blender, but then could someone else turn it into a dynamic prop?
Me too! Me too!Spoiler :
ruby_sauce
Outside the box
oh my, that rifle looks especially nice! I'm definitly using it :O
but 1 thing, there is no scope on it. Should I try and fashion a scope myself or should I leave it without scope?
I dunno nothin' 'bout grafix, but would a recoloring of the chu-ku-no prop (I presume there's a prop ...?) do for Van Helsing's crossbow?
@Balthasar - now we finally know who the last Van Helsing is!
,
Oz
@Balthasar - now we finally know who the last Van Helsing is!
,Oz
Balthasar
Wise Man
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2005
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Rifle scopes hadn't been invented yet, but every historical fantasy movie includes one...
@Balthasar - now we finally know who the last Van Helsing is!
You can't prove nothin' and I ain't talkin'....
In theory anyone with Poser could do that. If you could make a coat that fitted the PDM (in his default pose) and which could then be rigged within Poser (by e.g. me), that would be amazingly useful.
That's the sort of thing where a primitive - in this case a cylinder - would be more than sufficient. The scope on a rifle would be so tiny at civ scale it would barely be visible anyway, so there would be no need to do more than plonk a basic cylinder there - no fashioning required.
ruby_sauce
Outside the box
bah, I can't find a good jacket to use.
the hipbag is also not as easy as I thought as there could be multiple variants. what exactly do you want with the hipbag? like, closed? bag as in backpack style? or open "leather bag" style, sort of like grocery shopping?
the hipbag is also not as easy as I thought as there could be multiple variants. what exactly do you want with the hipbag? like, closed? bag as in backpack style? or open "leather bag" style, sort of like grocery shopping?
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