Dr kossin #2

If you can't trade, steal. Get masonry and chop like mad in copper/wheat/fish city to try to build the Great Wall out of wood and set yourself up for an espionage economy.

LuCiver said:

If you can't trade, steal. Get masonry and chop like mad in copper/wheat/fish city to try to build the Great Wall out of wood and set yourself up for an espionage economy.

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I don't like this idea here. EP requires heavy point reductions...we're not likely to see religion and war shakes off the OB agreement (spies caught roughs up diplo further). Exacerbating the problem is that these guys are crappy techers, too.

1 great spy, even w/o religion would be like 4k beakers after infiltrate [provided there is anything to steal], more w/ open borders. If you get some religion and spread... then it's real nice.

bestsss said:

1 great spy, even w/o religion would be like 4k beakers after infiltrate [provided there is anything to steal], more w/ open borders. If you get some religion and spread... then it's real nice.

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If he can afford the hammers on spies, actually get a religion, spread it where he wants it, and avoid a DoW. It's possible, but there's a lot that can go wrong with that tactic in this situation.

Unfortunately, the Great Wall went in 2240BC so that's not an option.
Since trading with Toku is out of the picture, I'll move my EP towards Mao and hope I get to see what he's researching sometime in the future (30 turns or so would be my guess, I should have done this a long time ago).

CoL is also pretty far at this point so I'm still not sure where to go next? I'm not even sure a straight beeline will land me the religion.

My best bet is likely Alphabet>Currency as usual, provided I get Alphabet first that is, which I think is likely as it's fairly early and the economy is in decent shape still.

Toku won't get Alphabet forever so I can always gift it to him for some diplo, but even that won't be enough for decent diplo.

Toku is one of the most likely AIs to get early alphabet in the game, which goes extra ironically well with his "no trading" idiocy.

I see... I'll sleep on it and play the round tomorrow then, plus I might get another idea in the meantime.

Round 3
A longer round, with some very bizarre techpaths

It still looked to me as though Alphabet was the good choice to tech now, and so I sticked with it.
As the round started, you can see I had more great luck with Barbarians.


And then shortly after, Toku had ideas in mind about his next city, which unfortunately prevented us from getting it.


Alphabet came in and... neither had it or was close.


I traded it with Mao for IW and gifted it to Toku, for Diplo.


After finding Marble way down south and settling it, I built the Temple of Artemis for fail gold. 72 gold is better than nothing, eh?


It also altered my tech path, seeing that my land isn't that great, I went Alphabet>Masonry>Polytheism>Aesthetics>Literature. With some pre-chops, it was up in no time.


Obligatory Wonder screenshot...


Not too far from there, a few turns later...


I also put up the NE in the Capital so GPP are secured for the rest of the early game I feel. After building both Wonders, it was time to trade a bit.

Unlocking the Hammam, our great 2-UB.

And getting more Diplo..


I then researched Drama with a Philosophy bulb in head for a religion on our continent but...


There was no way I was founding Taoism until Confucianism spread to me now, so I settled the GS. Most likely not optimal but it'll be a while until the Paper/Edu bulbs are possible and I didn't know how long Mao would take to spread the religion to me (he sent the free Missionary to Toku I think).
Having switched Espionage to Mao, I saw he was teching Currency, so I put in a few turns and traded for it.


Turns out it was only 9 turns later that he sent a Missionary. Oh well, the next GS are due pretty soon anyway.


I converted immediately.


You can see the end-result in the bottom right corner. 2 Pleased hard-to-please-AIs.


This gave me the opportunity to...


And...


Hope you don't dislike beggars Toku, 'cos you'll be seeing a lot of me!
I stopped the round here, although it is pretty clear what is to be done next. I need CS badly and some more workers now that Diplo & something to drive the economy (STD Economy ) is in place.
Tech screen


Overview of our land... First the north where Mao settled a city ON the rice.


And the south, where an annoying Barb Archer & Mountain is preventing us from improving Sheep. I'll build a Galley and send 2 swords in it to dislodge him soon.
There's one more decent city possible down there, giving me 7.


From here, I could play in somewhat peacefully, but I'm still not feeling too safe with those 2 freaks next door. A Cuirassier/Cavalry war would make me sleep much easier at night if I can manage to squeeze it somewhere.

For my taste that is case where i do not want to go to lib peacefully. All that chinese dye and gold could have improved your situation. guess to late now...

I suggest setting good draft city with globe...

Hello! It looks like you are 1 city short given the timeline, even when using a conservative expansion strategy.

I probably would have settled the Fish+Horse city already, but at 1NE of your dotmap location. That would make it riverside while still collecting many water tiles.


Edit:
Never mind...I thought you had only 4 cities not 5. In that case, 5 is about right for the current turn. But it looks like the 2 cities you have to the south could have been chosen elsewhere to better improve your economy.

Fish/Horse city at the bottom will be a good Moai city.

But as the Ottomans, I do always like a drafted Jan/catapult/Treb/Cannon warfare. If you can get Janissaries quick enough, they can really dominate, although it will be tough going against 2 protective leaders.

Thanks for the suggestions, these are good ones. The fish/horse city is going there ASAP.

I'm guessing a (Drafted)Janissary+Trebuchets(later cannons) approach could be viable, Mao's lands are indeed quite juicy. I think Erdine or Ankara will get the GT. Erdine is convenient because it's so close to the front. Moreover Ankara could get the HE when I can unlock it (nowhere near).

kossin said:

I think Erdine or Ankara will get the GT.

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i have not calculated but probably best food wise is Bursa [as you claim sheep] [+11 or something like that [with farmed FP] at size five not leaving much good tiles] prior that means bunch of scientists.


If you do not want to sac good city Samsum is bearable place. Ankara and Erdine is IMHO better kept as hammer hybrids due to having some actual hammers.

Artichoker said:

Hello! It looks like you are 1 city short given the timeline, even when using a conservative expansion strategy.

I probably would have settled the Fish+Horse city already, but at 1NE of your dotmap location. That would make it riverside while still collecting many water tiles.


Edit:
Never mind...I thought you had only 4 cities not 5. In that case, 5 is about right for the current turn. But it looks like the 2 cities you have to the south could have been chosen elsewhere to better improve your economy.

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Looking yet again, you have 6 cities at the moment, not 5...which is good, but only as long as your cities are bringing in enough income. It looks like your western cities should have been chosen differently. I think the Fish/Horse city should have come before either one of them. Especially since your capital's culture is not threatened at all by China (there are no critical resources to defend there), the Iron/Oasis city looks more low-priority (is there a seafood resource there that I can't see?), at least compared to the Fish/Horse city.

Bursa makes a lot of sense. Guess I'll farm over the fp as I had in mind first :S

There's a fish West of Samsun that requires a border pop. That and it being so close to the Capital for reduced maintenance is the reason why I built it over the Horse/Fish city.

kossin said:

Bursa makes a lot of sense. Guess I'll farm over the fp as I had in mind first :S

There's a fish West of Samsun that requires a border pop. That and it being so close to the Capital for reduced maintenance is the reason why I built it over the Horse/Fish city.

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OK...then Samsun is a decent city, at least. Konya, however doesn't look that good. At 1SE, it probably would make a good city, in picking up some extra riverside tiles. This choice would then justify your current location for the Fish/Horse city, which could act as the Moai city.


The way it is now, both Samsun and Konya are fairly decent, but settling both of them at this point of the game is probably excessive. The Fish/Horse city would have had increased maintenance from distance to capital, but this would have been compensated by the extra commerce from riverside tiles, especially if you had used some of them to build cottages.

No specific advice that hasn't already been said, just want to chime in and say I'm enjoying the series and your fast writeups. Keep up the good work sir.

Just getting on board here... my initial thoughts... less wonders, more settlers.

kossin said:

Thanks for the suggestions, these are good ones. The fish/horse city is going there ASAP.

I'm guessing a (Drafted)Janissary+Trebuchets(later cannons) approach could be viable, Mao's lands are indeed quite juicy. I think Erdine or Ankara will get the GT. Erdine is convenient because it's so close to the front. Moreover Ankara could get the HE when I can unlock it (nowhere near).

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Both neighbors are Protective and you have the Great Library. Therefore, I recommend you use Cannons+Janissaries (no need for drafting)...with the emphasis of getting Steel before Nationalism.

Soirana said:

For my taste that is case where i do not want to go to lib peacefully. All that chinese dye and gold could have improved your situation. guess to late now...

I suggest setting good draft city with globe...

Click to expand...

Doing that leaves you a dogpiling away from being screwed.

I expanded more aggressively and got DoW'd by more units than I was prepared for (lost 5+ archers in a wall city).