Dr kossin #3

@VoU
The surplus can run 6 specialists at size 10. You're right that it isn't the best food surplus in history (I had MM in a game with 4 fishes and 3 clams in his capital for example) but having so much food so close to Washington looks good for future cities.
Regarding techpath, I was pretty tired so yea, it doesn't look so pristine anymore. The idea behind hunting was that I'll eventually need the Elephants, AH will get a discount and if I don't have horses or copper I'll want Archery with all that jungle up north.
Of course I forgot to add Mysticism in there somewhere so we'll have to see what's around us first. With Bronze, I'd go Mining>BW>TW>Mysticism and then Hunting>AH unless something else seems like a good choice.

Worker first improves corn, then farm NE bananas, mine grassland hill, farm NW bananas if needed - although that's 20 turns to complete which would bring me to turn 32, close to the time the settler will come out so roads may be needed (unless there's a spot up there along the river). I can always add whipped in a second worker as the city will grow back pretty fast.

@bobbyboy29
Glad you're enjoying them There's more to come too.

@JFleme
I'd be glad to see how your game went after I finish up mine to compare strategies. Will an Elepult war be possible/useful? - we'll see

Round 1

As usual, a short round although I did settle a city this time.

Research went Mining>Bronze Working>The Wheel>Mysticism>? (Pottery I think)

Worker first, then a warrior. Make a barracks for 1 turn after to grow to size 4 then start on a settler that got whipped into a worker.

On turn 7 I meet this Creative neighbor who would found Buddhism.


Once Bronze Working came in, I saw bronze close by and went for it. That city started building a workboat for exploration while my workers hooked up the copper. They are now chopping some of the few forests I have (Axe in New York and whatever in Washington)

I explored almost all my peninsula (again stuck on my little land piece). The good news is that if I can block most of it, it is very good land. Bad news is that's going to be hard, albeit impossible. I built another worker as if that's the plan it will not be easy to achieve.


I will let Washington pop borders in 11 turn at which point New York will be able to improve and work the corn. As I don't have AH right now, a Monument doesn't seem like the most pressing thing to build although it soon will be needed.

I may want to altogether skip AH and do Pottery>Writing>IW also. I'm not feeling like waiting on a trade to pick up IW this time.

Dark Green Dot onto the diagonal joining the cowlaphants.

Green Dot to the plains (?) hill? Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Green Dot belongs west of the incense, eating the white pigs, while the light green pigs feed Transparent Dot.

Ah yes, good catch, it will get more green tiles that way (although no hills but it'll be a whip-fest in any case).

Terrain is limited. I'd dotmap differently. The cities behind Washington I'd locate a) the one for elephants and cow 1NW and the one for rice 1E. Sure, they're not spectacular but both will be productive and worthwhile. With these moves, the closest yellow dot can go between the cow and dye, giving it fresh water. This will also let you settle more cities in the jungle region later on, divide the gems and most importantly not let any of that good green go to waste.

Good luck getting the red block cities.

JFleme said:

Terrain is limited. I'd dotmap differently. The cities behind Washington I'd locate a) the one for elephants and cow 1NW and the one for rice 1E. Sure, they're not spectacular but both will be productive and worthwhile. With these moves, the closest yellow dot can go between the cow and dye, giving it fresh water. This will also let you settle more cities in the jungle region later on, divide the gems and most importantly not let any of that good green go to waste.

Click to expand...

I'm guessing from the prose that you mean 1W for the rice (1E would lose the rice).

I can see some value in moving Yellow westward - I think south of the Cow (on the river, but off the coast) has some merit - more green tiles than the coastal placement, and we don't have any of the harbor resource multipliers anyway.

Moving the rice? OK, it clears a jungle tile for free. And maybe it has less overlap - but you don't get more tiles to work, so I'm underwhelmed.

Now that I look at it again, moving both yellow cities 1W each will gain me 1 riverside grassland (NW of cows but I lose the one under the city, gain 2 and can build a levee). I lose a few tiles east of the green dot pigs but it's not much to fuss over I think.
Doing this also allows me to move the western green dot 1W leaving the Dyes to yellow dot, a city by the looks of it.

Agree about the Elephants city, although 1N could borrow the bananas to grow faster. This way it could also work a few more cottages for Washington as well.

Moai will go in Moai sign unless I settle the Ivory city 1W as JFleme suggested.

I've remade the dotmap and picked different colors this time.

Looks like time for an ironworking beeline.

I'd move yellow 1NW, orange 1N and green 1NW. Then I'd settle an additional city by the pigs, 1E of them.

Why this? Because I find more cities on green to be better than less cities on green. They can work each others cottages and grassland is versatile for any specific purpose. Furthermore, you don't waste as much good terrain as you would with the suggested dotmap.

I kinda liked Orange as it allowed 1 city to get both gems but I'll consider splitting it in two cities to get more green tiles. There's still some fog north that could be hiding a resource so I'll try to send a unit there.

Round 2
Early research went Pottery>Writing>IW

I made 2 axes and deleted 2 warriors. All the barbs I saw were 2 animals and 2 warriors.

I completed my workboat and sent him east, where he would meet this guy:


Good, he founded Hinduism so Pericles will hate him. Then as my settler was not even completed, Pericles threw the whole dotmap in the water.


I scrapped all the plans so far and went for the gems by splitting them it in two cities, one with rice, the other with pig.


The 'blocker city' will have to be settled at a later time as Pericles' culture would crush it really fast this early, being so close to his Capital and as you will see, he Wonderwhored quite a bit. It's also the only source of horses on my peninsula. Boston will pop borders within 14 turns (if a building doubles) but I wouldn't bet on being able to keep it for long.


Once Writing was in, I sent a few workers to complete the road towards Pericles as there was not much to do anymore. I also 3-whipped a library as Washington just grew so fast. I would normally not do this but I wanted to run 2 scientists ASAP.


My workboat kept on going and found DMOC's lost ALC (just kidding).


Then it was a bunch of micro/whipping and some chopping until IW came in. I improved both gems with 2 workers so they were online 4 turns after IW. That was a really big boost to the economy. I happen to have a source of Iron inside Philadelphia's BFC which is a nice bonus. I then researched Sailing as I wasn't getting all the foreign trade routes I needed. Next were Hunting>AH, giving me all my worker required techs for now. I then stopped and chose HBR as a placeholder. I moved my workboat right after this and found Peter. I took most of my screenshots prior to that so my apologies for the lack of recent screenshots.


State of the world:
Pericles has got to go!


He's already got his shrine! I'm pretty sure it's giving him at least 10 per turn since he spread it to all my cities and he has 5 himself.
Now, since he's the only Buddhist around, he's pretty hated:


He is Peter's Worst Enemy as well. A look inside Washington.


The settler is for any of the 3 backfilling cities I have. I'll need production to take care of Pericles so the commerce city can wait. The ivory city is probably my best bet.


Demographics look fine for this time of the game...


Built units, improvements and buildings:


Nobody has Alphabet so no tech trade screen to show. However here's my tech tree with the logical techs selected to show research time (at 100%, actual research time will be longer)


And the overview of the world without resources as it was a mess... it looks like some kind of Pangea.


A catapult war of some sort looks like the best direction to take. Since Pericles has Ivory, I'll need spears and Elephants unless he delays one of the key techs for too long.

What should I research next? I need Masonry, Mathematics, Construction and possibly HBR for this to work out. I could ignore HBR and go for swords/catapults with some spears. He would likely not have any elephants. Most AIs likely already have IW and Mathematics so they're bad trade bait.

I'll await your suggestions and the next round shall follow tomorrow.

I'd probably skip HBR early, and beeline catapults. Start building swords, axes, and spears now. Then when contruction comes in, build catapults and attack. Then go HBR (or trade for it) and bring Ellies in to finish off Pericles.

I'd also settle both back-filled cities for the war, since they'll both give decent production (5 hills between them). That'll give you 6 cities building units, which should be enough to overpower him.

kossin said:

Now that I look at it again, moving both yellow cities 1W each will gain me 1 riverside grassland (NW of cows but I lose the one under the city, gain 2 and can build a levee). I lose a few tiles east of the green dot pigs but it's not much to fuss over I think.
Doing this also allows me to move the western green dot 1W leaving the Dyes to yellow dot, a city by the looks of it.

Click to expand...

Good thinking here...this time, you have emphasized commerce.

The challenge in this game is being able to chop down the jungle and also being able to trade for tech. Iron Working weakens your trade potential, but you need it to chop jungle.

Round 3

I continued to explore with the workboat finding more friendly neighbors...



Instead of just beelining Construction, I took a quick detour via Alphabet which made it so that I got to Construction in about the same amount of time. After Construction, I went for Currency to help pay the bills.


Of course, Monty being Monty, peace was not to be...


I also settled my three cities that were left. Settlers were built in Washington. It hurt the economy a bit but in the long run they will be good additions. The downside of these neighbors is there were a lot of demands...








I sent most of them packing as they are pretty far from me. I rarely beeline Construction this early and I think this is one of the first times I get to use it in a trade:


In 75 AD, I judged that my army was sufficient and went to work on Pericles.


The first city was lightly defended so it fell quickly



After Currency was in, I traded old techs for and started researching Code of Laws to reduce maintenance in the far away cities. Monty was actually a bit helpful, providing a trade for Monarchy. I revolted into HR+OR to avoid paying units


After healing, I marched onto Athens which was sieged and then razed... nah I kept it



A 23 shrine and some Wonders. I stopped here as Peri put together a stack of some sort...


I'd take a ceasefire, reinforce the city, and go back in. Here's what's left of the army next to Athens (I've lost a few catapults but that's it).


State of the world... a lot of wars.


Tech screen


As Churchill and Toku are Buddhists, converting to Buddhism seems like a good idea:


Monty will hate me anyway and Hammurabi is really weak. Moreover, Peter and Monty are on their own continent. An argument can be made against it since it allows me to keep Monty Cautious and get Intercontinental Trade Routes (once I've taken care of Peri)

Too many religions in this game, so people are going to be pissed off regardless. May as well at least use the religions to help you.

Although the weird things are wars are not between religions so far.
You vs. Pericles = Buddhist vs Buddhist
Churchill vs Toku = Buddhist vs Buddhist
Monty vs Peter = Jewish vs Jewish

Only one not in a war is the lone hindu, Hammy.

Pericles teched well early, so when you get him down to 1 city left, it might be worth it to take peace and a bunch of his techs, and then either finish him off 10 turns later or even getting someone else to kill him.

I'd also seriously consider joining in some fake wars, siding with Churchill. Pick a couple friends and be nice to them. You'll still be in wars all game, but it'd be nice to have a friend to bribe if you need to.

UWHabs said:

Too many religions in this game, so people are going to be pissed off regardless. May as well at least use the religions to help you.

Although the weird things are wars are not between religions so far.
You vs. Pericles = Buddhist vs Buddhist

Click to expand...

?? The leader board has America as agnostic? Maybe I lost the plot.

I'm sort of sorry that the game doesn't allow you to customize the war declarations. "Hey Percy, you are the wrong color blue!"

Was there a reason not to scout your targets during the war buildup? Seems like knowing what's in the fog might be important for decisions like raze-no-wait-I-didn't-mean-it. For that matter, WTF is up with not being able to see all of the tiles in the level two cross when you have captured the city?

VoiceOfUnreason said:

?? The leader board has America as agnostic? Maybe I lost the plot.

I'm sort of sorry that the game doesn't allow you to customize the war declarations. "Hey Percy, you are the wrong color blue!"

Was there a reason not to scout your targets during the war buildup? Seems like knowing what's in the fog might be important for decisions like raze-no-wait-I-didn't-mean-it. For that matter, WTF is up with not being able to see all of the tiles in the level two cross when you have captured the city?

Click to expand...

Okay, he's agnostic for now, but will likely switch soon (presumably).

VoiceOfUnreason said:

?? The leader board has America as agnostic? Maybe I lost the plot.

I'm sort of sorry that the game doesn't allow you to customize the war declarations. "Hey Percy, you are the wrong color blue!"

Was there a reason not to scout your targets during the war buildup? Seems like knowing what's in the fog might be important for decisions like raze-no-wait-I-didn't-mean-it. For that matter, WTF is up with not being able to see all of the tiles in the level two cross when you have captured the city?

Click to expand...

Peter asked me to close borders with Pericles and I complied since I was going to DoW him anyway... it was a stupid decision looking back as now I don't care about Peter anymore.

As for religions, I just switched to OR+Monarchy and planned on going Buddhist this turn.

Round 4

I've played up to Liberalism, 1 turn from completion.

Not many pictures this round as it was similar to the previous rounds. I took a Cease Fire with Pericles, healed, revolted to Buddhism, sent some troops to Corinth and redeclared war. The city was indeed where I had mapped it and I took it with little losses (1 cat) without bombarding - exceptional luck really.


I left some garrison and went to untangle Athens from Peri's culture, but he came at me with Crossbowmen and ate my garrison I took his other city adjacent to Athens, razed it, and resettled to work the horses+fish. Then I took peace and simply teched.


I went Civil Service (revolt to Bureaucracy)>Paper>Education (aided by a GS bulb)>Philosophy (Monty got the religion)>Liberalism
I also traded Paper+Philosophy as they got discovered for Metal Casting, Machinery and Feudalism. Only noteworthy thing to show:


Peri won the election. I was kinda afraid he'd use it to get his cities back but...


I set 6 cities to build universities once Education was in and when Washington had 1 turn left on its university, I whipped the other 5, so Oxford is due in 13ish turns.


I see a possible early religious victory here. Unfortunately Diplo is very bad so I'll have to vassal a few people. Tokugawa+Pericles(I need to capture Thebes where the AP is) as it is now should be enough.



With this in mind, slingshoting Steel from Liberalism looks possible. Techs so far...



The techpace is reaaaaaaally slow, but that's to be expected with this crew and religious hatred. Here's a look at the rest of my landmass.
Pericles

Churchill

Hammurabi

Tokugawa


Things that need be done:

If I aim at Steel, I will tech Gunpowder and trade it for Engineering. I should have enough time to tech Chemistry before Education becomes available but if it fails, I could take Chemistry from Liberalism and tech it myself.
Build some trebuchets to upgrade to canons.
Build Buddhists buildings everywhere as well as Forges.
Check what Monty and Toku have in mind. I'm not worried about Monty as he has no OB with anyone except me so his target should be Peter again.
Tokugawa has OB with Pericles only, but I can bribe him to cancel them. Not sure how long it could last though? Most likely he is after Hammurabi, his Worst Enemy.

Hi Kossin, i really like following your daily rounds. But what is the effect of negotiating a trade-embargo against peri?