The Rise of Japan

Hey Chamnix,
I really missed you and your insightful discussions in the GOTM contest! Welcome back! (And I hope it's not only for this one PBEM game?!)

The rest of you guys: watch out now! Chamnix has been one of the top GOTM players a while back...

Cheers Lanzelot

Hey,

A couple as in 2 weeks or are we talking a month or so?

Good luck why?
Just because Daimyo Calis has the lead & now puts
a ringer in his place. Or how Daimyo Lanzelot praises
this new Daimyo like a student about his favorite
Sensai?

No Fear from the Fishing Daimyo!!!



Blaze Injun

Hey,

GPS to Chamnix

ROJ, T057c, Jan 1478 AD

Welcome Chamnix.

Next Episode:




Blaze Injun

Thanks Lanzelot and Blaze Injun. I don't think I'll be making time for single player Civ 3 anytime soon, so I doubt I'll play GOTMs anymore.

I'm not sure for how long I'll be replacing Calis - he'll just let me know when he can play again.

Let's see - I've never played accelerated production, I've never played ROJ, and I've never played regicide. Other than that, I'm feeling very comfortable with this game .

Save attached to this post because I don't have Eclipse4449's email.

Blaze Injun said:

Or how Daimyo Lanzelot praises
this new Daimyo like a student about his favorite
Sensai?

Click to expand...

I'm not sure, what "Sensai" means, but if it means "teacher", then yes, definitely! I learned a lot from his writings. And even though I was only a beginner, he was not too aloft to answer my (or other newcomer's) questions in the forum.

Chamnix said:

Let's see - I've never played accelerated production, ...

Click to expand...

It takes a while to get used to... Especially the research costs for the techs are a bit confusing at first.

Chamnix said:

Calis has asked me to sub for him for a couple weeks. Please send his turns to me: chamnix AT hotmail DOT com, and let me know where I should be sending the turns.

Click to expand...

You will send this turn to me eclipse4449 at gmail dot com

On its way...

GPS to Semental.

Something strange happened this turn: at the end of my turn I saw the barbarians moving as usual. 20 Ronins came out of a barb camp (why do we get such a large uprising in Regent level?? ). Anyway after the barbs were finished, I got the following popup:


Chamnix, what happened? Did Daimyo Calis also try his hands on the Ronins and got less lucky than Daimyo Blaze?? I guess your Daimyo was sitting next to a barb camp, ready to take the 25g next turn, when the Feudalism-uprising came and 20 Ronins just killed the Daimyo?!

What do we do now? Replay the turn? I don't think it's right, if the barbs alter the course of this game in such a drastic way?!
(Or as Blaze expressed it very fittingly: "Shingen died in 1573, and Kenshin was said to have wept aloud at the loss of so worthy an adversary". This game will be poorer without such a worthy oponent like Miyoshi...!

Hey,

No replays here.

"The regicide mode introduced in Play the World inspired the implementation of the King units in Sengoku, otherwise known as “Daimyo” units. Preserving the safety of the King units is typically of paramount importance when playing in a Regicide scenario, but we were determined to encourage players to take some risks with these units rather than hiding them within well-fortified cities. ... The once-vulnerable King unit can now potentially become a player’s greatest warrior."

Thats what Barbs are for.




Blaze Injun

These Daimyos are dying like flies... If you guys continue at this rate, then by the time I finish the War Council, there will be no one left to vote for me...!

Ok, seriously:

Blaze Injun said:

Hey,

No replays here.

Blaze Injun

Click to expand...

But this unbalances the game dramatically... There's now a complete vacuum in the south, which means for you two guys up north it will become very difficult to win?! For Eclipse and me it's a big advantage, of course. (Except that now I need to think about a completely new strategy for this game. Up to now my strategy had been based on a "balance of power" between the south and the north...)

But in any case: this at least answers the question for how long Chamnix will be acting as Calis' substitute...
(Though I really regret having to see my old Master going down in just one turn. It's like watching Bobby Fischer falling for the Scholar's Mate.)

Lanzelot

Blaze Injun said:

Hey,

No replays here.

Blaze Injun

Click to expand...

While I agree in principle, something seems wrong if Chamnix loses for Calis on his first turn.

gps

Hey,

Depends on how the Daimyo Died.


Blaze Injun

Ok, let's wait for Chamnix' and Calis' opinion.

In addition I'd like to add the following three points that we need to take into account:

1.

Chamnix said:

Let's see - I've never played accelerated production, I've never played ROJ, and I've never played regicide.

Click to expand...

So on one hand, a little careless move with the Daimyo might be forgivable.

2. On the other hand:

Chamnix said:

Other than that, I'm feeling very comfortable with this game .

Click to expand...

Chamnix is a very experienced player and knows that at the transition between two eras a general barb uprising occurs. I just published (in big red letters...) that I finished Feudalism, so he should have known that the uprising was coming and that he better keep his Daimyo away from those barb camps...

3. And on the "third hand": the barbs behave quite unusual in this scenario. First there's at least five times more barb camps in this scenario than in a "normal" Civ3 game. We all know that. But this game must have been modded beyond that! In the interturn I noticed two things:

1. First of all usually the barbs hatch only in the "fog of war", not in daylight. But in this game apparently they spawn in any case: I had an Ashi sitting on a hill next to a barb camp, healing and waiting to collect the 25 gold in 2 turns. A turn ago there was only one barb Ashi in the camp, and because my Ashi was "observing" the camp, I expected this camp not to spawn in the uprising. However, it did!!
2. I don't know the exact numbers, but normally on Regent level each camp spawns like 3-5 barb units. In this game however, it was close to 20. (I stopped counting after 12.)

Perhaps Chamnix also parked his Daimyo next to a barb camp, expecting to suppress the uprising that way, and then was taken by surprise, when it happened anyway and in such a large scale force?!

Lanzelot

The king was near a barb camp so a massive uprising would certainly explain his death.

As far as what to do about it, I'll leave that up to you guys. I had every intention of playing to win, but to be blunt, I have no time invested in this game so far, so being eliminated is not a big deal to me. I feel bad for Calis since I'm sure he expected me to take better of his games than that, and I'd feel bad if my stupidity unbalanced the game for the rest of you, but from a personal standpoint whatever you decide is OK.

It would have happened to me in the same way, probably.
I can very well understand Blaze Injuns position and have no problem to live with that.
But on the other hand the game is completely out of balance now. Furthermore these Ronin are a real danger. I have (or had) together with Lanzelot the strongest military and 20 Ronins would have been a great threat anyway.

It's up to you guys. I am not angry, if this game is over for me...

This was my last note for a while.

See you, guys...

Hey,

GPS to Eclipse

ROJ, T058c, Jul 1478 AD

Next Episode:



Whats unbalanced. We just switched from a Daimyo to a whole lot of Ronin Bandits
that are hellbent on destorying everyone. One Major nation, 3 Weaker & 2 AIs.

As for Daimyo Lanzelot's completely new strategy, I see a few choices.
Expansion west. War with the weaker Daimyo. Which could turn into a
Takada vs the rest of Japan. Play the friendly game. Build the War Tent
& be voted ruler by using the AI votes. Doing any or none of these it
must be remembered that the Ronins, attack of 4, def of 3, will be hunting
for all our heads. Believe me the western Ronin will move east. Just because
a few Daimyo have died this game is far from over. Or maybe closer to ending.



Blaze Injun

I realize I am out of the game by my own actions, but as a personal note, I would have to agree with Blaze.

This scenario states that the barb population has been upgraded, in a sense, to facilitate the need for a strong army by promotion. There have been numerous posts so far confirming this. As Blaze reposted the blurb about putting your Daimyo at risk, it is common knowlege that one can benefit from the risks of being adventurous, but that "preserving the safety of the King unit" is still paramount.

For the "keeping the game balanced" concern, I would say that will happen naturally. The Southern tribes amittedly have the strongest armies. But they will undoubtedly change their priorities and shift to creating new cities to fill the vacuum. The Northern cities will be creating newer and stronger units, and at a greater rate than the South. I see a war brewing. How many cities will be created during war?

I say let this play out by itself and see what happens.

Hey,

I got a email from Eclipse & he wanted me to post it.

So here it is.

I have been trying to read our posts on the ROJ thread but this slow ass hotel WiFi simply will not load the page(s)



I can bet that discussions are occurring due to Calis/Chamnix early death. I want to say that very early on I posted (page 3 or 4) that the barbs here are tougher in this game, although I don’t remember if that note was commented on I can say that before we launched this scenario I posted in post #2 a link about this scenario written by its creator, on that page he states that the Ronin will challenge even the most aggressive players. I believe they were put in this game to help you get your units promoted rather than just starting early wars among the human players. Having said that the Ronin is equal to your own units going into Feudalism so special attention must be exhibited to deal with them. I hate to say this but being aggressive towards them to reap the benefits could result in death



The AIs in this game even if left unchecked will amount to nothing, they are set to a level each of us are comfortable with or could easily defeat. As for what exactly they are set at I do not know, as it wasn’t an opening option so the scenario was designed to challenge even the seasoned veteran. Blaze_Injun took a stab at the Ronin and nearly died but evaded them and survived



I have the turn and I am playing on, If the Horde gets lonely and seeks me out I only hope my mountains aid me in my survival

Eclipse



Post this for me, as you can see I can do e-mail slow but at least it sends and receives



Blaze Injun

Ok, looks like we have two votes strongly against a replay (three, if we count Cyc), and Eclipse's word as our host counts more than ours. I guess that decides the matter. I would not have objected against letting Calis/Chamnix back in, but I can live with the current decision as well.

Here is what I mean with "unbalanced": before Calis' death we just were in a period where coalitions were beginning to form themselves. A wide variety of options was possible, like

1. Calis and me teaming up in order to get the country under control quickly and then fighting it out between the two of us. I did not agree to this, because it is of course contrary to my attempt to win by election...
2. Eclipse and me teaming up in order to defend against Calis' attack, while the north stays neutral (for the price of getting some techs)
3. Calis teaming up with one of the northern forces to attack me from two fronts, while I try to get Eclipse and the remaining northern force as my ally and try to hold tight on both fronts
4. All of you just ignore me and fight it out among yourselfs.

Now, however, it looks like the game will become pretty "one-dimensional": as Blaze already pointed out, sooner or later it will amount to "the three of you against me", and my only goal in the "diplomatic theater" for the next time will be to try and prevent this coalition...

Blaze Injun said:

Build the War Tent & be voted ruler by using the AI votes.

Click to expand...

This won't work, because 3 out of 6 votes aren't enough. And in addition I don't think the AIs will be still alive, when the first election comes around: Hojo is currently a single town of size 1, and a quick look at F7 tells us: they are currently building the Oracle for the next 100 turns... (The programmers in the Fireaxis artificial intelligence department must have been real experts...) And Imagawa is doing only slightly better... My forces may be strong enough to defend myself, but I'm certainly not in a position to cover the AI's asses as well...

Here's a little update on the barb situation, maybe it helps you: "my" barb camp spat out 16 Ronins. Currently I can see 4 camps on the World map. There must be one more down south where Daimyo Calis breathed his last, and there maybe one or two more camps that have come into existence since I traded the maps. So let's say 6-7 camps, which means 96-112 Ronins plus the ones that already existed before the uprising. So we have way over 100 Ronins running around now... If you want a few good tips on how to deal with barbs, read the COTM48 first spoiler (May 2008) in the GOTM discussion forum. That one had been a very tough Demigod game with massive barb uprisings, and some of the ideas may help here as well.

Ok, it's a completely new game now. Good luck guys!

Anyway: GPS to Semental!