'Cause I'm the Taxman

^ Wouldn't you have to account for extra turns with +1fpt? I still assume granary first wins, but it would be closer. If it's a city with 2 seafood and a few 2fpt tiles (say Camulodunum):

Granary first: 38 @ 6fpt + 25 @ 8fpt = 10t w/ 5f overflow
Lighthouse first: 50 @ 8fpt + 38 @ 8fpt = 11t w/ no overflow

I didn't took the + fpt into account because:

1) the city could very well support growth with different tiles (oh! I've got a corn and a pig in the bfc as well )
2) it skews the result toward what I want to show

Seriously, my exemple was to attempt drawing a general case, but if you want to play good, you have to do the math for every bfc... :suicide:
But granary first adds some flexibility in case you have to whip something else in between.

RRRaskolnikov said:

2) it skews the result toward what I want to show

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This is why I replied. Granary first is better.

I'd say take the religion--everyone's planning war anyway.

SB is to the NE on the coast, no border with Stalin. Pretty good chance we're Stalin's target so I like the duns on the border. Often times that'll get you a few turns when the AI reduces instead of attacking.

Scout to try and find a Russian SOD.

Definately grab the COL trade this turn--we'll be able to broker that one.

Haven't had time for an in-depth look yet and tonight is football night so don't expect anything before tomorrow.

Roster:

1: Rusten
2: RRR
3: ungy
4: TMIT - tarred and feathered
5: stuge - MIA?
6: Silu - just played
7: BBP - up!

Got it.

I'll try and post a plan for discussion tonight. Though I'd probably prefer to just play 1-2t and stop for consultation if I see a significant troop build-up and/or learn a bit more about the tech trading opportunities post-COL.

OT: Wish I could watch some football today, or ever. Right in the middle of the work day every time. I'll have to take a month-long vacation next summer.

Our power is significantly higher than Pericles' so we should demand tribute (his gold) immediately after buying CoL for currency+gold -- I think he will cave in.

babybluepants said:

OT: Wish I could watch some football today, or ever. Right in the middle of the work day every time. I'll have to take a month-long vacation next summer.

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Good idea!

^ About the Lighthouse math club, wonder if it affects things that for the westernmost city there was a single forest that I was able to use to get Lighthouse to a single pop whip much before it reached size4. Probably not in any significant way.

Agree with all the aggressive stance opinions. I'm usually a tad on the timid side when playing and very very selective on when and who to fight/demand. Don't think I'd have started planning on Elepulting Stalin at this stage though I agree it's probably the best plan

And yeah agree on adopting religion. Not sure why I didn't adopt it after Stalin went weehorn, was probably afraid of missing trades due to Joao going Annoyed.

BTW, if we can give Stalin the finger already could we OB to SB?

OT: I'll take a month for world cup too... though seeing France performances, a week might be enough
Allez l'OM!

I guess now the plan is to adopt Buddhism, get CoL, get Monarchy and then start trying to get to HBR/Cons for Elepulting Stalin while settling as much of the Archipelago as possible?

This game is starting to look brighter and brighter btw. Only monsters in the horizon I see are huge Joaos and Surys who might throw a wrench in our victory plans when it's time for that. Though Sury has been teching slow as hell up to now, Joao has been left to do whatever he pleases and has got most of the wonders which might help boost him to dangerous proportions. Damn I hate that guy.

I went ahead and moved the chariot, revealing 6 swords in Moscow. That seems like just the beginning of the build-up to me. Any thoughts on the timeline?

- Switch to Buddhism right away.
- OB with SB?
- Trade Currency+cash to Pericles for COL.
- Extort cash from Pericles (I don't generally every do this - any tips on mechanics? Do I just go right back and ask for all his money, or is there some way to gauge what he would concede?)
- Try to trade COL+cash for Calendar from Sury.
- Scout Stalin more.
- Keep track of HBR + Construction trade opportunities.

- Where do we wanna settle? There aren't any particularly great sites. Silu mentioned southern copper. That could be the little tundra island for the fish, but no production whatsoever. I'm a bit worried about settling on the Argos island, as we're likely to be in war with Pericles soon, and I'm not sure we can get appropriate defenders down there in time... Where is the second settler going?
- Also I think the galley should heal, as it has to pass through some fog... I think we could use a couple of more galleys, so we can island-hop with workers, send missionaries and the like.
- More settlers?

- Markets in Bibracte and Athens.
- Thebes gets Dun + Barracks
- Temples in Sparta?
- Temple in Tolosa, then some units to garrison Thebes.
- Islands: send WB from Camo to Gerg: whip WB in Camo, re-grow and whip Granary; nix monument in Verlamion, as it already has a border pop, grow + whip Granary; switch Gerg to Granary.
- Build missionary to send to Thebes, to speed up dun+barracks with OR. Grow city to pop 4, so we can emergency whip a unit later.
- Build another galley or two.

- Road around Thebes (1NE + 2E), in case we need it for future defence.

This is how extort works, ourValue is basically the demanded gold *1.5
AI_getPeacetimeGrantValue(getID()) is the stuff given to you before ("for free").
You can calculate approx. the max gold you can ask.

Hi all, I'm back online. You can put me back on the roster if you want. I will catch up on the thread soon.
I was forced to leave my home but I have found temporary shelter with internet so I can play again earlier than expected.

My approximation based on the code bestsss gave is that he'd only refuse if we ask over ~1500 gold here so I'd go ahead and try asking it all

As for the plan, I'd like to add at least spreading Confu/Hindu in order to grind shrines with 3-4 Priests instead of just 2. We might soon have 4(? don't remember if Stalin had shrine) shrineless holy cities, 2 of which are the dominant religions. After we have those we can just watch the money come in through doors and windows.

- Why would we want Temples in Sparta?

- After CoL, Monarchy is the top priority. I don't see any reason for Calendar over that.

- For settling, any city with a food resource is fine. The nearby Fish, western Sheep, Argos island Crab, all are fair game in addition to the backup metal.

- Monument in Verlamion was a placeholder as noted btw

We only have Confu in Thebes and the production there is abysmal. I feel we should at least complete the Dun for protection, but I could do a Confu missionary after that. I was planning to do a barracks, but honestly Thebes can't even produce any units so it's a bit pointless.

I'll spread Hindu to Vienne and Athens, sure. Do we wanna run a third prophet? I was assuming so, but I guess we don't need it. I said Sparta on the assumption that we'll take Corinth soonish and get the corn, maybe farm a grass.

Calendar - Sury has it available. I thought it was a relations move + grabbing something while we have COL to trade to him.

Well only 1 is urgent (Buddha) so I don't see that much point having 3 cities dedicated to prophet grinding, especially since it takes some effort spreading the religions (and building temples). Certainly better to have 2 cities running 3 than 3 running 2. A minority shrine is a hefty hammer investment wrt missionaries if it's not a state religion of anyone as well. Sparta won't even have the Corn before the Russian war (IIRC) so certainly units over temples there IMO as it won't be reaching the happy cap before that, making them useless for the time being. For Confu, we have to spread it sometime and Theba isn't going to become much better by waiting

Cash-buffered tech trades won't give relations (okay, they do contribute towards "You have shared your tech advances blabla" ) so I'd still save all cash for Monarchy before going after Sury's techs. He will surely be bumped to Friendly very soon with civic+religion regardless.

No, we should trade with CoL while we still can -- there's no guarantee Suryavarman won't have CoL soon. We have sugar, so calendar increases our happy cap as well.

Switch Athens to clam+lake when you play -- we always want to work those tiles. Postpone either the priests or the hills. Start growing and don't worry too much about the happy cap -- we will have HR soon enough (and the sugar).

I'm reluctant to build temples/missionaries -- keep this to a minimum (buddhist missionaries are OK). Other than the religious stuff your plan looks good.

Don't bother getting more settlers if there are no food resources left.

Emperor Peter said:

Hi all, I'm back online. You can put me back on the roster if you want. I will catch up on the thread soon.
I was forced to leave my home but I have found temporary shelter with internet so I can play again earlier than expected.

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Sure, welcome back! I'll slide you in somewhere.

Hmh, I guess I forgot again what the variant does to backfills and acquiring techs - every tech costs and must be fought for Yeah, exploiting every tech broker we can > tech priority order pretty much. I withdraw my daft statements about Monarchy first.

I'd still advocate some spread of Confu/Hindu to Athens/Vienne to speed up the grind. I agree that Temples in other cities aren't worth it with Calendar&HR nearby.

I'll play tonight, if no more comments. About 10t, I guess.

I think I will spread at least one more religion to Vienne, but stick with two in Athens for now in favour of market and growth. Then just make sure Athens beats Vienne to the first GP. Does that sound right?

What's our policy on demands? Agree to anything from Sury, deny everything else?

Agree to everything as long as it doesn't hurt our relationship with Suryavarman. He is our main friend, but if we can avoid making everybody upset that would be nice -- maybe we can get more friendlies eventually with Buddhism/civics.