Immortal Huge 18 Civilizations

CHEESE!'s explanation on chain irrigation was better, and it is good to chain irrigate your farmable resources (assume they're not irrigated already) because you get +1 food for irrigated tiles.

Plus, it looks purrteh on the map.

Ok that makes sense. I only thought that you could just build a farm on corn/wheat etc. But irrigation makes one more food. Interesting....

I went with my plan, and teched Masonry while chopping out a third workboat. By turn 63, I had my third workboat out, had a road to the Stone, grew to size three, had Masonry and was about to build a Quarry on the Stone.



After Masonry I went Sailing, and after the Workboat I went Warrior -> Warrior -> Warrior to help the happy cap and the spawnbust situation. Once I hit size four, I was working the 3 clams and the plains hill.



By turn 74 I had it so that my warrior being built would happen the same turn as Sailing getting finished (by working 3 clams, Quarry'd Stone, Unforest Riverside Hill, then later the Forested Plains Hill), so that I can start to work on the Lighthouse, which will be whipped for 2 pop.



By turn 78 my last warrior (I hope) is finished, and I send him to the southwest corner to spawnbust the last spot. I re-arranged my eastern warriors to cover more to the south, and to cover the eastern coast so there is less of a chance for me to encounter Barbarian Galleys, which are a pain.



By turn 81 I'm half-way done Mysticism, I have just switched to Slavery for the 2 pop-whip of the Lighthouse, I have finished mining the Riverside Grassland Hill and my warriors will have a perfect land spawnbust in 1-2 turns. My worker is now chopping the forest plains hill, and then he'll be mining it.



Now, it's decision time. We hit turn 82, whipped Paris from size 5 to size 3 (grew to size four on turn 83) and we also finished our spawnbusting, with most of the coastal sea tiles being covered as well.



Questions:

1) What do we tech after Mysticism? Should we go up the Writing/Aesthetics line, up the Priesthood/Oracle line, or should we hit up some more economical techs like Animal Husbandry/Pottery/Iron Working?

2) I'm still curious about whether or not everyone likes my dotmap. Would appreciate if someone would comment on it, or if they post their own. (Check questions in the last round I played).

3) Should I build The Great Lighthouse now, or should I be building a Settler or another Worker? (The whip overflow hasn't been used yet).

Over-all a good round, accomplishing everything I wanted to do, without any problems. Will post another round later tomorrow, as I have the day off (though I have to Christmas shop!).

I would:
Poly -> Priesthood -> Writing

While you're building oracle, you can get writing in the same amount of time it takes to build oracle : of course, you MUST make sure writing gets in on or before the time oracle gets built.

Being industrial, and maybe needing triremes, maybe go for Metal Casting and tech towards Code of Laws after writing for both : Caste system (with mids and workshops very powerful) plus a chance at getting a nice religion. This path sounds actually better to me.
-Also, since food is only decent at best, unhappiness won't be too much of an issue, so going for the religion will alleviate most unhappiness issues without side-tracking to monarchy.

The great lighthouse, I don't think will be too much of a game-maker, spend the hammers on pyramids or settlers.

-Herrhals

My 2 cents. Think of this longterm.

What is your goal. How will the map look like, and how will the other civs evolve in that time.

18 civs/huge means lots of trading partners and lots of land.
You being isolated, means there is probably lots of islands/continents. So getting optics/astronomy seems key.

You are industrious with BFC stone and 3x clam. This means you can get every single wonder you want.

Make sure you get a good producing 2nd city which can push out settlers + workers like crazy.
Tech tech tech. Get oracle/mids/lighthouse/TGL.

Your *dotmap is flawed. f.e. your number 2 city should be founded 1 north, else the pigs will not be used (which is a great resource).

Can you add resource bubbles to your screenshots? I can't see if you have any AH resources without opening the save.

I'm not convinced you have enough production to nab the Oracle (there are 17 other civs and a lot of them will try a shot at it) as well but if you do manage to get it take Aesthetics as freebie with TGL as the goal.
OTOH, with a chop and a whip you can probably get SH.

Techs: Pigs is under jungle so AH isn't needed right now, although it could reveal horses.

I'd probably go pottery>Writing. Since you've got so much jungle, IW after that could prove a good decision to develop your land.

I've done a quick dotmap to use all your food. Note there are 2 variants: red/blue. There is 1 fog tile that might contain a seafood resource. If there's one, take the blue pattern, otherwise red pattern.


There's some space between the southern two red cities that could use a city. It'd be productive after CS with chain irrigation and profitable with GLH.

You need to explore a few other spots that could reveal land or a 1-tile ocean.
-near western fish
-near eastern clams
-near southern clams
-southwest of wheat

Otherwise, agree with Flux.

Use alt+s for a dotmap, it's easier and faster

I've never been successful on a huge map. When there's 18 civilizations it seems to be a lot easier to get ganged up on, and whenever I have tried to get a religion (Usually Judaism or one of the later ones) there's already this bloc of countries that are buddhists and good luck trying to convert any of them. I'd really like to learn to play huge though, I have the computer and there's something cool about having so many countries on the map

Alright, I'll make my second city build a warrior to explore the rest of the map. Added to that though, I do like kossin's dotmap, but wouldn't settling the northwestern fish city 1N be better? I'm almost sure there's going to be some sort of resource 3W of the capital, and moving it 1N would add 2 hills. Then again, there might also be a resource in between the jungle 1W of my westernmost warrior.

So, what should my future tech path and build path be? After The Great Lighthouse (if I continue to build it) I was thinking going Settler -> Worker -> Monument (Being Charismatic and all) -> Oracle -> The Pyramids. Of course this could change based on what happens, but I think that roughly looks good.

For my second city, I was thinking Warrior (Whip) -> Monument (Whip) -> Workboat -> Lighthouse -> Settlers and Workers.

I don't need IW too early, as only my third settler will actually need IW (if I settle 1N of kossin's northeast spot, then settle the pigs/fish). So what should the techpath look like? Considering I DO want the Great Library, and Code of Law won't be that use to use compared to Currency, I was thinking Polytheism -> Priesthood -> Writing -> (Writing and Iron Working can be switched around) Iron Working -> Aesthetics.

@V3N0M - I've only won 2 out of 4 Immortal 18 Huge games. The two I won were with Saladin and Julius (yeah yeah...), while I've lost with Justin (was on a small cont with Shaka, Izzy, constant war and I got too far behind in tech. Caught up somewhat once I met everyone else and manage to kill many citizens for a 4GP bulbing spree to hit a monopoly tech, but I think it was either Zara or Louis who hit a Cultural Victory). The last game I got owned by the Vedic Aryans?. Whichever ones are the horses.

Perhaps moving both western cities 1N would be best yes. Takes away some overlap, adds some and you forgo the desert tile SW.

If you can get the Oracle, make sure you have Writing before it completes for Aesthetics freebie. It'll gain you a good 30 turns of teching.
Just make sure you get pottery in there somewhere for granaries to whip.

Alright, so I'll play a round tomorrow morning, but I'd like some more discussion before I play. Does everyone like Poly -> Priesthood -> Pottery -> Writing -> Iron Working? If I hit the Oracle, wouldn't it be better to take Metal Casting instead of Aesthetics? I think this depends on if there are islands out there, but I would like to get a Trireme out to save my seafood, though a Galley would do a decent enough job.

I am following this thread with interest, and I got one question:

Why do you value TGL so high on this particular map?

You will need some more cities before it starts to have any effect, and even then - traderoutes to your own cities on the same island have very low income.

I think I would have skipped early sailing, built pyramids and ran scientists early on, you have the food ressources to do so. This would also speed up the oracle - I play 18 civ huge immortal only, and I know that it usually built really early. I usually play pangea or big_and_small though.

And as you already mentioned, you need 8 cities for many important national wonders (8 universities for oxford, 8 theaters for globe and so on). Since you wont be able to reach another landmass before astronomy, you should consider squeezing 8 cities on your island, even if that means that they heavily overlap.

GL!

Disregard that, that is a seriously tiny island for a huge map

So, I moved some of my scouting warriors around, and we found...



Nothing! No seafood on any of those potential seafood tiles, though there still are some spots where there could be an island. After Mysticism we teched Polytheism.

With only 11 turns left on the Great Lighthouse, we switched production to a Monument as we grew pop, and did a 2 pop whip on it:



Once we hit 5 pop again I dropped a citizen from working the clam, and I worked 2 clams, the stone and the two hills to get the Great Lighthouse out quicker without the whip (though the whip over-flow from the Monument helps).

Our worker is now chopping the hill, mining it after.

6 turns after the Monument whip (instead of the 11 turns from regular production), The Great Lighthouse is in! We now switch production to a settler to get the whip anger away, and to tech closer to Priesthood:



We switched the Plains hill for the Clam to increase commerce and to get the settler out quicker. We got the herbalist even, but because I don't want anymore anger I just took the + happiness for 10 turns. Our worker is moving to the forested hill to chop and then mine it. Production after the settler will be a worker:



Turn 110 brings some good news. We finished our settler and settle him to the west fish site, as it has little jungle. We chop our worker out the same turn Priesthood is going to be completed, which is good micro. This is where we end the round.



Decision time:

1) Should we continue to go The Oracle after the worker is done? I believe the timing is still good, so I think we can still get Metal Casting off of The Oracle (I don't think Aest is possible, because we'd need to tech Pottery + Writing, not just Pottery).

2) What should my workers be doing? I think I'm going to send my first worker down to the new city site to chop and then mine the riverside grassland hill. I believe my newly built worker will chop a forest then mine a hill, depending on how many turns Oracle/Pottery will be finished by.

3) After the Monument, I am going to build a workboat. Because I'm not whipping the Monument (chopping), I'm going to be whipping the workboat most likely, depending on when the border pop is. Does growing + building a Granary look good after the Workboat? It will then set me up to spam workers and settlers from this city.

4) My next city is going to be placed by the pigs/fish to the east. Does building a Library (whipping) first, then using it to run 2 scientist specialists sound good? Hopefully I'll have IW by then.

Any other comments are appreciated. I'm pretty sure Pottery -> Animal Husbandry (Cheaper Writing + Pigs, potentially find Horses) -> Writing -> Aest/Ironworking is the best tech route after Priesthood. I'm fairly sure I'll follow kossin's dotmap, while moving the westernmost cities 1N (as I have already done for the first city).

Kadazzle said:

@V3N0M - I've only won 2 out of 4 Immortal 18 Huge games. The two I won were with Saladin and Julius (yeah yeah...), while I've lost with Justin (was on a small cont with Shaka, Izzy, constant war and I got too far behind in tech. Caught up somewhat once I met everyone else and manage to kill many citizens for a 4GP bulbing spree to hit a monopoly tech, but I think it was either Zara or Louis who hit a Cultural Victory). The last game I got owned by the Vedic Aryans?. Whichever ones are the horses.

Click to expand...

I totally forgot to mention I was playing on noble. And usually get crushed by stacks from multiple civs.

GLh doubles your trade income post astronomy which is like an extra 100 commerce a turn with 10 cities?

I would have made an attempt at this despite my crappy laptop, but the island is very small so the interesting part will be handling the game late and turns take too long at that point for me.

Yeah. I'm going to try and play a round tomorrow, but then I'll be gone for a week.

Well, on turn 111 we have our workers set: One is chopping the riverside forested hill (then mining it), while the second is chopping a forest for a quicker Oracle. In a distant land, a Great Scientist is born. Great



Sadly, with 1 turn left before I was ready to whip The Oracle (I had my new city working a crappy coast tile to boost research to hit Pottery) a distant civilization hits The Oracle and takes Confucianism! Darn! I knew we should've double chopped the capital My bad. We start on The Pyramids, to make sure we don't lose it. We're also going to double chop it, to be extra safe.



Turn 127 brings some bad news. Our mine had a massive explosion! Stupid events. We want to run 100% science as long as possible, and the only thing for my workers to do is mine hills and cottage the second city (which won't be able to work them until size three anyways, and it still has to whip the Workboat) so I just spend the 5 gold for no unhappiness.



Something good happened on turn 127 though



Pyramids finished! We put work onto the Moai Statues as we don't need anything else right this moment, as a settler cant wait until we nearly have writing (after the Statues).



We completed Animal Husbandry and...



We has horses, like I though We're chopping out the Workboat now, so we're going to whip out a Granary shortly. Second city is working Coast + Mine to hurry workboat/writing, while the capital is working it's usual mines/clams.

By turn 134 we're nearly ready to whip the Moai Statues. Our workers are working on pasturing the horses for another hammer+commerce tile that can be worked, and roading it as well. Mines and cottages will go up next, while we tech towards Iron Working after Writing.



Turn 135 brings some fun. Slave rebellion in Paris. Tons' o fun. We take the -10 gold, -1 pop and 1 turn of disorder so that we don't have constant slave rebellions. Added to that a Great Prophet and a Great General were born, meaning some war monger was having a little fun in the other continent



Keep in mind, this brings the total GP count for the AI's too (I believe):
2 Great Prophet (One built the Kong Moaio)
2 Great Scientists (Both settled/acadamied I'm guessing, Philo isn't gone yet)
1 Great General

Second city is now working the Fish + the Mine. Size three will be Horses/Fish/Mine, size four will be Horses/Fish/Mine/Cottage, most likely.

Turn 140 brings the end to this round. Our first worker completes the pasture on the horses, while the second worker who finishes the road goes to build a cottage for second city. We 2 pop-whip the Moai Statues this turn. Now, discussion:



(Keep in mind I've already adjusted my spawn-busting warriors to cover more of the coast as we can cover more due to border expansion, so galley's aren't going to be a huge problem, if a problem at all).

1) What should the whip over-flow in Paris go into? I was thinking of either three things, a Library for a science boost, a Granary to help with whipping or a settler. Obviously there are pros and cons we all of them, but personally I believe the Granary will be the best choice. We have Representation, so we get +3 happiness, so we can grow the capital bigger, meaning more whipping power. We don't have IW yet, so the only tiles we'd be able to work to the east for a 3rd city would be the fish, and it will increase health (which Paris gets unhealthy at size 7). So, I believe we should go Granary -> 2 pop whip -> Library (Scientists, quicker Iron Working) -> 2 pop whip -> Settler. This will increase whipping power, science and will make sure we can get enough workers and Iron Working out when we settle city number three.

2) What should the worker that just finished the Pasture do? I was thinking of either building a mine for the capital, or building a cottage for the second city. Second city won't be whipped much, but the capital will, so I believe the cottage would be a better choice.

3) Should we run specialists in the capital once we have the Library up, or should we worker/wonder spam, while working those mines?

4) What should we do with our first GP? We get it in 5-7 turns, and it will either be a Great Prophet, Great Engineer or a Great Merchant. For the Great Prophet I believe we should settle. GE, we should hold off for the Great Library? But what should we do for the Great Merchant?

I'm going away today, so happy holidays! I'd like some discussion, so try to nitpick mistakes I've made if you spot any

I know you didn't plan to expand too quickly but you have 2 cities in 500BC. Fill up your whole island in the next 30-40 turns is my suggestion. You need to grow and develop those cities too and the later you found them, the more disadvantaged you are.

Yeah, What Dankok8 said. Moai statues instead of settlers? Now that is wonderwhoring at it's finest.

GLH really won't 'shine' until you have friends to trade with. You should be expecting a great merchant from it though, have you checked to see if there is a tech combo that will give you a bulb up the optics line?

Also, the GLH does nothing at all until you have enough cities to make any use of the extra trade routes.

Personally, I wouldnt have built GLH, and certainly not Moai that early.