Diary of a Mad King - An Imperialism II AAR

Dale said:

Hey Thorn, I found my way over here.

Nice AAR.

For a town to produce finished goods you need to upgrade it (as you mentioned) plus you need the same requirements as you need at home. So to build 1 fabric the province needs 2 sheep/cotton connected to the town. For 1 steel you need 2 iron ore connected to the town.

Hope that helps.

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This is wrong.
The requirement is that the province needs to be producing 4 of the resource. These resources don't even need to be connected, whether to the town or to your trade network. Of course the town itself needs to be upgraded and connected.

For example, for a town to produce 1 cast iron, the province needs to produce 4 iron, either with 4 iron ore at level 1 (rare), or 2 iron ore at level 2, or any such combination.

In fact, the town will produce a finished good for each multiple of 4 of the base resource produced in the province. So a town in a province producing 8 wood and 4 iron will produce 2 timber and 1 cast iron.


Note also that the thread on the Yahoo groups was specifically about how to get Paper from towns. I am not sure if I ever got paper from a Town. I just tested and at 8 wood, you get 2 timber, just like you would with other resources so maybe it's simply impossible to get paper.

Ahhhh you are correct on the double requirement. Hey, it's been a few years.

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Thorn, I decided to download Imperialism II off your site, and have been playing a game as Sweden on the second easiest level....

I actually have 4 towns producing finished goods... I have one town producing refined sugar (Unfortunately I can't seem to build up my sugar stockpile, even though I'm already refining enough sugar for all my aprentices, but as soon as I get the railroad through my new world provinces complete and upgrade my tobacco plantations to lv 3 production, I'll be able to produce enough cigars to convert them all to Journeymen anyways), as well as 2 lumber and 1 steel (not iron, STEEL)...

I managed to get control of Italy and Scotland (both on my continent) after boosting my relations with both of them, then France decided to declare war on first one then the other and I chose to intervene both times... Up until then, my food production sucked (despite having level 2 farms and ranches on every available tile that had meat and grain)...

It took a while to fully incorporate Scotland and Italy into my empire, during which time I was struggling (nobody seems to want to buy any of my raw materials or finished goods, and my only source of income is the $400 from royal estates and $450 from spices, and I'm also working on maxing my spice productions).....

However, now that I've got Italy fully developed and Scotland well on its way to being fully developed, I've managed to emerge at the top of the heap! I have the most Old World Provinces (15), the largest industrial capacity (although sugar refining and cigar production are taking up a disproportionate amount of that... I'm hoping once I upgrade all my tobacco plantations to level 2, that my new world provinces, all of which have upgraded towns, will soon start producing some cigars on their own, and once I do get my tobacco production increased, I'm also going to try converting more of my aprentices to Journeymen, so I can cut back on Sugar production), and one of the highest military rankings... The only area where I'm "relatively" weak is in my navy, but I'm planning on launching a few more East Indiamen and Raiders....

Sorry it's been so long since I updated. I got sick in mid September (doc said 'some kind of virus'). After two months (and even seeing a cardiologist!) I'm finally feeling better. I also upgraded to Windows 7 and had to reinstall everything. So without further ado, here's the continuing saga of the mad King of England...

Hikaro Takayama said:

Thorn, I decided to download Imperialism II off your site, and have been playing a game as Sweden on the second easiest level....

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Sounds like you have a lot of experience with Imperialism II.
Hope you're still playing!

Well, I quit in disgust when I found out that late-game how bad the AI cheats... I've repeatedly tried to take France's last city, which has 3 Artillery from their fort and 2 other Artillery, and they do not have the resources or manpower to make any more units....

REGARDLESS OF THAT, I send in maxed-out stacks of units (even one time with 12 Artillery of my own) and STILL CAN'T WIPE THEIR STUPID ASSES OUT!!!!

Why? Well, because, even with fast units, AS SOON AS MY UNIT GETS INTO RANGE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT THEIR TURN, EVERY SINGLE GUN OF THEIRS GETS OFF 2 SHOTS!!!!! THEN THEY GET TWO MORE DURING THEIR TURN!!!

Yeah, I wish I got two shots per turn and could automatically hit them anytime THEIR units got within range!!! Fking cheating AI anyways!

Yeah, this was actually discussed a couple of months ago on the Yahoo Imperialism board. Someone had the exact same problem as you. Here's the option that they said worked for them:

Get three sets of attack groups (9 field artillery if they are level 1's,6 if they are level 3 or 4, and the rest with sharpshooters). Take the opportunity fire away with the sharpshooters, then destroy the three emplaced siege guns and retreat; the fort will be reduced to level 2. Next turn, do the same to the two guns, then the final gun on the third turn. On the fourth, have light and heavy cavalry attack with a few sharpshooters and them out on foot.

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It was also mentioned that if you only had one province left to conquer on the map, you've won anyway! But I agree with you. I would just have to take that last city.

Sounds like a great strategy, but one slight problem with it: As soon as ANY unit, including sharpshooters or Cavalry, come into range to attack, THE DEFENDERS AUTO-ATTACK THEM TWICE PER SIEGE CANNON, wiping said attacking units out, rinse and repeat for EVERY SINGLE UNIT I THROW AT THEM, and I've just wasted 14 units.

Also, this was only FRANCE'S last province... Spain, England and the other major powers were still in the game (the minor powers and natives had been absorbed by that point), although I had a significant lead in Old World Provinces.... Still, the AI cheating like that just pisses me off! At least in Civ III you can pillage their improvements and "lay siege" to their city, starving it down to size one and forcing them to auto-disband every unit they have left (if no other option is available), but no such luck here!

Wow, I've been promoted to general!

I have played a game of Imperialism myself since the last update to brush up my memory and can thus provide a few general hints.

First, the one with the most powerful navy wins the game, period. Build a strong navy. Attack a weaker opponent, blockade his capital. Destroy half of his navy. Capture the other half, growing your naval strength exponentially. Marvel at your opponent being crippled. Repeat.

Well, I quit in disgust when I found out that late-game how bad the AI cheats... I've repeatedly tried to take France's last city, which has 3 Artillery from their fort and 2 other Artillery, and they do not have the resources or manpower to make any more units....

REGARDLESS OF THAT, I send in maxed-out stacks of units (even one time with 12 Artillery of my own) and STILL CAN'T WIPE THEIR STUPID ASSES OUT!!!!

Why? Well, because, even with fast units, AS SOON AS MY UNIT GETS INTO RANGE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT THEIR TURN, EVERY SINGLE GUN OF THEIRS GETS OFF 2 SHOTS!!!!! THEN THEY GET TWO MORE DURING THEIR TURN!!!

Yeah, I wish I got two shots per turn and could automatically hit them anytime THEIR units got within range!!! Fking cheating AI anyways!

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This is not cheating. You do get "two shots per turn". If you wait with your ranged units instead of moving then they can use their shot from the last turn if enemy walks into range and then you get to control them for your next turn, effectively giving you two shots per turn. You can, obviously, only do this on the defensive though.

AI is, however, dumb enough to use their "free shot" on first unit that gets into range and still has green on his health bar, so use fast, cheap, expendable units like Skirmishers or Sharpshooters to draw fire before you move in with your artillery or Heavy Inf.
Btw, massed Heavy Inf charges are my method of choice when capturing forts. With good general, you should need no more than 3 grenadiers/2 guards per enemy cannon.

It is, however, impossible to capture a province that has maxed its garrison (with soldiers of anything close to comparable quality); because there is a cap with how many forces you can actually attack with. For this reason, you need to draw their forces apart by creating fake beachheads, for which you need spare transport capacity. Ah, did I mention the player with strongest fleet wins the game?

EDIT: You obviously can't draw them apart if they have just 1 city left... but 5 artillery altogether is very much beatable.

EDIT2: Just in case, Thorn you do realize you have (at least) 3 developed, yet unconnected resources visible on your 1st screenshot?

Hikaro Takayama said:

Well, I quit in disgust when I found out that late-game how bad the AI cheats... I've repeatedly tried to take France's last city, which has 3 Artillery from their fort and 2 other Artillery, and they do not have the resources or manpower to make any more units....

REGARDLESS OF THAT, I send in maxed-out stacks of units (even one time with 12 Artillery of my own) and STILL CAN'T WIPE THEIR STUPID ASSES OUT!!!!

Why? Well, because, even with fast units, AS SOON AS MY UNIT GETS INTO RANGE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT THEIR TURN, EVERY SINGLE GUN OF THEIRS GETS OFF 2 SHOTS!!!!! THEN THEY GET TWO MORE DURING THEIR TURN!!!

Yeah, I wish I got two shots per turn and could automatically hit them anytime THEIR units got within range!!! Fking cheating AI anyways!

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I know Yeekim already said this, but I figure two voices can't be too much to go through all your caps.

They get two shots each the first turn you go into range (because they saved one from waiting the previous turn) and one per turn each turn after that.
Just like you do in the same situation. No cheating.

This post shows more about your understanding of the game than the cheating AI. You would probably benefit more from doing some testing or asking some questions than screaming about the murdering cheating AI...


To others:
I really like this game\thread, it made me start playing Imp 2 again.

I wish it would be updated more often so I figure I should do an AAR too. I was thinking of doing an "impossible" level one, to show some differences in the playing style.
I was wondering if people would rather read a random map or playing Portugal on the default map at impossible level, to make it more "replicable" (I could just give the map key or save in the random case anyway I suppose).
STD Portugal is kind of interesting because you know you have all the resources you need and they are already discovered, but you have little territory and hence little "total" food and resources, so you must attack Spain rather quickly.

What would you guys rather read?

Crush the Huns!

Wot wot

@ Yeekim: I've got a lot of undeveloped resources I need to take of. I'm trying to build up manpower right now. And the navy!

@ LulThyme: I've always liked the uncertainty of random maps. But 'impossible level'? Heck yeah I'd read that AAR!

@ Captain2: We shall be victorious! Unless the Spanish attack me. Or Sweden. Or anyone else.

LulThyme said:

I know Yeekim already said this, but I figure two voices can't be too much to go through all your caps.

They get two shots each the first turn you go into range (because they saved one from waiting the previous turn) and one per turn each turn after that.
Just like you do in the same situation. No cheating.

This post shows more about your understanding of the game than the cheating AI. You would probably benefit more from doing some testing or asking some questions than screaming about the murdering cheating AI...

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No, obviously you don't understand: I've played, and RE-PLAYED that same scenario about 100 times (re-loading off the saved game) with the same exact result! EVERY TIME I get into range AND every round THEREAFTER, the AI gets TWO SHOTS.... If what you say is true, then there is no way their 5 Siege cannons could beat my 12.... simple math and all, but they do, meaning that all my siege cannons are retreating/destroyed before I can get more than one round of attacks in...

Yes, the twice for first encounter and once per round thereafter works when I'M defending, but not the AI, obviously.... Hell, just to prove it, I'll see about installing CamStudio on the computer I have Imperialism II on, loading the saved game and RECORDING IT..


Oh, and your post has just been reported for trolling, have a nice day!

Thorn said:

@ Yeekim: I've got a lot of undeveloped resources I need to take of. I'm trying to build up manpower right now. And the navy!

@ LulThyme: I've always liked the uncertainty of random maps. But 'impossible level'? Heck yeah I'd that AAR!

@ Captain2: We shall be victorious! Unless the Spanish attack me. Or Sweden. Or anyone else.

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someone's missing a verb

Hikaro Takayama said:

If what you say is true, then there is no way their 5 Siege cannons could beat my 12.

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Sorry, but this does not follow. There is a way because fort walls provide cover (and the stronger the fort, the better the cover), therefore their cannons are far more resilient. You have 12 cannons? Does this mean you are trying to attack without a general? If so, morale of your troops is also lowest possible. What the enemy does not kill will be sent instantly running after first hit. And despite of their name, Siege Cannons really aren't very good choice for assaulting fortresses.

Hikaro Takayama said:

Yes, the twice for first encounter and once per round thereafter works when I'M defending, but not the AI, obviously.... Hell, just to prove it, I'll see about installing CamStudio on the computer I have Imperialism II on, loading the saved game and RECORDING IT..

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By all means, be our guest. Either your installation has some unique sort of a bug or you are misunderstanding combat mechanics. I hope you understand we are being quite sceptical about the first possibility.

Hikaro Takayama said:

Oh, and your post has just been reported for trolling, have a nice day!

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It is nice you appreciate constructive feedback. I only hope you won't fail to record your problem. Because in that case it would be you who has abused capslock three times because of non-existing issue.

#1 I DO appreciate CONSTRUCTIVE criticism... I've been in a really bad mood lately, and FYI, two sentences in one post hardly qualifies as "abusing the caps" This: OMGWTFBBQ?!?!?!!!!!!!!11111111111shiftone TOHES CHEATING AI SUXXORS!!! ZOMG!!!! is abusing the caps... I was just cheesed off at what appeared to be a no-win situation (At the time I was so mad I was on the verge of breaking my keyboard in half!) I'm sorry I snapped at you, ok... You know, 'tis the season, peace on earth and all that, and I was being a real humbug.

#2 I had not one, but TWO generals (so I could get the maximum stack size) along, and all they could do is MAYBE get one or two guns to stop their headlong retreats long enough to get blown into oblivion.

#3 I decided to try it again, but with a few different tactics... This time, I sent in a combined force of 6 Sharpshooters, 2 Carbine Cav, 6 Siege Cannons and two generals...

Surprisingly, even though the first round went just like I expected, i.e. the enemy got 12 shots right off the bat, for some reason their cannons WEREN'T able to one-shot my sharpshooters (normally they could send any of my Siege guns packing with a single hit), and I was able to get all my units into range (except one Siege gun that they sent packing), and was able to breach the wall and almost take out one of their 3 non-fort guns in the first round.... I was able to eventually take out one of the fort guns (waste of time, since they automatically regenerate if you don't take the fort completely out) and two of their actual Siege Cannons...

Of course, the cost was rather high: I lost three siege cannons, 2 Carbine Cavalry, 1 Sharpshooter and both generals before being forced to retreat.

The next turn, on the other hand, was a different story, because THIS time, they only had 4 defenders (5 if you count their lame-duck general) to try and stop what I had coming down the pipeline: I sent in my three Guards (Heavy Inf), my one light cavalry, my last general in the theater of operations, a spear Cav and 8 siege guns.

I was able to wipe out the last of their defenses with only losing the light cav (blown away in the first move!) and one siege gun, and France is no more.

So, notes to self for future ref: Train more Sharpshooters... Somehow, in defiance of all logic, they can actually take 2-3 hits from a siege gun and still keep going somehow, when my heavy artillery gets one-shoted (of course, I'm used to playing Age of Empires III where you need a serious cavalry force or culverins (dedicated anti-artillery artillery) to take out even a relatively small group of them before they are able to level half your base... Oh, and did I mention that AoE artillery, with the exception of said Culverins, can wipe out about 7 infantry per shot?).... Ditto goes for Carbine Cavalry and Guard Infantry... Just use my siege cannons to breach the walls from a safe distance, then send everyone forward to take advantage of it... Still, dealing with what essentially amounted to a 6-siege cannon force was NOT fun (I still need to re-build my forces, but I got plenty of resources to do it with.... My artisans (apprentices, Journeymen and Masters) are cranking out 20 wood, steel and cast iron per turn, and that's not counting the stuff that my various heavily-developed provinces are auto-producing....

Hikaro Takayama said:

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Nah, I'm glad it finally worked out for you.
I believe you have now discovered for yourself that massed artillery attack is not such a good way to take forts in this game.

Yeekim said:

Nah, I'm glad it finally worked out for you.
I believe you have now discovered for yourself that massed artillery attack is not such a good way to take forts in this game.

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Indeed... Apparently, at least for this game, Field Marshall Haig (BEF commander at the Somme) had the right idea (massed infantry assault).