KoS2 - There can be only war

kossin said:

CoL isn't high on the priority list... Ziggurats come with Priesthood.

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Oh duh. I totally forgot. Yea, in that case Priesthood is a priority!

Builds
Yeah, a library whip in Kish in 2 turns will let us run two scientists instead of those silly ocean tiles.

Do we really need lighthouses in any city other than Uruk? Eridu will hit happy cap next growth, and could be stagnated by working the plains hills (would need to be mined though). Likewise, once we have a library in Kish, won't it be better to run two scientists over some ocean tiles? I guess I'm wondering why spend hammers/pop on a building that we probably won't get benefits from very soon.
I'd certainly agree with a two pop whip lighthouse in Uruk in two turns.

We could use the hammers to build a spy in Kish and more vultures in Eridu (combat troops in Eridu to take advantage of the general)

Units
Why is the WoodII vulture in Kish? Wasn't the plan to try to catch a worker? Or is that too risky now that there's an archer on the pigs? At the very least maybe switch the combat! vulture with the WoodII?

Techs
I third going straight for priesthood, hopefully by the point we've finished that we'll be able to trade for math to get the discount on currency.

kossin said:

Sorry, I don't know why you moved 2 Vultures alone while there was a Chariot in range.. adding an archer would have likely changed results quite a bit.

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A move. I felt Sal wasn't going to attack the initial 2 vultures & archer. I was hoping that the terrain bonus would have help against the chariot but obviously it didn't.

I agree with changing research to med + priesthood.

Why is the WoodII vulture in Kish? Wasn't the plan to try to catch a worker? Or is that too risky now that there's an archer on the pigs? At the very least maybe switch the combat! vulture with the WoodII?

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After attacking Shaka's archer I moved him back into our culture to heal quicker. Didn't realise I moved him into the city. Another move.

Have a nice holiday mfie.

Nice set TSM.

I agree to tech to PH. Lagash is already 6.33 in maintenance. Courthouses will help out. Agree on scouting also. I use Bug 4.2 and it says Boudica and saladin only have 1 city a piece. All 3 people we are at war with only have 1 city? I think after PH maybe try to tech towards Construction and HBR. If they still only have 1 city. WE and cats will wipe out our 3 rivals. Although we might need currency for the economy.

I agree on Lighthouse in capital, but eridu like stochastic said could just work the plains hill mine and no growth. And kish on scientists makes sense here also. Eridu could start pumping units as it has settled GG now. Also agree with kossin about maybe another worker.

No... 1 city is the minimum for existence. Since we can't talk to them, we can't see more cities since they're in fog. BUG 4.1 and below gave info you couldn't see.

kossin said:

No... 1 city is the minimum for existence. Since we can't talk to them, we can't see more cities since they're in fog. BUG 4.1 and below gave info you couldn't see.

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Oh ok thanks for the info. Ok then disregard some of my last post.

IHT
Set research towards PH

Uruk->Lighthouse
Send the Vulture with 5xp out after promoting to WII.

Turn 104
Move spear on cow by Lagash as Sal has a Chariot over there
Eridu: workboat for exploration
Kish: Library. It doesn't have enough food for 2 scientists so It'll be whipped into a lighthouse
Trade with Liz:


Turn 105
Spear kills chariot (0.9 health left. Another chariot will be here next turn)
Lagash: pull back workers
Saladin brings another mini-stack to our borders: 2 Axes, 2 Chariots, 1 Spear


Turn 106
Uruk: 2-whip Lighthouse
Eridu: worker
Kish: 2-whip Library
Lagash: workers stuck between Sal's stack so they wait a turn
Find a barb city with 1 archer left... Shaka has 3 archers next to it. 2 vultures go towards it

Turn 107
Boudi captures barb city (1 archer 1 chariot) - kill archer with Vulture, 2nd Vulture in range for next turn
Sal attacks... 3 kills 2 deaths (Archers)
Lagash: Vulture kills Chariot
Eridu: 2-whip worker
Uruk: Spy

Turn 108
Sal attacks again, kills 1 Archer, loses chariot. Attack axe with Vulture and win.
Eridu: Vulture
Worker moves to Uruk to improve Iron (yay!)
Raze Yayoi


Turn 109
Eridu: 2xArcher queued for Kish
Medi in, start PH

Turn 110
Eridu: research. Spy sent towards WK

Turn 111
Trade with WK


Turn 112
Iron improved, will be hooked up next turn.
Uruk put on prevent growth so we don't go unhappy just yet

Shaka attacks us! hehehehe

Kish: Ziggurat
Spot 2 galleys from WK coming through our land... I think there might be settlers in those = bad for our proposed bananas site


PH in, put in Math as nobody other than SB has it. Queud Ziggurat in Kish and Lagash.



I stop here...

Closing borders with WK will achieve nothing since he can go around them anyway. We also can't rush a settler there before he lands, if he has a settler in the first galley.

We've got enough land to our east and we'll have to worry about Sal and Boudi anyway. It's a shame though as it looked like a good city spot.

I'm out of town for the next 3 days so good luck to the team!

1. kossin - Just played
2. mfie - UP!
3. Stochastic - On deck
4. mjg5591
5. cripp7
6. Meerk
7. The Simple Mind

Good set, I like the trades!

kossin said:

Shaka attacks us! hehehehe

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Nice to see Shaka wasting his great general like that!

kossin said:

Spot 2 galleys from WK coming through our land... I think there might be settlers in those = bad for our proposed bananas site

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A shame if that does happen, we'll loose an elephant or two as well. Maybe we'll be able to culture flip it eventually though.

Builds
We'll get a second GS in the next set, I'm assuming we'll make an academy in Uruk?

I think we'll be able to two pop whip the ziggurat in Kish in two turns, that should definitely be done as we are working unimproved tiles otherwise.

Techs
After math do we want to go straight for construction or get currency first?
I'm leaning towards currency, I think we've got Shaka firmly pinned as long as we keep replacing units, and I think the extra trade routes are desperately needed.

Units
Maybe we should move a healthy vulture down from Lagash to defend the forested road from Shaka's archer. We don't want him pillaging it and cutting our gold supply off.

Once we've got ziggurats in Kish and Lagash maybe we should consider building a settler for the "sugared banana" site and cottage spaming it. (Assuming WK has settled the ele banana site)

GS... Actually I'm not sure. Settling might still be a better option right now should we yake away the scientists...


Currency for certain. Building wealth next to hurry up Construction/HBR. I'm thinking we should save EPs on WK for MC.

Other option for cities are islands ones. They'll be worth 7 base commerce after Currency.
Shaka won't move the archer... at least not for the last 4 turns

Merry X-mas everyone!

Next GS should be settled as we're not making enough yet to utilize the academy. Agree about Currency next, that +1 TR will help a lot. Also agree about protecting that road to Lagish. Builds look good, 2-pop the zigs will help.

kossin said:

GS... Actually I'm not sure. Settling might still be a better option right now should we yake away the scientists...

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cripp7 said:

Next GS should be settled as we're not making enough yet to utilize the academy.

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I was thinking that we currently have 12bpt from the settled GS and 2 specialists, so the +50% from the academy would equal the 6bpt from a second settled GS. Then when we are running at 100% science (rare right now but hopefully not for long as currency and ziggs come in) the extra 50% will go a long way. We will currently have 15 commerce which will grow bigger with time, 50% of that is better than a settled GS.

We would loose one hammer per turn, and also loose out if we fire the two science specialists (as Kossin pointed out). But based on the past few sets I think we will bump the slider more often than we fire the specialists, and approximating one turn of bump => 1 turn of science specialists, we would still come out ahead with an academy.

Stochastic said:

I was thinking that we currently have 12bpt from the settled GS and 2 specialists, so the +50% from the academy would equal the 6bpt from a second settled GS. Then when we are running at 100% science (rare right now but hopefully not for long as currency and ziggs come in) the extra 50% will go a long way. We will currently have 15 commerce which will grow bigger with time, 50% of that is better than a settled GS.

We would loose one hammer per turn, and also loose out if we fire the two science specialists (as Kossin pointed out). But based on the past few sets I think we will bump the slider more often than we fire the specialists, and approximating one turn of bump => 1 turn of science specialists, we would still come out ahead with an academy.

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I tend to think this way as well. We obviously will want an academy in Uruk down the road. We may or may not want to put another GS there, as opposed to an academy somewhere else once we have a cottage-rich city.

The only downside of Academy is we'll have a lot of units and I expect the slider to be ->0% a lot more often than ->100%.

Beaker-wise, Academy will net more over time for certain. Consider my position as no strong opinion

I'm not good with the calculations on settling or Academy. I always build academy first though, just in case it takes awhile to pop another GS or if NE is built odds for artist could pop always scares me. So if I had to decide I would go academy. But if we can pop another GS before we build or pollute the pool then settle seems fine also.

Stochastic pretty much nailed the difference.

Settling vs Academy is basically:
1 more beaker+1 / turn vs. more beakers once the slider is up.

The next GP will take 300GPP so that's possibly at most 50 turns away if we keep running 2 scientists.

Thus Academy costs 50 but will gain beakers overall (can't say how much for certain since too many unknown variables are needed).

I think beakers are more needed right now anyway.

EDIT:

Just remembered mfie said he couldn't play until the new year so I'm swapping him with the first person that picks up the save.

I could take it tomorrow morning (GMT -8), but if someone else can take it earlier that is fine by me.

Good enough.
New roster:

1. kossin - Just played
2. Stochastic - UP!
3. mfie - On deck
4. mjg5591
5. cripp7
6. Meerk
7. The Simple Mind

After reviewing/re-familiarising myself with the situation here is the plan, will play in ~12 hours

Techs
Math then Currency, keep Uruk on the build research at least until math, maybe a bit longer depending on how fast the Zigs come in. (Next thing I’d have it build is a settler and that will be dependant on maintenance costs)

Builds
Eridu ~2 more archers for Kish, then depending on what Saladin has sent our way more archers or vultures.

Kish–> whip the Zig asap. Then maybe a galley, I’ll see what is going on at the time.

Lagash–> Let the granary finish naturaly (one pop whip not as useful) then wip Zig asap. Then library if I don’t need the troops. Culture will help get the extra gold tile and when research is at 100% it will really help while working those tiles.

Uruk –> Like I said, research until we can afford a fifth city. Also, I'm going to go for the Academy when the GS comes in.

Units
Send a vulture to intercept archer around Lagash. Wait for combat odds to be >75% though.
Send the woodsII vulture in Kish to go exploring/barb bashing to the East
What’s the worker north of Uruk doing? Looks like it is on idle...
Mine the copper by Lagash
Send the spy past Seoul to scout a bit. It will then return to steal techs from Pyong Yang. Reason being I don’t thing we’ll have enough eps points to steal a tech by the time the spy is at 5turns wait, so I may as well use the spy to keep an eye on Saladin.

Looks fine to me. Keep an eye out for resource trades.... happy ones. Give away just about anything to get our hands on more happy.

OK, I'll keep an eye on the tech trade situation as well, I'm playing now.

OK, I’m at a bit of a dilemma three turns into my set, I have a relatively important decision to make regarding troop movement. So I’m posting my few turns and the save ‘till now, and ask for some extra input to help resolve me of any blame

Inherited turn 112
Moved vulture with CI to roaded forest SW of Lagash
Moved vulture with WoodII in Eridu SE

Turn 113
Saladin is sending another stack towards us. Looks scarier than the last one, it has horse archers as well. Recall vulture with WoodII.
I’m torn about whether to whip an archer in Kish or not. The shock Axeman should be able to take out at least two of Saladins Axes. The Spear should be able to take out one horse archer, maybe two. I think the worst case will be two chariots and one HA vs a city guard 3 archer (enroute) and a WoodII vulture. I decide to not whip an archer because I can bring the CI vulture from Lagash down to help draw the stack and do some damage. (hopefully Saladin doesn’t have two stacks!)

Also, Kossin was right, the Korean boat did contain a Settler.


Turn 114.
OK, so the plan when pretty much as thought, I lost the CI vulture but took out one Chariot and wounded another. Saladin’s stack is now on the hill. Also note Cheju founded on our peninsula.
I move the workers mining the jungle hill SE into a jungle. Will build a road there then do some chopping. I figure it is better than sending them into Kish and doing nothing.


Turn 115
So I really shouldn’t haven’t have said that about a second stack. Saladin has another HA patrolling around north of Lagash, not a stack. Also, the initial stack has moved further into our territory, they are now due East of Eridu. Finally, note our gpt. 0 at 0%. Those Zigs can’t come soon enough.


Eridu finishes another archer, I que a Vulture, it may be needed to retake Kish.

So here is the question: I have a hard choice about the archer coming in as reinforcement. It can’t reach Eridu in one turn, but will be vulnerable to the stack. I could either
1) Move it North one into the jungle and hope that the hill hides it from Saladin’s sight, hopefully he won’t move further and will be unwilling to send a mounted unit after it and Saladin will spend a turn healing the Chariot.
2)Send the archer onto the Jungle Hill and promo to GuerillaII. It would have a total of +150% defense, so it would probably take out one HA and wound the second. The idea would be that this would help take pressure off of Kish. If Saladin attacks this turn I’m not sure that Kish’s defenders would survive.

Here is the current situation:


Basically the question is, can we get away with hoping that Saladin will heal the Chariot before attacking Kish, or do we need to distract him some more with a slightly squishier target?

I'll wait until evening (~12hrs) for comments then I'll go ahead with the consensus. My current instinct is to send the Archer onto the hill and promo to hope for a suicide from some HAs (ie option 2).


And the save for those who want a more indepth look.