Role Play Challenge, TNG:The Dalai Lama, A One City Challenge

I deliberately fed china in this game as that was a shield for almost the whole time. By capping khan, he removed that threat. By drawing massive ire with the rest of the world, he kept attention off early. Later on he got massive and powerful (even flinging nukes), such that a DP with him wouldn't break any rules. He was war-torn enough to be slower to space though, especially because I denied (hell, relied on) internet. I find it interesting that I was able to scrape up a comparable time to orzio despite having 100's fewer beakers/turn :lol:.
 
TheMeInTeam said:
I deliberately fed china in this game as that was a shield for almost the whole time. By capping khan, he removed that threat. By drawing massive ire with the rest of the world, he kept attention off early. Later on he got massive and powerful (even flinging nukes), such that a DP with him wouldn't break any rules. He was war-torn enough to be slower to space though, especially because I denied (hell, relied on) internet. I find it interesting that I was able to scrape up a comparable time to orzio despite having 100's fewer beakers/turn :lol:.
Click to expand...

Well you are a far better player than me so I am not suprised:).

Major thing that slowed me down was the fact that the AI was at war so much that there teach rate was extremmly slow making the internet that I build not really usefull think I got 1 usefull teach from it. Had to teach the rest myself.

And it was almost 200 more breakers had 982 or something like that the turn I sent my space ship away. THan I got declared war on and lost some trades and improvments so it went down.

China was a real warmonger and major power in my game to until very late when mony actully made him into his vassal :p the fact that mony didnt make america into a vassla but actully killed him of completly really made him extremlly strong.
 
Fun game so far. I haven't touched civ in 3 months, but picked it back up tonight for this one. Unfortunately, had to quit at 1000 AD for tonight. I added one additional rule, that I had to give in to every demand except war declarations (mainly because I thought it was one of mad's rules, but looks like I was wrong).

Don't know if I'm going to win yet or not, but I sure loved this first screenshot:

Spoiler :

Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg


Now THAT is what I call a Buddhist block! Louis converted shortly thereafter too. Fantastic that Izzy is hindu, how perfect. All it took was a shrine, three missionaries and the AI did the rest, spreading buddhism EVERYWHERE!

Then your basic stuff - wonderspamming, settling great people, racing toward lib, and all of a sudden, world war:

Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg


That all happened practically on the same turn - pretty wild. Asoka DOWed me early, but now he's up to pleased - he didn't want to fight my dogs on a fort tile. Hardest part of this game is giving in to all the demands, including "fair" trades:

Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg


So, right at lib, cut off - tech is looking pretty good, but an OCC usually starts to sag techwise about now for me.

Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg


I've got Cahokia looking pretty good from a beakers perspective - went lib-astro to get the observatory up and running sooner.

Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg


Trying to be first to econ for the merchant. Just about all the buddhists are friendly with all the demands I've given into, so plan is probably to head to internet and go for space.

 
TheMeInTeam said:
I deliberately fed china in this game as that was a shield for almost the whole time. By capping khan, he removed that threat. By drawing massive ire with the rest of the world, he kept attention off early. Later on he got massive and powerful (even flinging nukes), such that a DP with him wouldn't break any rules. He was war-torn enough to be slower to space though, especially because I denied (hell, relied on) internet. I find it interesting that I was able to scrape up a comparable time to orzio despite having 100's fewer beakers/turn :lol:.
Click to expand...

Spoiler :
just played this out, went for a space race victory, unfortunately catherine went for it way earlier than she did in TMIT or orzio's game. she ended up launching in something like 1926, only missing 1 engine. i wasn't too far behind (no casings :/ ) no relation problems at all this game for me, only toku declared war ( not even sure why actually) but it was a lame duck war. QSH ended up vazaling 7 while monte had 4 or 5, only cathy and cyrus were free. the reason i lost is because no one would trade aluminum and internet turned out to be completely uselss (except archery horseback riding and divine right! o wait, also facism.
 
OCC space is as much about AI denial as it is getting there yourself. It's hard to match the tech rate of more cities, but by spamming wonders it reduces the AI speed also.

Getting religion, sistine, and to a lesser extent other strong culture wonders (especially ones giving artists) will hamper AI culture.

Snagging mids, winning lib, and playing trades a bit tight helps slow down space. Denying the AI internet is extremely useful.

Speaking of internet, once you have it, you want to max its benefit, which means deliberately researching toward fusion or genetics first, giving the AI time to cover other techs for you. I got rocketry, satellites, fission, and IIRC part of one other space tech from internet (in addition to a lot of earlier skipped things like arty/fascism/democracy/etc). While heading internet I only traded for technologies on that direct beeline after my shot to bio. This maximized the internet's effects and minimized the AI tech rate ---> one reason space was won late, but won by ME.

I could have used some better BPT though. I think building research post-lab just barely put me over 1000...while building parts I wasn't even getting 800 which is why I launched with everything but the 2nd engine (science bottleneck, not production). The effects of wars + my trade policy post-bio were very telling in the final screen shot though. Often macro strategy winds up more important than micro decisions.
 
1971 AD Space

(Note: One NW not mentioned by Mad above was the Hermitage, which is also completely useless in this game. Of course, like a moron I actually built it. I just wasn't thinking at the time and later was unable to build the crucial Ironworks. I think Ironworks would have shaved many turns off this game. )

Also, for this game, it would be interesting to see how much culture everyone accumulated in Lhasa by the finish. I reached 385,000. Of course, most folks would not be stupid enough to build the Hermitage like I did.

Spoiler :


Interesting game indeed except toward the end when the space race just becomes a grind over the last century and the map doesn't help much with performance. I've only played one OCC in a xOTM a while back and that one got bugged out before I could finish. It was nice to actually get through one of these.

Got Bud and sent a few missionaries out between builds. I probably should have been a little more aggressive with missionaries, but I at least converted my Asian friends and Cyrus fairly early. I settled my first engineer for the extra hammers and went ahead and built Stonehenge and Oracle. (I took Monarchy, which is questionable since I felt I would get the Mids and did - but at the time the other techs were pretty cheap and at least Monarchy would be good trade bait) Next I was lucky enough to pop a Prophet for the Mahabohdi. It was unbelievable how much gold I was generating in the game from this shrine. I founded Conf and Islam primarily just to have control of their spread. I waited some time to build those shrines and settled most of my early Great Prophets instead.

Qin - and it sounds like this is a common theme with others - was my primary and strongest ally. He helped me in many ways. Although I trade techs with just about everybody in the game - later on when AIs become more stingy he was still willing to trade key techs with me before Genetics. He also vassalized just about the whole world including a few civs who were becoming rather unfriendly with me like Russia. It was quite funny to deny all these requests once they become vassals - I just gave them the finger and went on my way. Catherine had a deep hatred for me but could do nothing about it.

There were a lot of wars in the game, especially mid to late game At one point Genghis was at war with almost everyone and had about 10 worst enemies, but friendly with me. I was never in a war the whole game or attacked Later Qin just went on a complete rampage. Literally declaring on someone, vassalizing them and any vassals they had, waiting a few turns and attacking some else. I believe he had 8 or 9 vassals by the end of the game and created Bizmark of France colony in Australia. In a strategic move to hopefully hamper the Space goals of Qin and a few of his vassals (especially Cathrine who was the biggest space threat), I bribed Qin late game into war with Monty. Monty was quite large and had America and the Incans as vassals. With that bribe, I sent just about every Civ still in existence into battle for a long time - my thinking that with Monty overseas it would drag things out quite a bit. Of course, I just sat back and meditated through the whole ordeal, ignoring any requests to join in the fun.

Catherine had two major space parts remaining in production when I launched my ship. I launched it with a couple of missing Casings.

Overall, I think Ironworks would have sped things up significantly. The game really drags toward the end, but it was a fun game for some time. Managing diplomacy between all the AIs is really the key to surviving this game. I gifted a load of gold in this game. Had more money than I needed anyway and never dropped research below 100%. There is a part of me that would have enjoyed being attacked at least once to see how my defenses held up on that hill.

Never popped a Merchant for Sushi which was still available at the end, so 22 was the cap on population. I did windmill one of the incense hills and could have done so for the other one but that would have put food at an odd number.


Question for the Wise: I put forts with roads on a couple of coastal tiles I eventually claimed to the south. Is their any benefit in doing this other and just having the forts there? I read that doing so in cultural borders helps facilitate coastal trade, but I'm not sure of the actual impact. Regardless, I did station some aircraft in the forts later for the heck of it.


rpccityov20000y.jpg




 
lymond said:
1971 AD Space

(Note: One NW not mentioned by Mad above was the Hermitage, which is also completely useless in this game. Of course, like a moron I actually built it. I just wasn't thinking at the time and later was unable to build the crucial Ironworks. I think Ironworks would have shaved many turns off this game. )

Also, for this game, it would be interesting to see how much culture everyone accumulated in Lhasa by the finish. I reached 385,000. Of course, most folks would not be stupid enough to build the Hermitage like I did.

Spoiler :


Interesting game indeed except toward the end when the space race just becomes a grind over the last century and the map doesn't help much with performance. I've only played one OCC in a xOTM a while back and that one got bugged out before I could finish. It was nice to actually get through one of these.

Got Bud and sent a few missionaries out between builds. I probably should have been a little more aggressive with missionaries, but I at least converted my Asian friends and Cyrus fairly early. I settled my first engineer for the extra hammers and went ahead and built Stonehenge and Oracle. (I took Monarchy, which is questionable since I felt I would get the Mids and did - but at the time the other techs were pretty cheap and at least Monarchy would be good trade bait) Next I was lucky enough to pop a Prophet for the Mahabohdi. It was unbelievable how much gold I was generating in the game from this shrine. I founded Conf and Islam primarily just to have control of their spread. I waited some time to build those shrines and settled most of my early Great Prophets instead.

Qin - and it sounds like this is a common theme with others - was my primary and strongest ally. He helped me in many ways. Although I trade techs with just about everybody in the game - later on when AIs become more stingy he was still willing to trade key techs with me before Genetics. He also vassalized just about the whole world including a few civs who were becoming rather unfriendly with me like Russia. It was quite funny to deny all these requests once they become vassals - I just gave them the finger and went on my way. Catherine had a deep hatred for me but could do nothing about it.

There were a lot of wars in the game, especially mid to late game At one point Genghis was at war with almost everyone and had about 10 worst enemies, but friendly with me. I was never in a war the whole game or attacked Later Qin just went on a complete rampage. Literally declaring on someone, vassalizing them and any vassals they had, waiting a few turns and attacking some else. I believe he had 8 or 9 vassals by the end of the game and created Bizmark of France colony in Australia. In a strategic move to hopefully hamper the Space goals of Qin and a few of his vassals (especially Cathrine who was the biggest space threat), I bribed Qin late game into war with Monty. Monty was quite large and had America and the Incans as vassals. With that bribe, I sent just about every Civ still in existence into battle for a long time - my thinking that with Monty overseas it would drag things out quite a bit. Of course, I just sat back and meditated through the whole ordeal, ignoring any requests to join in the fun.

Catherine had two major space parts remaining in production when I launched my ship. I launched it with a couple of missing Casings.

Overall, I think Ironworks would have sped things up significantly. The game really drags toward the end, but it was a fun game for some time. Managing diplomacy between all the AIs is really the key to surviving this game. I gifted a load of gold in this game. Had more money than I needed anyway and never dropped research below 100%. There is a part of me that would have enjoyed being attacked at least once to see how my defenses held up on that hill.

Never popped a Merchant for Sushi which was still available at the end, so 22 was the cap on population. I did windmill one of the incense hills and could have done so for the other one but that would have put food at an odd number.


Question for the Wise: I put forts with roads on a couple of coastal tiles I eventually claimed to the south. Is their any benefit in doing this other and just having the forts there? I read that doing so in cultural borders helps facilitate coastal trade, but I'm not sure of the actual impact. Regardless, I did station some aircraft in the forts later for the heck of it.


rpccityov20000y.jpg




Click to expand...

Spoiler :
I got my GM from the free one you get for first to economics or whatever its called:). Actully I got the free Great artist from music free GS from pyhsic aswell and I think the free spy from communism. Only thing I missed was the GE from fusion france beelined it extremlly early in my game but no one else ever got it strange.

Wonder why all had so peacefull games except me where the world was at war constantly I got declared on 3-4 times aswell.
 
The Dalai Lama: Diplomacy!

Many Tibetans were scared of the agressive warlord from the northern steepes and teh Holy One would simply ignore him. "My people, we are all the same and treat all as equals. The Mongolian horse rider has much to offer us, and vice versa. Open your hearts and minds!"

So many trades were made with Genghis, the only leader with the knowledge of alphabet

DLC0000.jpg


DLC0001.jpg


Meanwhile several Buddhist missionaries were built in Lhasa, increasing the speed of it's spread. However, this ended up being unnecesary as Buddhism self spread to India and China. Still, more Buddhist cities help.

The Arab leader arrives at Lhasa

DLC0002.jpg


A very religious man who right now has no true faith his people follow.

Meanwhile the Great Khan has even mor eto offer Tibet

DLC0003.jpg


DLC0004.jpg


Leading to

DLC0005.jpg


Seams only one trade left to make at the moment

DLC0006.jpg


Ah, now Lhasa can navigate along it's river and trade more with the outside world!

The Dalai Lama instructs the Tibetan to research Aesthetics next, follwoed by literature. Once he got these techs he did not trade them, using that time to construct the mighty wonder associated with them!

For the early part Lhasa built a library, and a few monestaries (randon events ruined the Buddhist monestary).

Persia managed to finally find the hidden Kingdom

DLC0007.jpg


And as always, Dalai Lama opened up borders.

Diplomatic problems did start with this demand

DLC0008.jpg


The dalai Lama gently chastised the Indian leader, and instructed his people to send a missionary right away the genghis and bring Mongolia into the Buddhist brotherhood.

DLC0011.jpg


Very soon, another Great Prophet was born, brother St. Patrick

DLC0009.jpg


He was greatly warmly and the dalai Lama welcomed all help in asissting the Tibetan people.

The Russians from very far away came calling, and they were greatly well, although the Russian Lady was disappointed at the Dalai Lama's platonic greating.

We finally got arround to making some more significant trades

DLC0012.jpg


More important to remove the southern jungles than getting iron.

Back to the tech situation

DLC0013.jpg


DLC0014.jpg


Gewt's rid of another prerequisite for Literature.

Meanwhile the next leader we met.

DLC0015.jpg


The ever happy Hatty!

Ummm, the Tibetan people chant at the next wonder built

DLC0016.jpg


Not very useful except for the GP points, but that's what we are all about people!

Now more to quiet the fears of the Tibetan people than his own, the Dala Lama builds an archer and dog soldier to defend the forrested pass into Tibet. He then says to start bulding the Great Library, while researching Math.

The Great Prophet RamaKrishna is born and again settled in Lhasa

DLC0018.jpg


With access to food along the Lhasan river we can grow very quickly now.

We next met the Romans, who quickly demanded rice in tribute. Apparently we culture stole one of Asokas so the Dalai Lama politely agrees.

A pair of very valuable trades for us

DLC0020.jpg


DLC0021.jpg


Followed by

DLC0022.jpg


Now that helps to have a free pair of scientists under representation!

Soon after Heron was born and settled, then Asoka offered us a great trade

DLC0024.jpg


Having all that extra gold to balance any trade is just amazing!

To Be Continued.....
 
The Russians from very far away came calling, and they were greatly well, although the Russian Lady was disappointed at the Dalai Lama's platonic greating.
Click to expand...
:lol::lol::lol:
 
The dalai Lama: Diplomacy!

Seeing a chance to negotiate with other leaders

DLC0025.jpg


Which opens up alot of resources for our worker. To bad we only have one, but the dalai Lama prefers to spend all hammers on what is needed.

After Math, the Tibetans worked on the knowledge of wood and animal hides to create

DLC0026.jpg


Vincient Van Gough is born in Lhasa from being first to Music, and he is settled!

Lhasa begins to research Civil Service next, meanwhile

DLC0028.jpg


With a 105% defensive bonus to Lhasa and the Statue of Zues, plus our isolated location the Dalain Lama hopes that this is enough to protect the Tibetans from the horrors of war.

A very valuable Great Person is born next, Louis Pastuer

DLC0029.jpg


He build the Pastuer Academy of Sciences in Lhasa, bolstering the beaker output from the city by an incredible amount!

More trades are made

DLC0030.jpg


And after civil service we adjust civics again

DLC0031.jpg


And look for the fastest time to trade is away to Qin! However, an earlier option for it arrives

DLC0032.jpg


Yes, a forge will be very valuable here!

Now the Dalai Lama did meet one leader that no matter how courteous he spoke, his heart could not be softened.

DLC0033.jpg


The dalai Lama just shrugged and muttered under his breath "Some people are just jerks!"

The last wonder of this segment was completed

DLC0034.jpg


And the Dalai Lama is torn between running Organized religion or Pascifism! He retreat to his chambers to meditate on the subject.

Meanwhile decisions need to be made on what to build next.

DLC0035.jpg


I think a forge is a no brainer, followed by the Sisten Chapel.

Techs

DLC0036.jpg


We still have an edge in Aesthetics but no one really has anything to offer right now for it. Ourselves, we started researching Paper to open up the University of Sakore and Education.

The city of Lhasa

DLC0037.jpg


we need a few of the happy resources hooked up to further expand, and perhaps try and trade for some gold for the forge. Before I start the Sisten, do we need more military????

And finally

DLC0038.jpg


Buddhism is self spreading very well, but certainly we can help further (Before Qin changes to Confuscian as Bejing has that only).

After Paper I think we go Education, Philosophy, Liberalism. Machinery is a good detour for windmills, but they are not that urgent right now and can wait until the bonus from replaceable parts.
 
All I had as military until around 1700 was one warrior :p your cultural boarders are so big it will take the enemy 6-7 turns atleast to even get close to the mountain passage and before they get there you could build 7 defensive units if needed that is. The AI also dosnt seem like they want to attack that passage despite 3-4 wars the AI never sent any soldiers to attack the army I had at the mountain passage.
 
You're pulling a 'Neal' and ignoring scouting! Just because you know what is out there, it doesn't mean you get the benefits ( trade, spread relig) until you get out there and see the world!
 
LuCiver said:
You're pulling a 'Neal' and ignoring scouting! Just because you know what is out there, it doesn't mean you get the benefits ( trade, spread relig) until you get out there and see the world!
Click to expand...

8 turns from papper and world maps:)
 
Totally wouldn't worry about military - make sure there's a fort at that pass and you can always whip a defensive unit or two (with CR) to protect you. A couple units in that pass will hold the enemy back.

Curious to see where your tech rate will be at around 1000 AD - will help me gauge my progress so far and whether or not I'm on track.

TMIT/Orzio - do you remember how many beakers you were pulling in at that point?
 
JammerUno said:
Sistine won't do any good, you'll dominate ever tile you get culture on without it just as well.

Forge, monastary, temple, aquaduct, market. Keep on growing!
Click to expand...

Sistine is an extremlly good wonder here. Its not that we can use it its the fact that if we build it the AI cant with makes it that much harder for them to win a cultural vicotry. Since we cant stop there cultural victory the only way to prevent it is to make it as slow and painfull for them as possible.
 
You're pulling a 'Neal' and ignoring scouting! Just because you know what is out there, it doesn't mean you get the benefits ( trade, spread relig) until you get out there and see the world!
Click to expand...

Someone needs a lesson in how trade networks function :lol:. You should probably check out the strategy article on it.

TMIT/Orzio - do you remember how many beakers you were pulling in at that point?
Click to expand...

I don't remember exactly. Probably about 200-300 ish? It matters less than you'd think.

Sistine is an extremlly good wonder here. Its not that we can use it its the fact that if we build it the AI cant with makes it that much harder for them to win a cultural vicotry. Since we cant stop there cultural victory the only way to prevent it is to make it as slow and painfull for them as possible.
Click to expand...

Correct. Staying with the RPC rules the only option to avoid losing to culture is to build/deny things that let the AI win it. Like sistine.
 
TheMeInTeam said:
I don't remember exactly. Probably about 200-300 ish? It matters less than you'd think.
Click to expand...

I guess you're right about that - tech rate is starting to creep up, and the AI seems to still be moving pretty slow, as is my PC with this game. Hopefully I'll get through this tonight, but in the meantime, THAT is a holy city:

Spoiler :


Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg


Gotta love the buddhist block - Asia and Europe all buddhist, and it's even spreading to Africa too. All that with me building only 5-6 missionaries!



Another vote for sistine, by the way - it definitely keeps AI culture down.
 
michmbk said:
I guess you're right about that - tech rate is starting to creep up, and the AI seems to still be moving pretty slow, as is my PC with this game. Hopefully I'll get through this tonight, but in the meantime, THAT is a holy city:

Spoiler :


Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg


Gotta love the buddhist block - Asia and Europe all buddhist, and it's even spreading to Africa too. All that with me building only 5-6 missionaries!



Another vote for sistine, by the way - it definitely keeps AI culture down.
Click to expand...

Why do you have 2 GP just sitting there doing nothing not like you need golden ages :P
 
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