Ugh, that is one tight spot you find yourself in. Good thing you have a few nice cities, your research rate should pick up soon. From here on getting IW and alpha will be a priority I think, and getting a religion of course. Very much interested to see how things will fare from here since there may be two religious blocks in the future with you being in the middle of them. Whichever side you will join, it may get very ugly.
Btw, what are those shadows you get under your techs in the tree?
Looks like easy diplo atleast. One faith, HR/Bureaucracy and you have everyone at friendly. You never seem to get any early aggression towards you anyways!
Yea it's easy diplo once I get there, but I could lose anytime before that!
Read the Pacal game if you want to see early aggression Courtesy of Ragnar. But yea, there are fewer wars on Normal speed for sure.
Looks like a tough start to get all that land quick enough, more food in the capital would have been nice. Saying that I do like plains cow as a resource, 6H for workers and settlers.
I have a question though - why wasn't Utica settled 1SE for more green land and some hills? It totally lacks production there. Is it so borders aren't clashing with Hammurabi?
I like plain cows to replace a hill... not for anything else. Give me grassland cows anytime over plains!
Utica was settled there to improve the cow right away (didn't have Agriculture) and try to secure the green riverside land. It sucks a bit production-wise but it'd suck a lot move if it lost its green tiles.
Ugh, that is one tight spot you find yourself in. Good thing you have a few nice cities, your research rate should pick up soon. From here on getting IW and alpha will be a priority I think, and getting a religion of course. Very much interested to see how things will fare from here since there may be two religious blocks in the future with you being in the middle of them. Whichever side you will join, it may get very ugly.
Btw, what are those shadows you get under your techs in the tree?
Love this series, KUTGW! (and I always mentally read the title as 'Doctor kossin' as well, which might be apt given that you're a deity player...)
Anyways, this is the sort of start that would cause me enormous problems on Immortal, mainly with trying to get big enough quick enough without going broke. The city site to the south is peachy though, and might save your economy...looking forward to seeing how this one turns out.
At this point I wasn't too confident on being able to grab the northern sites, the economy was already crashing and Carthage needed to grow and stop stagnating on settlers. Stay tuned...
Love this series, KUTGW! (and I always mentally read the title as 'Doctor kossin' as well, which might be apt given that you're a deity player...)
Anyways, this is the sort of start that would cause me enormous problems on Immortal, mainly with trying to get big enough quick enough without going broke. The city site to the south is peachy though, and might save your economy...looking forward to seeing how this one turns out.
The Dr acronym was chosen partly for that reason! I wanted something catchy and easy to use, like 'ALC'...
Crashing the economy on Immortal isn't so bad as the AIs are much slower to the "good" techs. I remember a TMIT livestream game where he got Pottery in 1000AD after crashing realllllllly hard (Skirmisher rush lol) and wound up winning the game.
Cottages will have to save the economy more than the southern site however, it will still be a good 20 turns before it's useful to help in that area. I really need the Classical techs now before the AIs move on beyond and leave me in the dust.
~~~
Next round coming up in a while, time for dinner here... played Civ too long
Despite Carthage being smallish, I selected another settler at size 4 and also started to build one in Utica while waiting on Writing for Libraries. I cottaged heavily to get myself out of this tech hole and back into the trading circle.
Despite my hurry on settlers, Hammurabi beat me to the banana site and also had another settler on his way which you can see 3W of my own.
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Banana city was settled this turn... there was no way I could get there first.
Since I can't get both spots, I decided to get the closer and dual-food spot of cow+rice. Hammy would get the Fish site before my other settler was ready. In any case, I still had a spot to the south with Furs+Fish as well as needing to gift a city to Qin.
In 625BC HC declared war on Hammurabi. It was a very short preparation (5 turns earlier there was no red fist if you look on previous screenshot) so not an all-out war.
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Here you can see the fantastic city I gave to Qin
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A bit worrisome however is his number of cities. 11+1 ! I sent a workboat around to see what was up and it seems he has a huge peninsula to himself! More bad news for me...
It's 150BC when I finally get my hands on Aesthetics. Bad news is HC already has it, and also Hammurabi =\
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I turn off research waiting for my GS to build an Academy in a few turns. Here's the not-so-great tech situation at the end of the BCs.
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Taoism was just discovered in a distant land and it's not one of the 3 here that got it.
I go for Drama next as nobody has it but what do you know, the turn I get it, so do Hammurabi and HC! This is cruel...
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So where does that leave me?
Demographics
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Starting to pick up. What I really need now is to get a monopoly tech on this continent and catch up. So far it failed miserably twice because my REX in the beginning was costly.
Tech trade screen is still ugly.
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Resources screen is better however...
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Here are relations. I should be fine for the moment with Qin Pleased and Hammurabi angry at HC (means no OB, no DoW from HC)... if only Confucianism would spread now.
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Techs I can/need to get.
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Top 5 cities and Wonders gone so far. Amazingly, The Oracle went first... that's a BFC marble right there.
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Finally a look at the eastern part of the continent, with a focus on Qin's massive land...
NOT RESIZED!
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So what went wrong so far?
-REX to avoid box in made economy crash before having Pottery/Writing
-This resulted in being a few turns late to trade chips, pushing me further back
-bad luck with RNG (spread)
-massive land available to Qin (at least 16, possibly more than 17 cities). Hammy isn't small either and his land looks very good
I'm not sure BW this early was necessary once again, my settlers did have some time to sit around when they arrived on location. TW>Pottery was probably a better choice and then BW.
I need to stop wanting to get early commerce from the Capital when it's covered in forests!
What are my chances at winning from here?
Still pretty good, I can probably grab Philosophy from a bulb before this landmass gets it and use it for trading myself up. Culture is always a possibility.
Most likely a Drafting war with cannons will allow me to assimilate someone(Hammy/HC) or part of someone (Qin) to give me a strong position.
What are the obstacles to victory?
-Confu lovefest meaning fast trades.
-Qin's size
-Tech speed on other continent seems fast. Possible culture attempts on that side.
-a DoW is still very possible here. I'd be dead in seconds.
How will it turn out?... come by tomorrow to see the next round!
Tough position, I played along a bit from the previous save out of curiosity and despite cottaging furiously hamm/HC got to aesthetics too fast for me too. I then gave up of course since deity blows my mind.
The AI all seem to have a really good space of land, be interesting to see if you can pull out of this rather deep tech hole fast enough. I hate it when a group of nearby AI get a religious hug-fest going, their techrates always steam ahead way too fast.
Ouch, I think Qin will hit 20 cities with that peninsula. As long as he stays in Bureau, you'll be fine, but I wouldn't trust him in the long run unless you can pick up some other diplo modifiers (since he may go FS eventually).
I'm a bit surprised you haven't picked up Confucianism yet (bad rolls as you mention). A one religion culture run will be tough. Maybe some sort of diplo run may be better, especially if you can gobble up Hammy + HC?
Tough position, I played along a bit from the previous save out of curiosity and despite cottaging furiously hamm/HC got to aesthetics too fast for me too. I then gave up of course since deity blows my mind.
The AI all seem to have a really good space of land, be interesting to see if you can pull out of this rather deep tech hole fast enough. I hate it when a group of nearby AI get a religious hug-fest going, their techrates always steam ahead way too fast.
I really didn't fare so well this opening, it's something I have to work on... firing up offline games here and there to practice the first 100 turns. Of course RNG and barbs differ a lot from games to games but it should be possible to keep up with the AI with normal teching+trades and surpass them with good bulb planing.
It's hard to see now but the techrate is cranking up slowly, I should hit 300ish bpt in 20~30 turns but that still leaves me behind quite a bit unfortunately.
Ouch, I think Qin will hit 20 cities with that peninsula. As long as he stays in Bureau, you'll be fine, but I wouldn't trust him in the long run unless you can pick up some other diplo modifiers (since he may go FS eventually).
I'm a bit surprised you haven't picked up Confucianism yet (bad rolls as you mention). A one religion culture run will be tough. Maybe some sort of diplo run may be better, especially if you can gobble up Hammy + HC?
Well at least when he's expanding he's not teching outrageously fast, although having Pyramids does help him a lot... the good news is a lot of his cities are stuck in the tundra and won't contribute that much. Also, if he's slow to Rifling I could do a lot of damage to him.
The other option as you pointed out is Hammy+small HC. Of course Diplomatic could work with 3 Friendly neighbors but I doubt it since Qin will likely be one of the 2 candidates. Culture with 1 (well 0 hehe) will be a pain indeed. Space is just about impossible given Qin's size.
Ugh, this is what the few diety games I've played turn out like. I get maybe 1/3rd of the cities of the leading civ and get beaten to the trade chips, leaving me in the dust with no religion spread. I'll be eagerly watching you pull out of this one Kossin, I have full faith!
Well, technically it's past midnight here so it counts as tomorrow...
Needless to say, the game is very interesting to me and I played ahead.
Music was discovered first on the other continent so I thought it would be a good trade chip. Yea, you guessed correctly, HC and Hammy both got it the turn I did!
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At least Qin is being a good buddy...
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I revolted to Bureaucracy+Caste to produce some Great Persons.
It's 475AD when Confucianism FINALLY spreads to me... and from missionaries no less. You can also see I got an Islam spread in a few cities, which basically was just founded.
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In 540AD, I get the message that someone on the other continent got Liberalism. Great... it was to be expected with no wars going on over there. Anyway, it means I can trade Paper that I just researched.
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As well as Philosophy.
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This isn't all of HC's gold, which he was willing to give me the previous turn.
I can't remember the last time I got Monarchy this late...
Since Liberalism is gone, bulbing Education is a bit counter-productive. I trigger a Golden Age instead, revolt to Pacifism and generate a Great Merchant and another Great Scientist. Switch back to Slavery+OR once only 1 turn is left.
Spoiler:
Education is traded to Hammurabi.
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And the Great Merchant completes a trade mission.
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Printing Press proves to be a good trade chip, netting me a few techs.
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I stopped at 1000AD, as the next segment will be a military buildup while getting the last required techs. The Globe Theatre will be going up in Kerkouane (double fish+sheep, etc) and it can draft almost non-stop.
Diplo looks pretty good. I got lucky to avoid a DoW before the stupid religion spread I guess.
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A look at the other people out there... Mansa, Isabella and Justinian. 3 spirituals that are probably in a lovefest (Theology).
NOT RESIZED
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Finally, the tech situation. I'm still behind a bit but I still have Nationalism to trade to Qin. I'm heading to Steel and will pre-build Trebuchets, Maces, Muskets and draft Muskets>Rifles.
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Given that Qin is huge (17 cities), it seems like a crazy idea to attack him.
However, his size is also slowing him down for now, as you can see from the tech trades this round, he's always the last and I can trade with him. After Nationalism I will try to exclude him from trades and with Cannons I should be able to take a good chunk out of him before his newer cities start contributing too much. He'll be a monster left untouched...
So either this works and I look like a genius or it fails horribly and I lose the game... or I cower and attack Hammy/HC
I would pursue the gambit and try Qin. HC and Hammy can be taken later if you are successful, but you need to take Qin down or risk falling into obscurity. I've followed you enough to know you can and don't need to waste any time spelling out the details.
Qin will indeed be a monster soon enough if left unchecked. If you manage to take him out I think you may get away with a victory if you play your cards right. Not attacking Qin would mean he will be a serious threat for the win here, and later he will have a massive army with the possibility to get an ever bigger one as is if it was nothing. Now is the window of opportunity for an attack.
Since you allready know who the other AI are, I guess this is not spoiling anything for you.
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You got a few good sites up I could never reach. You also got a religion. In my game I have no religion by 1000AD And since I never gifted anything to Qin, I guess I'm kinda lucky to not get DOWed as well. Also I'm kinda jumping back and forth on control of the 2 gold.
I'm doing pretty good on tech, and have circumnavigated (through maptrading). Building up to a cannonwar, but my diplo is pretty mismanaged... I guess going after Qin is the logical thing to do, but once I do (and am out of Buro), I'm thinking Ham and Qin both won't like me, and I'm sandwiched.
Can trade with Izzy to get what I'm missing in techs.
So.. I like my position, but it's messy.
You are farther behind, but since you actually know how to play, I'm guessing you'll come out ahead
Will be interesting to see your warprep and warefforts!
kossin, could you also please post a few screenshots of your F1 screen? I'd find it useful for learning to see what you're actually building in all your cities during the different intervals.
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Guess that just shows how brutal the AI is on Immortal, you're a masochist 
). Anyway good luck with it looking forward to seeing how you do.
Courtesy of Ragnar. But yea, there are fewer wars on Normal speed for sure.
