SGOTM 11 - Fifth Element

unclethrill · May 4, 2010

Dhoomstriker said:
No, that doesn't make me feel better at all. You've gotten the facts, you've had your chance to weigh the sides, and you've made your decision. It should count.

Unclethrill is right, I am being harsh on you guys and I apologize. I am going through a grief stage and you guys are helping me to get through the second stage of grief, the Anger stage, which comes after the Denial stage. So, thank you for allowing me to take my anger out on you guys.

Thanks for your statement. Honestly, I completely forgot about the situation your are facing right now and I apologize for that. I lost my father about 15 years ago but I had the luxury ( not sure if that is the best way to describe slow death from cancer) to come to terms with what was going to happen for months before it happened.

Anyway, I think we have a good team and as we move forward we will gel better. Hopefully before we have to look forward to the next SGOTM!

Dhoomstriker · May 4, 2010

unclethrill said:
I have run tests but since we have no real information on what is east I can only make so many concrete idea.

To be honest, the fact that you've run some test games makes me feel infinitely better about your turnset.

By finishing the warrior first we trade the 8-14 H/F/C for 4 spaces east exploration.

That's fair. There's a reason behind the decision and it's been qualified with a clear plan that was supported by test games.

I'm fine with you proceeding with Warrior 2 -> Worker 1 under these conditions.

Mitchum · May 4, 2010

Dhoomstriker said:
...you guys are helping me to get through the second stage of grief, the Anger stage, which comes after the Denial stage. So, thank you for allowing me to take my anger out on you guys.

We all have bad days (except my wife, who has all bad days

) or worse, bad events, that change the course of our lives and affect the things we do and say. Thanks for acknowledging the situation.

Now if we could just remove your CAPS LOCK key...

unclethrill · May 4, 2010

Mitchum said:
Things get said in the heat of battle. I've done it many times. I hope that we can put this behind us and play as an effective team going forward.

Hear Hear!! (spelled it right this time). :lol:

BLubmuz · May 4, 2010

Mitchum said:
I think this is the rub of the whole issue. Everyone expresses himself differently. When you're typing your thoughts, a lot is left to interpretation by the reader. Plus, there can be cultural issues or language barriers that cause heartburn.

I think this applies to me only. I can't be acid, sarcastic and effective like i could be in my mother language.
You all are English native, so those barriers are for me only.

You must add that i usually speak and write an high-level language and often i can't find the best terms and i need some 2nd choice word or paragraph to express myself.

And that i make a lot of typos and i need to continously go back to fix them.

Mitchum · May 4, 2010

unclethrill said:
Now with that said, since BLubmuz is willing to change his vote to abstain and Tata is MIA currently, that leaves 2 for warrior and 2 for worker and as I said I would change to worker if anyone change their vote. So I change my vote to worker since we get so little out of the warrior first.

Dhoomstriker said:
I'm fine with you proceeding with Warrior 2 -> Worker 1 under these conditions.

Both sides appear to have given in and we're right back where we started. :crazyeye:

Unclethrill, can you please post your planned PPP again. Not to vote on it (I don't want BLubmuz to crawl through the ether and strangle me) but to give everyone an indication of what you plan to do.

Mitchum · May 4, 2010

BLubmuz said:
I think this applies to me only. I can't be acid, sarcastic and effective like i could be in my mother language.

Don't sell yourself short. You can be extremely acid, sarcastic and effective in English!!

BTW, my language barrier comment was not directed at you. I though we had other team members who's native tongue is not English.

BLubmuz · May 4, 2010

Mitchum said:
Don't sell yourself short. You can be extremely acid, sarcastic and effective in English!!

BTW, my language barrier comment was not directed at you. I though we had other team members who's native tongue is not English.

np, but surely i can't express myself with the same ease i have in Italian.

Don't be duped by the location of Unclethrill, he's American if you forget this.

Havr is in Israel and i know those guys speak English far better than others. But true, i'm not alone.

unclethrill · May 4, 2010

My wife is an college English professor!

unclethrill · May 4, 2010

T18 Work two corns till grow, Set Espionage to 1 to Zara,
T20 Delhi grows to 3, Start Worker, Work 2 H + 1 food.
T30 Get Agri and Start Masonry
T34 Borders should expand to include Silver.
T35 Finish Worker. Start Corn Farming to the North, Finish TS so that we can decide what to build next.

Avoid dying with warrior; try not to kill lions either

Dhoomstriker · May 4, 2010

unclethrill said:
Hear Hear!! (spelled it right this time).

Oh, that's what you were talking about in terms of correcting others. I was trying to be funny there (but apparently the humour was lost in the message). I actually have NO IDEA what the correct spelling is supposed to be in that case. I assumed that you were using the correct form and thus would interpret my mis-spelling as an intentional attempt at bringing humour back into the thread.

Clearly, my attempt backfired. :crazyeye:

Anyway, I admit that while my test game offers us a good CHANCE to scout the BLUE SQUARES and get to the west in time, I will also admit the failing results of that test:
1. If the ORANGE SQUARES are not all Coast + Ocean, we won't see if there is a Seafood Resource there.
2. If the BLUE SQUARES are mostly land, then I've only allowed for 2 turns of movement of extra exploration, while it could take as many as 3 turns of movement.
3. We were one square away from being in the ideal place for Fog Buster 2 on Turn 50. That meant that Fog Buster 1 was out of place, to help cover the area that Fog Buster 2 should be covering.
4. If there is an animal that needs to be dodged, I allowed no turns to do so.

What I was TRYING to do was what several of you asked me to do:
stop arguing for both sides!

But, I am GOOD at arguing for both sides! I LIKE to argue for both sides. I'd rather that everyone have complete information that is as accurate as possible, rather than "politically-oriented" information that hides or ignores key facts just to push a point.

So, I think I will tend to move back to arguing for both sides, so that the facts are clear and better-informed decisions can be made.

In light of my test game, I will admit that going for Worker 1 -> Warrior 2 is VERY RISKY, so I will officially change my vote to Warrior 2 -> Worker 1. The UP player understands the sacrifice and thinks that it is worth it, and his Warrior 2 movement plan really truly supports the goals that the team seems to care about the most (fully explore the Silver City area and reduce Barb invasion from the west), so let's let him have that extra Warrior 2 movement and see what he can do with it! Make us proud, UT!

unclethrill · May 4, 2010

Dhoomstriker said:
Oh, that's what you were talking about in terms of correcting others. I was trying to be funny there (but apparently the humour was lost in the message). I actually have NO IDEA what the correct spelling is supposed to be in that case. I assumed that you were using the correct form and thus would interpret my mis-spelling as an intentional attempt at bringing humour back into the thread.

Clearly, my attempt backfired.

Anyway, I admit that while my test game offers us a good CHANCE to scout the BLUE SQUARES and get to the west in time, I will also admit the failing results of that test:
1. If the ORANGE SQUARES are not all Coast + Ocean, we won't see if there is a Seafood Resource there.
2. If the BLUE SQUARES are mostly land, then I've only allowed for 2 turns of movement of extra exploration, while it could take as many as 3 turns of movement.
3. We were one square away from being in the ideal place for Fog Buster 2 on Turn 50. That meant that Fog Buster 1 was out of place, to help cover the area that Fog Buster 2 should be covering.
4. If there is an animal that needs to be dodged, I allowed no turns to do so.

What I was TRYING to do was what several of you asked me to do:
stop arguing for both sides!

But, I am GOOD at arguing for both sides! I LIKE to argue for both sides. I'd rather that everyone have complete information that is as accurate as possible, rather than "politically-oriented" information that hides or ignores key facts just to push a point.

So, I think I will tend to move back to arguing for both sides, so that the facts are clear and better-informed decisions can be made.

In light of my test game, I will admit that going for Worker 1 -> Warrior 2 is VERY RISKY, so I will officially change my vote to Warrior 2 -> Worker 1. The UP player understands the sacrifice and thinks that it is worth it, and his Warrior 2 movement plan really truly supports the goals that the team seems to care about the most (fully explore the Silver City area and reduce Barb invasion from the west), so let's let him have that extra Warrior 2 movement and see what he can do with it! Make us proud, UT!

Okay. Officially Going for it. Finishing warrior first!

BLubmuz · May 4, 2010

unclethrill said:
My wife is an college English professor!

no comment

unclethrill said:
T18 Work two corns till grow, Set Espionage to 1 to Zara,
T20 Delhi grows to 3, Start Worker, Work 2 H + 1 food.
T30 Get Agri and Start Masonry
T34 Borders should expand to include Silver.
T35 Finish Worker. Start Corn Farming to the North, Finish TS so that we can decide what to build next.

Avoid dying with warrior; try not to kill lions either

At this point there's no need to not play your 20 full turns.
t35 finish worker (...)
t36 finish warrior
masonry needs some 10 or more turns IIRC, play until t38 and start sending the warrior W.

BLubmuz · May 4, 2010

would you please post a bit slower?
Are we now back to warrior first? In that case we have time to fully unfog the SE, right?

If you change mind again, my 2 neurons will declare strike again :eek:

.

We're decided for the settler at size 3 right? Start it, dammit!

Mitchum · May 4, 2010

BLubmuz said:
no comment

At this point there's no need to not play your 20 full turns.
t35 finish worker (...)
t36 finish warrior
masonry needs some 10 or more turns IIRC, play until t38 and start sending the warrior W.

Wait, are we clear on what to build after worker 1 / warrior 2? I propose settler 2 next, but I've heard discussion of warrior 3... I think it prudent to stop once both worker 1 and warrior 2 are complete unless we want to delay this turn set further...

Dhoomstriker · May 4, 2010

BLubmuz said:
would you please post a bit slower?
Are we now back to warrior first? In that case we have time to fully unfog the SE, right?

That's my understanding of what UT said.

Warrior 2 starts by unfogging the ORANGE SQUARES to the SE, then unfogging BLUE SQUARES to the south, then heading west. He seemed to agree that going east for exploration would not gain us much useful info, while it would certainly risk the chance that we'd have no chance to get Warrior 2 into Fog Buster 2's placement if there is an animal in the way.

If that understanding is not correct, then he should speak up so that we can vote (yes, another vote) on whether to include any eastward exploration or not.

Dhoomstriker · May 4, 2010

Mitchum said:
Wait, are we clear on what to build after worker 1 / warrior 2? I propose settler 2 next, but I've heard discussion of warrior 3... I think it prudent to stop once both worker 1 and warrior 2 are complete unless we want to delay this turn set further...

It really should be Settler 2, according to most of our test games, but if BLubz is still wanting to possibly build Warrior 3, then we need to stop the turnset at that point. If he's fine to proceed with Settler 2, then that's what the rest of the team's test games had us doing, so it's what we appeared to be in agreement about, with BLubmuz being the only one to express disaproval with this plan.

If BLubmuz still disagrees with going for Settler 2 next, though, then it's a discussion point which needs to officially be voted upon. I think that the analysis is in place for that vote, but more analysis could be done if needed.

The fact is that even if we lose Warrior 1, building Warrior 3 next won't really help us in fixing our fog-busting line, becuase it takes so long to build and building it instead of Settler 2 seriously messed up our empire's production ability. We'd get more Warriors in a similar timeframe by building City 2 instead of delaying City 2 further. But, if someone wants to see more numbers, then I think it's fair to stop the turnset before making the decision on Settler 2/Warrior 3.

BLubmuz · May 4, 2010

Dhoomstriker said:
That's my understanding of what UT said.

Warrior 2 starts by unfogging the ORANGE SQUARES to the SE, then unfogging BLUE SQUARES to the south, then heading west. He seemed to agree that going east for exploration would not gain us much useful info, while it would certainly risk the chance that we'd have no chance to get Warrior 2 into Fog Buster 2's placement if there is an animal in the way.

If that understanding is not correct, then he should speak up so that we can vote (yes, another vote) on whether to include any eastward exploration or not.

I agree on theabove.
then, If we all agree on settler 2 after warrior/worker, we can start it and let UT play 'til t.38.

I've built warrior 3 in my tests, but i never wrote a word about it for the real game.

Mitchum · May 4, 2010

Dhoomstriker said:
If that understanding is not correct, then he should speak up so that we can vote (yes, another vote) on whether to include any eastward exploration or not.

IIRC, Irgy was the one pushing for exploration east with BLubmuz giving an 8 tile leash. Having not heard from him leads me to believe he's either frustrated or busy with RL.

I have not really heard any arguments explaining what we intend to do with the eastward exploration info other than to satisy our curiosity, which really adds no value to the game.

I would hate to delay this yet again...

Mitchum · May 4, 2010

BLubmuz said:
I agree on theabove.
then, If we all agree on settler 2 after warrior/worker, we can start it and let UT play 'til t.38.

Settler 2 immediately after warrior 2/worker 1 would be my vote and this is what I did in all of my test games. If that is agreed by all, then I don't see an issue with UT playing his full 20 turns (or 22 turns to get us back to even turn numbers).

However, I don't recall seeing havr or Irgy weigh in on what to build after warrior 2/worker 1 since it originally fell outside of UT's turnset. Is it fair to throw it in at the 11th hour?

SGOTM 11 - Fifth Element

Why am I up right now?

Girlie Builder

Deity

Why am I up right now?

HoF Quattromaster

Deity

Deity

HoF Quattromaster

Why am I up right now?

Why am I up right now?

Girlie Builder

Why am I up right now?

HoF Quattromaster

HoF Quattromaster

Deity

Girlie Builder

Girlie Builder

HoF Quattromaster

Deity

Deity

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