Turn Discussion Thread

Library is finished a few turns before we grow to size 5 so there is no concern there.

I ran through the current plan in a test game that game be found here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9181078

But here are the main notes:
- Writing completes on turn 37
- Settler finishes on turn 35
- City 2 on turn 38 (1 earlier than expected due to road)
- Library finished on turn 40 (1 earlier than expected due to warrior overflow suggestion from Irgy above)

EDIT: Keep discussion on the plan in here and try to keep that other thread as a direct reference thread.

From the micro thread:

champinoman said:

Here are 2 save files for everyones use.

The first is an exact replica of our current game at turn 28.

And the 2nd is a run through of the micro listed above to turn 40. Please note that the run through has:
- Exploratory WB sitting idle in City since it was built.
- Worker (Lord Parkin) sitting idle after doing nothing in turn 39.

I just wanted to list those 2 things so people don't use it as a base to go off. Everything else is accurate though.

Click to expand...

WRT the worker: We probably want him to mine the gold in the 2nd city (Canopus) ASAP. Having said that, perhaps he should first move to 1W to the gold mine and build the road to connect it to Sirius, since he is already adjacent to that tile? The extra would let us send the warrior with the 2nd settler we built to explore the neighboring island (or perhaps on his own if we build a galley first).

I am still in favor of Sailing after Writing. Not only can we build a galley, it will instantly connect Sirius and Canopus without a road.

Irgy said:

Current questions:
* Are we all agreed on Sailing after Writing?
* Are we agreed on pfh and workboat for Canopus (and the name for that matter)?
* I've suggested Lord Parkin moves to the gold near city 'C' from turn 39, but this isn't agreed yet.

Click to expand...

Sailing seems like a good tech that not only allows us that critical Galley but also gives us a connection between our 2 cities so we can delay the road.

Seems like a good plan for the city. The quicker we can get the fish worked the better for whipping. Which reminds me, we didn't include revolt on the plan.

If Lord Parkin moves away from Sirius then we have to waste turns to get him back to hook up the gold before Sirius hits pop6 which isn't far away. I'd suggest getting the road built on the hill before heading towards Canopus(?)

lol Trystero, you beat me this time.

My only worry is that if we get Sirius to pop6 then that warrior can't head off with the settler due to happiness cap. I think the original Warrior needs to be on fogbusting duty until the 2nd cities 2nd border pop.

champinoman said:

Seems like a good plan for the city. The quicker we can get the fish worked the better for whipping. Which reminds me, we didn't include revolt on the plan.

Click to expand...

If we revolt to Slavery on turn 36, it delays finishing the Warrior and Writing by one turn, but doesn't screw the timing up.

Yeah, but it doesn't look as nice

I played around with some hypotheticals, based on champinoman's micro (here), assuming that we revolt to Slavery on turn 36 when the Settler is in transit to the Canopus site.

Assumptions for this scenario:
-We research Sailing after Writing, and then tech toward Monarchy (as suggested by azzaman originally).
-We build a 2nd exploratory (4th total) WB in Sirius after the Library.
-Canopus' first build is a WB for one of the fish tiles.
-We will want a Granary in Canopus relatively soon to aid whipping.

The scenario:

36:
* Set Lord Parkin to chop
* REVOLT to Slavery
37: No Action
38:
* Writing complete. Set research to Sailing
* Switch build to Library.
* Warrior complete. Garrisons Sirius
* Found Canopus at city site 'C'.
* Canopus works a Flood Plain and builds a WB
* Lord Parkin's chop complete.
39: Lord Parkin moves 1W to Gold Hill
40: Worker (Lord Parkin) starts Road
41:
*Library complete, start WB
*Road complete, Gold connected to Sirius.
42: Lord Parkin moves to Gold Hill 1SE of Canopus (2 turns to move).
43:
*Sailing complete, start Mysticism
*Sirius grows to pop 5, works 2 Fish, 2 Gold Hills, Forested Silk tiles.
*Borders of Canopus expand
*Fog-busting Warrior (Ceres?) moves to Sirius (3 turns)
44:
*Canopus grows to pop 2.
*Whip WB in Canopus > overflow hammers to Granary
*Lord Parkin starts mining Gold Hill SE of Canopus.
45:
*WB done in Sirius start Galley
*WB done in Canopus, moves to Fish
*Mysticism complete, start Meditation.
46: WB improves Fish tile in Canopus, Canopus switches to working that tile.
47:
*Finish Meditation, Start Priesthood.
*Gold mine done in Canopus
48: Worker free to move to new tile
49:
*Priesthood done, start Monarchy
*Canopus grows to pop 2, works Fish and Gold Hill
50: No Action? (Worker?)
51:
*Sirius grow to pop 6, runs Scientist
*Galley done in Sirius, start Settler?
(Monarchy will be done on turn 58)

One benefit of this plan is that the galley is completed on the same turn Sirius grows to the happy cap. We could then build a Settler or additional Worker to colonize the neighboring island so as to prevent us growing past the cap until we've researched Monarchy and have HR available. We could also send a Warrior by the galley to the neighboring island to scout for city sites while the Settler is being built. Potentially, we could discover Buddhism as well to help with happiness. On the other hand, we might want to know if we have Iron available sooner than post-Monarchy.

I don't know if I favor this approach yet. We certainly would benefit from information from exploring WBs. I just thought I would play this out and see how it looked.

Trystero said:

assuming that we whip on turn 36 when the Settler is in transit to the Canopus site.

Click to expand...

Change that to revolt and we have a party I saw it and thought we were whipping in the capital for a second.

champinoman said:

Change that to revolt and we have a party I saw it and thought we were whipping in the capital for a second.

Click to expand...

Whoops! Yes, that's what I meant. It's changed now.

I was thinking some more about a post-Sailing Monarchy beeline. One other compelling reason to raise our happy cap now rather than pursue say IW or Math: Sirius has 4 riverside grassland tiles (+1C). Since we are Financial, if we build a cottage on those tiles we automatically generate +3C on each. So, I reason we would want to be able work those tiles (and run scientists) as soon as possible. Running HR seems like the easiest way to get to 10-12 in the short term.

This is not to say locating a strategic resource like Iron isn't also important, but I think being on an island gives us the luxury of delaying a military buildup somewhat.

Edit: An argument against this approach:

We need to REX, not work cottages right now. Sirius will be busy building Settlers and Workers, and thus won't grow very much anyway. The whip can be used to deal with happiness issues. Also, at pop 6 we would be at the health, as well as happiness, cap. While unhealthiness isn't as detrimental as unhappiness, it is still unlikely we'd get Sirius to pop 10-12 in the short term.

I mentioned that about the Cottages on the rivers and no one seemed to like it at all.

AlphaShard said:

I mentioned that about the Cottages on the rivers and no one seemed to like it at all.

Click to expand...

I don't remember that discussion, but perhaps people thought cottages were premature at the time? Since we are Financial, cottages would seem like a good thing to build and develop. With all those riverside grasslands and the gold mines, Sirius looks to be a good commerce/research capital. Even if we prioritize expansion, we need to pay for it somehow.

Trystero said:

I don't remember that discussion, but perhaps people thought cottages were premature at the time? Since we are Financial, cottages would seem like a good thing to build and develop. With all those riverside grasslands and the gold mines, Sirius looks to be a good commerce/research capital. Even if we prioritize expansion, we need to pay for it somehow.

Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was thinking and saying but Azzaman felt that after the Gold mines we should focus on other things. The worker I mean anyways, we will need another worker for this island. No reason we shouldn't follow the 1.5 rule.

Well, there is no point in building cottages (except empty worker turns) until we can actually work them, I suppose was his point. This gets back to the happiness/health issue I raised above.

We could farm the grasslands to run more specialists, I suppose. But that requires Caste System and still runs into the issue.

I'm thinking the gold we connect to Sirius for happiness could end up being the one near Canopus. If we build a road on the gold square next to Canopus, and we've researched Sailing, then we get access to that gold in the capital, right?

That could save us from either wasting worker turns walking back and forth, or delaying the Canopus gold. The worker has much more to do at Canopus than Sirius, as we're at our happy cap with 2 fish 2 gold and 2 scientists anyway.

It may even be time to get a religon if we make our way to monarchy after sailing were bound to get one of them since no one else has gotten a religon. Am I right in thinking we have the tech edge right now by being number one in GNP?

Turn 29 - 2840 BC

Worker finished chop but is still red so can't do anything. Ended turn.

Irgy said:

I'm thinking the gold we connect to Sirius for happiness could end up being the one near Canopus. If we build a road on the gold square next to Canopus, and we've researched Sailing, then we get access to that gold in the capital, right?

That could save us from either wasting worker turns walking back and forth, or delaying the Canopus gold. The worker has much more to do at Canopus than Sirius, as we're at our happy cap with 2 fish 2 gold and 2 scientists anyway.

Click to expand...

I haven't played this out, but not building the road on the gold hill W of Sirius means the gold mine in Canopus would be completed about 2 turns earlier (turn 45), correct? He'd still have to build the road (1 turn?). That means the gold in Canopus would be hooked up no sooner than turn 46. In the plan I laid out Sirius would grow to pop 5 on turn 43, so we'd have happiness issues for a few turns, unless we ran a scientist instead of working the Forested Silk, or moved the warrior to Sirius. I decided to work the Silk to get to pop 6 as soon as possible, but perhaps that's sub-optimal. As I said, the micro I laid out wasn't necessariy the best plan possible, just a starting point for discussions.

AlphaShard said:

It may even be time to get a religon if we make our way to monarchy after sailing were bound to get one of them since no one else has gotten a religon. Am I right in thinking we have the tech edge right now by being number one in GNP?

Click to expand...

I don't know that getting a religion is a sure thing in the plan I presented, since Buddhism is the only one that would be an option. It does, however, lie on the shortest path to Monarchy, so someone else with similar ideas might get there first.

Ah I though Mono was on the path as well. No one has gotten it yet though so it is still up in the air.

i started to write something in the micro thread, then when i came to post it here i see the discussion has moved beyond me... going to go run and then have a clear read, then will post thoughts. Lots of good stuff today!